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March 29 2024 11.00am

Churchill was a prick

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 23 May 13 1.18pm

Quote Kermit8 at 23 May 2013 11.33am

Quote TheEagleOfSteel at 23 May 2013 10.08am

'Nice' people don't make good leaders in times of crisis. You need someone who is able to make tough decisions and follow them through. The world saw him as an unshakable character, a modern (at the time) British Bulldog.

I challenge you to name a single politician in today's government who could have pulled the country through such a horrific war. I wouldn't have faith in a single bloody one of them.


Gandhi? Iron will and a decent pleasant fellow by all accounts.

The blood of his followers is on his hands, every time the were beaten or killed whilst protesting and unable to fight back and protect themselves. The same applies to Martin Luther King, whos passive resistance meant plenty of black protesters being 'willingly' murdered, beaten, savaged and shot.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View reborn's Profile reborn 23 May 13 1.25pm Send a Private Message to reborn Add reborn as a friend

Dont feed the Troll people....

 


My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

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Catfish Flag Burgess Hill 23 May 13 2.30pm

Quote Kermit8 at 22 May 2013 8.41pm

You forgot about poisonous gas in Kashmir. War crimes stuff today.

Gotta forgive him all that for beating The Hun though.


Not true. Never happened.

 


Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 23 May 13 3.01pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote serial thriller at 22 May 2013 8.18pm

Had quite an intense with a mate of mine today about one of the great celebrated figures of this nation's political history.

I think I may have brought this up on here before but I've always held the view that Churchill is viewed as a great leader because he won. Had he lost, I believe a lot of questionable stuff the British did would have come out, but instead it's wiped under the carpet and we continue to moan about those nasty Germans with their concentration camps (an idea they knicked off us) and anti-Semitism (which was thriving in Britain in the 30s).

The clearest example of this for me is the Bengal Famine. Churchill, fearful that the Japs might invade northern India, decided rather than evacuate the natives, he would just stop sending them food and shelter (in the middle of a famine) leading to millions of deaths, some claim on a similar scale as the number of Jews killed in concentration camps. When asked about this, Churchill blamed them for 'breeding like rabbits'.

He also supported a Bill to sterilise the mentally disabled (I'm not making this up! [Link] a form of, err, eugenics.

So let's look at the evidence: a mass-murderer, who supported racial purification, but won a lot of people over because he was a good public speaker and adopted the role as figurehead of a nation.

Now who does that remind me of...

Anyone willing to defend him?

Edited by serial thriller (22 May 2013 8.18pm)

Excuse my language but what a load of utopian revolutionary liberal horse shyte. If I didn't think you meant every word, I would laugh my head off.

Churchill a mass murderer was he ? do me a favour, by the same logic so was Queen Victoria, Lord Nelson, Lord Wellington, and you may as well through Queen Elizabeth 1st and Bodicea into your cock eyed “ mass murderer” hat.

PS have you started an internship at the Grauniad.


 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 23 May 13 3.17pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Quote dannyh at 23 May 2013 3.01pm

Quote serial thriller at 22 May 2013 8.18pm

Had quite an intense with a mate of mine today about one of the great celebrated figures of this nation's political history.

I think I may have brought this up on here before but I've always held the view that Churchill is viewed as a great leader because he won. Had he lost, I believe a lot of questionable stuff the British did would have come out, but instead it's wiped under the carpet and we continue to moan about those nasty Germans with their concentration camps (an idea they knicked off us) and anti-Semitism (which was thriving in Britain in the 30s).

The clearest example of this for me is the Bengal Famine. Churchill, fearful that the Japs might invade northern India, decided rather than evacuate the natives, he would just stop sending them food and shelter (in the middle of a famine) leading to millions of deaths, some claim on a similar scale as the number of Jews killed in concentration camps. When asked about this, Churchill blamed them for 'breeding like rabbits'.

He also supported a Bill to sterilise the mentally disabled (I'm not making this up! [Link] a form of, err, eugenics.

So let's look at the evidence: a mass-murderer, who supported racial purification, but won a lot of people over because he was a good public speaker and adopted the role as figurehead of a nation.

Now who does that remind me of...

Anyone willing to defend him?

Edited by serial thriller (22 May 2013 8.18pm)

Excuse my language but what a load of utopian revolutionary liberal horse shyte. If I didn't think you meant every word, I would laugh my head off.

Churchill a mass murderer was he ? do me a favour, by the same logic so was Queen Victoria, Lord Nelson, Lord Wellington, and you may as well through Queen Elizabeth 1st and Bodicea into your cock eyed “ mass murderer” hat.

PS have you started an internship at the Grauniad.


Since when has daring to criticise a prominent member of the former establishment been 'revolutionary'?

If we're using that rationale, surely anyone who dares to criticise Attlee, Blair etc etc is equally utopian and revolutionary, no?

This attack has no liberal agenda. And to be honest, feel free to call me a utopian if I object to a man who freely permitted the unnecessary killing of millions of innocent lives.

I accept your argument that if I claim him to be a mass-murderer (which is perhaps a little exaggerated) I have to throw loads of leaders in to the mix, but f'ck it, we have no qualms calling Mao or Hitler a mass-murderer, and it wasn't as if they did their own dirty work.

I'll state it one last time. I believe ALL examples of killing innocent people indefensible. If that is a particularly revolutionary, utopian and liberal viewpoint to hold, then I'll be damned if I'm not a namby panby vegan Grauniad reading PC Marxist.

Edited by serial thriller (23 May 2013 3.19pm)

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 23 May 13 3.30pm

Many of Churchills views were not unusual at the time, and held by a very large section of the populace. After 1945 everyone was suddenly 'never into all of that eugenics' stuff (they were). Or antisemetic (they were) or viewed other races as lesser (they did).

You'd be hard pressed to find many people of that era who were, without looking at the fringe 'looney lefties' of their day.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 23 May 13 3.35pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 May 2013 3.30pm

Many of Churchills views were not unusual at the time, and held by a very large section of the populace. After 1945 everyone was suddenly 'never into all of that eugenics' stuff (they were). Or antisemetic (they were) or viewed other races as lesser (they did).

You'd be hard pressed to find many people of that era who were, without looking at the fringe 'looney lefties' of their day.


This is what pisses me off about this fashionable application of modern-day standards and mores to historical events and figures. Fair grinds my gears, it does.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View Johnny Eagles's Profile Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 23 May 13 3.36pm Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 May 2013 3.30pm

Many of Churchills views were not unusual at the time, and held by a very large section of the populace. After 1945 everyone was suddenly 'never into all of that eugenics' stuff (they were). Or antisemetic (they were) or viewed other races as lesser (they did).

I still do!

The English are quite simply the most civilised people God was ever clever enough to put in charge of the world.

 


...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 23 May 13 3.43pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote serial thriller at 23 May 2013 3.17pm

Quote dannyh at 23 May 2013 3.01pm

Quote serial thriller at 22 May 2013 8.18pm

Had quite an intense with a mate of mine today about one of the great celebrated figures of this nation's political history.

I think I may have brought this up on here before but I've always held the view that Churchill is viewed as a great leader because he won. Had he lost, I believe a lot of questionable stuff the British did would have come out, but instead it's wiped under the carpet and we continue to moan about those nasty Germans with their concentration camps (an idea they knicked off us) and anti-Semitism (which was thriving in Britain in the 30s).

The clearest example of this for me is the Bengal Famine. Churchill, fearful that the Japs might invade northern India, decided rather than evacuate the natives, he would just stop sending them food and shelter (in the middle of a famine) leading to millions of deaths, some claim on a similar scale as the number of Jews killed in concentration camps. When asked about this, Churchill blamed them for 'breeding like rabbits'.

He also supported a Bill to sterilise the mentally disabled (I'm not making this up! [Link] a form of, err, eugenics.

So let's look at the evidence: a mass-murderer, who supported racial purification, but won a lot of people over because he was a good public speaker and adopted the role as figurehead of a nation.

Now who does that remind me of...

Anyone willing to defend him?

Edited by serial thriller (22 May 2013 8.18pm)

Excuse my language but what a load of utopian revolutionary liberal horse shyte. If I didn't think you meant every word, I would laugh my head off.

Churchill a mass murderer was he ? do me a favour, by the same logic so was Queen Victoria, Lord Nelson, Lord Wellington, and you may as well through Queen Elizabeth 1st and Bodicea into your cock eyed “ mass murderer” hat.

PS have you started an internship at the Grauniad.


Since when has daring to criticise a prominent member of the former establishment been 'revolutionary'?

If not revolutionary then certainly anti establishment.

If we're using that rationale, surely anyone who dares to criticise Attlee, Blair etc etc is equally utopian and revolutionary, no?

Maybe unrealistic idealist would have been a better term

This attack has no liberal agenda not much . And to be honest, feel free to call me a utopian if I object to a man who freely permitted the unnecessary killing of millions of innocent lives.

Absurd claim. The real reason for the famine was the fall of Burma to the Japanese, Churchill was merely indifferent to there plight as we needed the shipping for the landings in Italy. Certainly he felt they could help themselves more, Churchill was concerned about the humanitarian catastrophe taking place there, and he pushed for whatever famine relief efforts India itself could provide; they simply weren't adequate. Something like three million people died in Bengal and other parts of southern India as a result. We might even say that Churchill indirectly broke the Bengal famine by appointing as Viceroy Field Marshal Wavell, who mobilized the military to transport food and aid to the stricken regions (something that hadn't occurred to anyone, apparently).”

I accept your argument that if I claim him to be a mass-murderer (which is perhaps a little exaggerated) I have to throw loads of leaders in to the mix, but f'ck it, we have no qualms calling Mao or Hitler a mass-murderer, and it wasn't as if they did their own dirty work.

So now Churchill is on a par with Mao and Hitler, what ever you are smoking....STOP

I'll state it one last time. I believe ALL examples of killing innocent people indefensible. If that is a particularly revolutionary, utopian and liberal viewpoint to hold, then I'll be damned if I'm not a namby panby vegan Grauniad reading PC Marxist.

In war time sh1t happens, sometimes it's very bad sh1t, but to look on those acts through peac time eyes from the comfort of 21st Century is .... well.. daft really.

I will remember namby panby vegan though for your next rant. I like it.

Edited by serial thriller (23 May 2013 3.19pm)


 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 23 May 13 3.45pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Well done, Danny.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 23 May 13 3.53pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

I really despair of disrespectful and ungrateful morons such as the OP.

If it weren't for Winston, we'd be sucking sauerkraut and wearing leather shorts in a country that would make North Korea look like Amsterdam.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 23 May 13 4.06pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Quote dannyh at 23 May 2013 3.43pm

Quote serial thriller at 23 May 2013 3.17pm

Quote dannyh at 23 May 2013 3.01pm

Quote serial thriller at 22 May 2013 8.18pm

Had quite an intense with a mate of mine today about one of the great celebrated figures of this nation's political history.

I think I may have brought this up on here before but I've always held the view that Churchill is viewed as a great leader because he won. Had he lost, I believe a lot of questionable stuff the British did would have come out, but instead it's wiped under the carpet and we continue to moan about those nasty Germans with their concentration camps (an idea they knicked off us) and anti-Semitism (which was thriving in Britain in the 30s).

The clearest example of this for me is the Bengal Famine. Churchill, fearful that the Japs might invade northern India, decided rather than evacuate the natives, he would just stop sending them food and shelter (in the middle of a famine) leading to millions of deaths, some claim on a similar scale as the number of Jews killed in concentration camps. When asked about this, Churchill blamed them for 'breeding like rabbits'.

He also supported a Bill to sterilise the mentally disabled (I'm not making this up! [Link] a form of, err, eugenics.

So let's look at the evidence: a mass-murderer, who supported racial purification, but won a lot of people over because he was a good public speaker and adopted the role as figurehead of a nation.

Now who does that remind me of...

Anyone willing to defend him?

Edited by serial thriller (22 May 2013 8.18pm)

Excuse my language but what a load of utopian revolutionary liberal horse shyte. If I didn't think you meant every word, I would laugh my head off.

Churchill a mass murderer was he ? do me a favour, by the same logic so was Queen Victoria, Lord Nelson, Lord Wellington, and you may as well through Queen Elizabeth 1st and Bodicea into your cock eyed “ mass murderer” hat.

PS have you started an internship at the Grauniad.


Since when has daring to criticise a prominent member of the former establishment been 'revolutionary'?

If not revolutionary then certainly anti establishment.

If we're using that rationale, surely anyone who dares to criticise Attlee, Blair etc etc is equally utopian and revolutionary, no?

Maybe unrealistic idealist would have been a better term

This attack has no liberal agenda not much . And to be honest, feel free to call me a utopian if I object to a man who freely permitted the unnecessary killing of millions of innocent lives.

Absurd claim. The real reason for the famine was the fall of Burma to the Japanese, Churchill was merely indifferent to there plight as we needed the shipping for the landings in Italy. Certainly he felt they could help themselves more, Churchill was concerned about the humanitarian catastrophe taking place there, and he pushed for whatever famine relief efforts India itself could provide; they simply weren't adequate. Something like three million people died in Bengal and other parts of southern India as a result. We might even say that Churchill indirectly broke the Bengal famine by appointing as Viceroy Field Marshal Wavell, who mobilized the military to transport food and aid to the stricken regions (something that hadn't occurred to anyone, apparently).”

I accept your argument that if I claim him to be a mass-murderer (which is perhaps a little exaggerated) I have to throw loads of leaders in to the mix, but f'ck it, we have no qualms calling Mao or Hitler a mass-murderer, and it wasn't as if they did their own dirty work.

So now Churchill is on a par with Mao and Hitler, what ever you are smoking....STOP

I'll state it one last time. I believe ALL examples of killing innocent people indefensible. If that is a particularly revolutionary, utopian and liberal viewpoint to hold, then I'll be damned if I'm not a namby panby vegan Grauniad reading PC Marxist.

In war time sh1t happens, sometimes it's very bad sh1t, but to look on those acts through peac time eyes from the comfort of 21st Century is .... well.. daft really.

I will remember namby panby vegan though for your next rant. I like it.

Edited by serial thriller (23 May 2013 3.19pm)



Thank God, I thought I was the only one who couldn't do Jamie's fancy-dan quoting thing haha.

I dunno if I can be arsed with this argument any more although I think it's raised some interesting questions. I may as well quite while I've only got one person threatening to beat me up.

One last point though. While I agree with Jamie that it can be dangerous to argue through our modern day moral lenses, when certain morals were more widely held back in the day (I made this point in my opening post, for those who weren't frothing at the mouth, screaming for their wives to bring in their array of weaponry and fervently tracking my IP adress so as to know where to send their e-sh*t), but that doesn't mean we should completely refrain from doing so.

By such a claim, we should view women's liberationalists and anti-slavery campaigners (two groups who I accept are still viewed as potential evils by some on here) as immoral for challenging their contemporary morality, while people like Hitler and Stalin, who actually carried out a lot of their policies with public backing, should be advocated. There has to be a balance, where too greater condemnation is tempered with historical understanding, but too greater acceptance is tempered by some level of moral ojectivity.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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