I think we've both stated our side and aren't too far from agreement on most things anyway, but on this bit I do want to make a point.

The reason I try to be positive and try to think things through before reacting is that the experience of going to Palace is a much better one when the crowd are positive and together.

The admin times, where everyone is brought together and supports the club unconditionally, are some of my fondest memories. Watching the history DVD and seeing the likes of Ambrose, Derry and Hill talking about the togetherness they felt with the fans and how that took the pressure off to some degree - and allowed the team to express themselves without fear.

I would like that every game - instead of the endless whining and ranting that is so counter productive. That's why away games are becoming more popular with many Palace fans now - genereally the type of fan that goes away regualrly is the sort of fan who values support over entitelement.

You aren't the first to disagree with me on the "enteratinement" idea - pretty much everyone else does as well!

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