Israel / Palestine
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 Kermit8  Hevon 29 Jul 14 5.14pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 2.43pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 9.30pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 28 Jul 2014 9.07pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 8.12pm
Stirling - Danny's 'Jon Snow' link is well worth watching. Only three minutes.
It just shows the injustice of war. How is our inaction on children dying in this action any different to Syrian children dying? Was hardly anyone supporting anything being done about that? The innocent die when guns or shells are fired.....That will always be the case.
It's a cop out. They are waging war on a very weak adversary in comparison and for every Hamas fighter they get with their guesswork like shelling it seems to be twenty or more civilians die of which a significant amount are very young. Israel are not under threat of invasion from Gaza or from weapons of mass destruction. So why are they being so belligerent and violent against a people where the vast majority of whom who have become casualties are no real danger to them? Unless 8 year olds having the cheek to play on a swing constitutes a violent anti-Semitic anti-Israeli attack so deserves a shelling. It really is one of many inexcusable war crimes committed. And they do the same thing every few years now. It's an inward looking almost-rogue state on that side of The Med now. Self-destructive even perhaps. Israel is fast losing the goodwill it may have expected from various parts of the globe. Israel must exist but it seriously needs to remodel and rebrand itself before it pushes even the US too far.
Imagine you weren't born into a comfortable life in Devon and you lived in South Israel where throughout your life, those peace loving Palestinians had lobbed rockets at you, kidnapped your family and friends and had a constitution that stated they wanted you dead. What would your thoughts be? Given that you were born in Israel and of are just going about your life, would you be happy with the situation? Would you like the threat of death or kidnap hanging over you and your family? What would up do in the second intifada when peace loving Palestinians were urging their young to going into buses and shopping centres and blowing themselves, and everyone around, them indiscriminately? Israel has been clear. The rocket attacks stop and the tunnels are destroyed. Then there will be talks. Hamas cares not for its people. It cares for power. Why did Hamas stop it's own ceasefire a few days ago? If it cared about its people it would do more to stop Israeli bombing.
The sensible thing to do. Reject the overwhelming immorality of it all. But then again if I were some fella who genuinely thinks he has a God given right to possess and dominate the land I would applauding any casualty results on the other side, no matter how brutal, that meant more power for Israel. But then that would make me a fvcked-up power crazy cvnt that doesn't deserve to breathe on this planet let alone reside on it.
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matt_himself  Matataland 29 Jul 14 6.00pm |
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Quote Kermit8 at 29 Jul 2014 5.14pm
Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 2.43pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 9.30pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 28 Jul 2014 9.07pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 8.12pm
Stirling - Danny's 'Jon Snow' link is well worth watching. Only three minutes.
It just shows the injustice of war. How is our inaction on children dying in this action any different to Syrian children dying? Was hardly anyone supporting anything being done about that? The innocent die when guns or shells are fired.....That will always be the case.
It's a cop out. They are waging war on a very weak adversary in comparison and for every Hamas fighter they get with their guesswork like shelling it seems to be twenty or more civilians die of which a significant amount are very young. Israel are not under threat of invasion from Gaza or from weapons of mass destruction. So why are they being so belligerent and violent against a people where the vast majority of whom who have become casualties are no real danger to them? Unless 8 year olds having the cheek to play on a swing constitutes a violent anti-Semitic anti-Israeli attack so deserves a shelling. It really is one of many inexcusable war crimes committed. And they do the same thing every few years now. It's an inward looking almost-rogue state on that side of The Med now. Self-destructive even perhaps. Israel is fast losing the goodwill it may have expected from various parts of the globe. Israel must exist but it seriously needs to remodel and rebrand itself before it pushes even the US too far.
Imagine you weren't born into a comfortable life in Devon and you lived in South Israel where throughout your life, those peace loving Palestinians had lobbed rockets at you, kidnapped your family and friends and had a constitution that stated they wanted you dead. What would your thoughts be? Given that you were born in Israel and of are just going about your life, would you be happy with the situation? Would you like the threat of death or kidnap hanging over you and your family? What would up do in the second intifada when peace loving Palestinians were urging their young to going into buses and shopping centres and blowing themselves, and everyone around, them indiscriminately? Israel has been clear. The rocket attacks stop and the tunnels are destroyed. Then there will be talks. Hamas cares not for its people. It cares for power. Why did Hamas stop it's own ceasefire a few days ago? If it cared about its people it would do more to stop Israeli bombing.
The sensible thing to do. Reject the overwhelming immorality of it all. But then again if I were some fella who genuinely thinks he has a God given right to possess and dominate the land I would applauding any casualty results on the other side, no matter how brutal, that meant more power for Israel. But then that would make me a fvcked-up power crazy cvnt that doesn't deserve to breathe on this planet let alone reside on it. The above is rich in emotion but doesn't really answer my question. Saying about 'growing oranges' is very patronising to those Israelis born in the south of Israel, who have known no different than life there. I personally think your outlook would be different if or had been born there and lived there, without the comforts and comparable serenity of an English county life.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Oliver Bodega Bay 29 Jul 14 6.54pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 4.24pm
Have a look at the history of Palestine and Israel. A lot of Palestinians were happy to sell their land to Jewish settlers pre and post 1948. The version being provided is too simplistic. This is, like the Balkans in the 1990's, a conflict we will never truly understand as we don't love there nor are really a part of it.
I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like. |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 29 Jul 14 7.03pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 6.00pm
Quote Kermit8 at 29 Jul 2014 5.14pm
Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 2.43pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 9.30pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 28 Jul 2014 9.07pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 8.12pm
Stirling - Danny's 'Jon Snow' link is well worth watching. Only three minutes.
It just shows the injustice of war. How is our inaction on children dying in this action any different to Syrian children dying? Was hardly anyone supporting anything being done about that? The innocent die when guns or shells are fired.....That will always be the case.
It's a cop out. They are waging war on a very weak adversary in comparison and for every Hamas fighter they get with their guesswork like shelling it seems to be twenty or more civilians die of which a significant amount are very young. Israel are not under threat of invasion from Gaza or from weapons of mass destruction. So why are they being so belligerent and violent against a people where the vast majority of whom who have become casualties are no real danger to them? Unless 8 year olds having the cheek to play on a swing constitutes a violent anti-Semitic anti-Israeli attack so deserves a shelling. It really is one of many inexcusable war crimes committed. And they do the same thing every few years now. It's an inward looking almost-rogue state on that side of The Med now. Self-destructive even perhaps. Israel is fast losing the goodwill it may have expected from various parts of the globe. Israel must exist but it seriously needs to remodel and rebrand itself before it pushes even the US too far.
Imagine you weren't born into a comfortable life in Devon and you lived in South Israel where throughout your life, those peace loving Palestinians had lobbed rockets at you, kidnapped your family and friends and had a constitution that stated they wanted you dead. What would your thoughts be? Given that you were born in Israel and of are just going about your life, would you be happy with the situation? Would you like the threat of death or kidnap hanging over you and your family? What would up do in the second intifada when peace loving Palestinians were urging their young to going into buses and shopping centres and blowing themselves, and everyone around, them indiscriminately? Israel has been clear. The rocket attacks stop and the tunnels are destroyed. Then there will be talks. Hamas cares not for its people. It cares for power. Why did Hamas stop it's own ceasefire a few days ago? If it cared about its people it would do more to stop Israeli bombing.
The sensible thing to do. Reject the overwhelming immorality of it all. But then again if I were some fella who genuinely thinks he has a God given right to possess and dominate the land I would applauding any casualty results on the other side, no matter how brutal, that meant more power for Israel. But then that would make me a fvcked-up power crazy cvnt that doesn't deserve to breathe on this planet let alone reside on it. The above is rich in emotion but doesn't really answer my question. Saying about 'growing oranges' is very patronising to those Israelis born in the south of Israel, who have known no different than life there. I personally think your outlook would be different if or had been born there and lived there, without the comforts and comparable serenity of an English county life.
My answer, which is what I was getting at, is that to be able to sleep at night because of the above, if I were a rational thinking Israeli and not a zealot, I would have moved. My family's wellbeing would override anything else and I would not want to be the cause, indirect or direct, of that kind of bloodshed in my name. The people who stay choose to. If it is not on stolen land then good luck to them. If it is then, well, at best they are being irresponsible parents. At worst, religious bigots of the very bad kind. Edited by Kermit8 (29 Jul 2014 7.05pm)
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| davidpercival Croydon 29 Jul 14 7.03pm |
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So as long as people accept that Israel have thew right to occupy another country for decades and do not raise a finger to oppose them Israel in their infinite kindness will not blow up hundreds of children. What nice guys. The lie that this is about dealing with a few "militants" is finally exposed today when Israel destroyed Gaza's only power station. How is that supposed to defend Israel? it is about smashing every last bit of opposition to their land grabbing. Sanctions are imposed against Russia because of an accidental shooting down of a plane that killed nearly 300 people. Israel over the last three weeks has killed thre times that fisgue of civilians yet any mention of boycotting Israel is greeted wioth horror. How do you defenders of Israel sleep at night? Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 4.27pm
Quote ghosteagle at 29 Jul 2014 4.08pm
Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 2.43pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 9.30pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 28 Jul 2014 9.07pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 8.12pm
Stirling - Danny's 'Jon Snow' link is well worth watching. Only three minutes.
It just shows the injustice of war. How is our inaction on children dying in this action any different to Syrian children dying? Was hardly anyone supporting anything being done about that? The innocent die when guns or shells are fired.....That will always be the case.
It's a cop out. They are waging war on a very weak adversary in comparison and for every Hamas fighter they get with their guesswork like shelling it seems to be twenty or more civilians die of which a significant amount are very young. Israel are not under threat of invasion from Gaza or from weapons of mass destruction. So why are they being so belligerent and violent against a people where the vast majority of whom who have become casualties are no real danger to them? Unless 8 year olds having the cheek to play on a swing constitutes a violent anti-Semitic anti-Israeli attack so deserves a shelling. It really is one of many inexcusable war crimes committed. And they do the same thing every few years now. It's an inward looking almost-rogue state on that side of The Med now. Self-destructive even perhaps. Israel is fast losing the goodwill it may have expected from various parts of the globe. Israel must exist but it seriously needs to remodel and rebrand itself before it pushes even the US too far.
Imagine you weren't born into a comfortable life in Devon and you lived in South Israel where throughout your life, those peace loving Palestinians had lobbed rockets at you, kidnapped your family and friends and had a constitution that stated they wanted you dead. What would your thoughts be? Given that you were born in Israel and of are just going about your life, would you be happy with the situation? Would you like the threat of death or kidnap hanging over you and your family? What would up do in the second intifada when peace loving Palestinians were urging their young to going into buses and shopping centres and blowing themselves, and everyone around, them indiscriminately? Israel has been clear. The rocket attacks stop and the tunnels are destroyed. Then there will be talks. Hamas cares not for its people. It cares for power. Why did Hamas stop it's own ceasefire a few days ago? If it cared about its people it would do more to stop Israeli bombing.
Nice story, but deceptive and misleading. Most importantly you missed out the first chapter where you steal the Palestinians land and kill their children before fencing them in. And Israel has been very clear. It is determined to smash the people of Palestine until they refute their claim to their own land.
So back to you - do you think Hamas really cares for its people or really cares about power?
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| Stirlingsays Online 29 Jul 14 7.08pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 4.57pm
I can completely understand why Palestinians would be pissed off and angry. I can't understand why think it is in their interests to have Hamas as their government. Hamas appears only to be interested in its own power, not stopping the bloodshed.
We are simply seeing what happens when the 'hard men' are in power on both sides. Sure they kill each other....Though Hamas will be suffering more.....But innocents will die more. And it is a tragedy......And it's spot on about Hamas.....They won't ever lose face to save their own children and they are committed to the murder of all Jews. Supporting them or their actions is similar to supporting ISIS or the Nazis. If the IDF destroyed my home (though I would have looked to leave Gaza in 2006) I would be fighting them....I understand that. However, only the uneducated, brainwashed or extremist/anti semite (though I accept some are radicalized by hopelessness) support the constitutional aims of Hamas.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| matt_himself Matataland 29 Jul 14 7.16pm |
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Quote Kermit8 at 29 Jul 2014 7.03pm
Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 6.00pm
Quote Kermit8 at 29 Jul 2014 5.14pm
Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 2.43pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 9.30pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 28 Jul 2014 9.07pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 8.12pm
Stirling - Danny's 'Jon Snow' link is well worth watching. Only three minutes.
It just shows the injustice of war. How is our inaction on children dying in this action any different to Syrian children dying? Was hardly anyone supporting anything being done about that? The innocent die when guns or shells are fired.....That will always be the case.
It's a cop out. They are waging war on a very weak adversary in comparison and for every Hamas fighter they get with their guesswork like shelling it seems to be twenty or more civilians die of which a significant amount are very young. Israel are not under threat of invasion from Gaza or from weapons of mass destruction. So why are they being so belligerent and violent against a people where the vast majority of whom who have become casualties are no real danger to them? Unless 8 year olds having the cheek to play on a swing constitutes a violent anti-Semitic anti-Israeli attack so deserves a shelling. It really is one of many inexcusable war crimes committed. And they do the same thing every few years now. It's an inward looking almost-rogue state on that side of The Med now. Self-destructive even perhaps. Israel is fast losing the goodwill it may have expected from various parts of the globe. Israel must exist but it seriously needs to remodel and rebrand itself before it pushes even the US too far.
Imagine you weren't born into a comfortable life in Devon and you lived in South Israel where throughout your life, those peace loving Palestinians had lobbed rockets at you, kidnapped your family and friends and had a constitution that stated they wanted you dead. What would your thoughts be? Given that you were born in Israel and of are just going about your life, would you be happy with the situation? Would you like the threat of death or kidnap hanging over you and your family? What would up do in the second intifada when peace loving Palestinians were urging their young to going into buses and shopping centres and blowing themselves, and everyone around, them indiscriminately? Israel has been clear. The rocket attacks stop and the tunnels are destroyed. Then there will be talks. Hamas cares not for its people. It cares for power. Why did Hamas stop it's own ceasefire a few days ago? If it cared about its people it would do more to stop Israeli bombing.
The sensible thing to do. Reject the overwhelming immorality of it all. But then again if I were some fella who genuinely thinks he has a God given right to possess and dominate the land I would applauding any casualty results on the other side, no matter how brutal, that meant more power for Israel. But then that would make me a fvcked-up power crazy cvnt that doesn't deserve to breathe on this planet let alone reside on it. The above is rich in emotion but doesn't really answer my question. Saying about 'growing oranges' is very patronising to those Israelis born in the south of Israel, who have known no different than life there. I personally think your outlook would be different if or had been born there and lived there, without the comforts and comparable serenity of an English county life.
My answer, which is what I was getting at, is that to be able to sleep at night because of the above, if I were a rational thinking Israeli and not a zealot, I would have moved. My family's wellbeing would override anything else and I would not want to be the cause, indirect or direct, of that kind of bloodshed in my name. The people who stay choose to. If it is not on stolen land then good luck to them. If it is then, well, at best they are being irresponsible parents. At worst, religious bigots of the very bad kind. Edited by Kermit8 (29 Jul 2014 7.05pm) Yes, it is so easy to up sticks and move, isn't ot? So would have done the same in the eighties when Tebbit told people to get on their bikes and seek work elsewhere? Life ain't that simple, in my opinion.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| legaleagle 29 Jul 14 7.17pm |
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. Edited by legaleagle (29 Jul 2014 7.18pm)
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| matt_himself Matataland 29 Jul 14 7.19pm |
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Quote Kermit8 at 29 Jul 2014 7.03pm
Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 6.00pm
Quote Kermit8 at 29 Jul 2014 5.14pm
Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 2.43pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 9.30pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 28 Jul 2014 9.07pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Jul 2014 8.12pm
Stirling - Danny's 'Jon Snow' link is well worth watching. Only three minutes.
It just shows the injustice of war. How is our inaction on children dying in this action any different to Syrian children dying? Was hardly anyone supporting anything being done about that? The innocent die when guns or shells are fired.....That will always be the case.
It's a cop out. They are waging war on a very weak adversary in comparison and for every Hamas fighter they get with their guesswork like shelling it seems to be twenty or more civilians die of which a significant amount are very young. Israel are not under threat of invasion from Gaza or from weapons of mass destruction. So why are they being so belligerent and violent against a people where the vast majority of whom who have become casualties are no real danger to them? Unless 8 year olds having the cheek to play on a swing constitutes a violent anti-Semitic anti-Israeli attack so deserves a shelling. It really is one of many inexcusable war crimes committed. And they do the same thing every few years now. It's an inward looking almost-rogue state on that side of The Med now. Self-destructive even perhaps. Israel is fast losing the goodwill it may have expected from various parts of the globe. Israel must exist but it seriously needs to remodel and rebrand itself before it pushes even the US too far.
Imagine you weren't born into a comfortable life in Devon and you lived in South Israel where throughout your life, those peace loving Palestinians had lobbed rockets at you, kidnapped your family and friends and had a constitution that stated they wanted you dead. What would your thoughts be? Given that you were born in Israel and of are just going about your life, would you be happy with the situation? Would you like the threat of death or kidnap hanging over you and your family? What would up do in the second intifada when peace loving Palestinians were urging their young to going into buses and shopping centres and blowing themselves, and everyone around, them indiscriminately? Israel has been clear. The rocket attacks stop and the tunnels are destroyed. Then there will be talks. Hamas cares not for its people. It cares for power. Why did Hamas stop it's own ceasefire a few days ago? If it cared about its people it would do more to stop Israeli bombing.
The sensible thing to do. Reject the overwhelming immorality of it all. But then again if I were some fella who genuinely thinks he has a God given right to possess and dominate the land I would applauding any casualty results on the other side, no matter how brutal, that meant more power for Israel. But then that would make me a fvcked-up power crazy cvnt that doesn't deserve to breathe on this planet let alone reside on it. The above is rich in emotion but doesn't really answer my question. Saying about 'growing oranges' is very patronising to those Israelis born in the south of Israel, who have known no different than life there. I personally think your outlook would be different if or had been born there and lived there, without the comforts and comparable serenity of an English county life.
My answer, which is what I was getting at, is that to be able to sleep at night because of the above, if I were a rational thinking Israeli and not a zealot, I would have moved. My family's wellbeing would override anything else and I would not want to be the cause, indirect or direct, of that kind of bloodshed in my name. The people who stay choose to. If it is not on stolen land then good luck to them. If it is then, well, at best they are being irresponsible parents. At worst, religious bigots of the very bad kind. Edited by Kermit8 (29 Jul 2014 7.05pm) Double post.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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pefwin  Where you have to have an English ... 29 Jul 14 7.32pm |
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Quote ghosteagle at 29 Jul 2014 4.28pm
Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 4.24pm
Have a look at the history of Palestine and Israel. A lot of Palestinians were happy to sell their land to Jewish settlers pre and post 1948. The version being provided is too simplistic. This is, like the Balkans in the 1990's, a conflict we will never truly understand as we don't love there nor are really a part of it. So, i can't have a moral opinion on the murder of children unless i've lived in the country of the murderer. Weird. Does this apply to any other crimes or just the slaughter of the innocent?
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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| matt_himself Matataland 29 Jul 14 7.36pm |
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Quote pefwin at 29 Jul 2014 7.32pm
Quote ghosteagle at 29 Jul 2014 4.28pm
Quote matt_himself at 29 Jul 2014 4.24pm
Have a look at the history of Palestine and Israel. A lot of Palestinians were happy to sell their land to Jewish settlers pre and post 1948. The version being provided is too simplistic. This is, like the Balkans in the 1990's, a conflict we will never truly understand as we don't love there nor are really a part of it. So, i can't have a moral opinion on the murder of children unless i've lived in the country of the murderer. Weird. Does this apply to any other crimes or just the slaughter of the innocent?
I have really got to you, haven't I?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Palacetinian Surrey Fam 29 Jul 14 7.41pm |
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After blowing up the one and only power station in Gaza earlier today Israeli is now going for Gaza's one and only Catholic Church. Nice to see that a targeted military operation against the 'terror tunnels' is leaving no stone unturned! [Link] Even the Catholics will soon be supporting Hamas!
Supporting Crystal Palace since 19.45 on 29th August 1972 (approximately)! |
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