Anti-Homophobia Campaign-Good on The Palace

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The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 07 Feb 14 1.32pm
Quote Mapletree at 07 Feb 2014 1.08pm Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 1.00pm Quote Mapletree at 07 Feb 2014 12.54pm Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.23pm Quote Mapletree at 07 Feb 2014 12.14pm This is what their site says: Aim: to enable people to take action against prejudice and discrimination aimed at lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans (LGB&T) people in order to create welcoming and inclusive football environments. It seems it is just as aimed at grassroots as professional football I have no idea if it will work, I have no idea who is involved in thinking through what it does or why. I just know that people aren't really approaching the question with an open mind. And I love the idea that Palace as a club and bunch of supporters could go where others fear to tread. I for one could't care less what MillScum fans think about threads like this. Mind you, I also think that most LGBT people can stand up for themselves. But remember that most people in football are still pretty young and maybe not quite as confident as e.g. Tinhat. Which takes us back in that circular argument what prejudice and discrimation ?? How for LGB&T is football not a welcoming and inclusive environment ? This isn't a campaign its a goalless and vague and wooly mission statement Like I said earlier any equality campaign is laudable - this one though simply hasnt got a point or seemingly knows what its actually campaigning about. Right. I am pleased someone sees sense. I suggest you write to Fare (a worldwide network set up in 1999) to let them know that they are wasting their time. They should know that for the fourth year running they simply haven't thought it through. Apparently the reason they are bothering is that Football is the biggest sport in the world and a good vehicle for overcoming social exclusion. Probably better to focus on tiddlywinks first, bless them. And for all those people that think it's funny to have a dig at Brighton about gay stuff, this appears to come out of a debate at the Withdean in 2009 under the banner of the Justin (Fashanu) Campaign. So of course it's Brighton's problem and nothing to do with us. Dont be silly and get all hissy This campaign is targeted specifcally at discrimination in football is it not ??... and doesnt mention anything about social inclusion and football being a mechanism for change Not silly, not hissy. Just wouldn't want anyone to get the impression you have the faintest idea what you are talking about. This campaign is supported by, amongst others, Fare. That is a well established group with good contacts worldwide and appears well considered. It emerged from detailed debate. Very unlikely to be goalless and woolly. It is absolutely nothing to do with me and I didn't start this thread. But it is interesting how much interest it is generating. It made me do some research so I guess it is having the desired effect. But why do people have to damn it as an initiative without even considering that it was set up by people that probably do know what they are doing. If the above comments came from the Croydon Advertiser you would accuse it of lazy journalism. No - not a hissy or silly response at all As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014
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The Sash

Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 07 Feb 14 1.32pm

Quote Mapletree at 07 Feb 2014 1.08pm

Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 1.00pm

Quote Mapletree at 07 Feb 2014 12.54pm

Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.23pm

Quote Mapletree at 07 Feb 2014 12.14pm

This is what their site says:

Aim: to enable people to take action against prejudice and discrimination aimed at lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans (LGB&T) people in order to create welcoming and inclusive football environments.

It seems it is just as aimed at grassroots as professional football

I have no idea if it will work, I have no idea who is involved in thinking through what it does or why.

I just know that people aren't really approaching the question with an open mind. And I love the idea that Palace as a club and bunch of supporters could go where others fear to tread. I for one could't care less what MillScum fans think about threads like this.

Mind you, I also think that most LGBT people can stand up for themselves. But remember that most people in football are still pretty young and maybe not quite as confident as e.g. Tinhat.

Which takes us back in that circular argument what prejudice and discrimation ??

How for LGB&T is football not a welcoming and inclusive environment ?

This isn't a campaign its a goalless and vague and wooly mission statement

Like I said earlier any equality campaign is laudable - this one though simply hasnt got a point or seemingly knows what its actually campaigning about.

Right. I am pleased someone sees sense. I suggest you write to Fare (a worldwide network set up in 1999) to let them know that they are wasting their time. They should know that for the fourth year running they simply haven't thought it through.

Apparently the reason they are bothering is that Football is the biggest sport in the world and a good vehicle for overcoming social exclusion. Probably better to focus on tiddlywinks first, bless them.

And for all those people that think it's funny to have a dig at Brighton about gay stuff, this appears to come out of a debate at the Withdean in 2009 under the banner of the Justin (Fashanu) Campaign. So of course it's Brighton's problem and nothing to do with us.

Dont be silly and get all hissy

This campaign is targeted specifcally at discrimination in football is it not ??... and doesnt mention anything about social inclusion and football being a mechanism for change

Not silly, not hissy. Just wouldn't want anyone to get the impression you have the faintest idea what you are talking about. This campaign is supported by, amongst others, Fare. That is a well established group with good contacts worldwide and appears well considered. It emerged from detailed debate. Very unlikely to be goalless and woolly.

It is absolutely nothing to do with me and I didn't start this thread. But it is interesting how much interest it is generating. It made me do some research so I guess it is having the desired effect.

But why do people have to damn it as an initiative without even considering that it was set up by people that probably do know what they are doing.

If the above comments came from the Croydon Advertiser you would accuse it of lazy journalism.

No - not a hissy or silly response at all

As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 07 Feb 14 1.38pm
Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 1.28pm Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.34pm Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 12.28pm Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.02pm Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 11.56am Quote The Sash at 06 Feb 2014 7.59pm Quote Cucking Funt at 06 Feb 2014 7.52pm Self-righteous frothing and spluttering is always a joy to witness. We are into page 4 and still no tangibility to how gay people are discriminated against at football and by whom and even if they are what the f*** anyone's supposed to do about it. Its just another ill thought out knee jerk 'right on' campaign to a prejudice that isn't seemingly there or if it is it certainly unwarranted. What are these 11 clubs actually going to be doing ???? Edited by The Sash (06 Feb 2014 8.00pm) No sure whether you are looking for evidence of players being discriminate against that would hold up in an employment tribunal or evidence of large problem of homophobia. On the first point, there is no tangible evidence of homophobic discrimination that would hold up in an employment tribunal because there are no openly gay players to make those statements. So no evidence of a gay player/coach not being given a job or paid less because of their sexuality. But as Mapletree says the most obvious argument for a general problem of homophobia is the absences of openly gay players. It is an inductive argument so it does not necessarily show proof. It could be there are no gay footballers because for some strange reason Gay people don't play football. However the eight players who have discussed their sexuality with PFA but not openly came out would suggest other wise [Link] Don't believe they should have to come out I believe it is their personal business if they do or not. That decision though should not be based on whether they will receive abuse if they do come out. Edited by Ketteridge (07 Feb 2014 11.57am) Again - None of which is actually tangible though is it ? Is this campaign designed at making it easier for gay players to come out (which is kinda what I assume)..if it is then can it be really that naive to assume that they would want to do so - I would suspect for a myriad of reasons they really wouldnt want to Edited by The Sash (07 Feb 2014 12.03pm) That is my assumption also, along with making it easier for gay supporters. As I say Idon't think every/any gay footballer should be made to come out it is a personal choice and as you say a myriad reason why someone might not want to. But one of those factor in making that decision should not be the abuse a player will get for coming out or the effect it might have on their career. The tangible goal would be that a player can come out without having to take other people negative reactions into account which is a broad and difficult goal. Again though - easier for gay supportes how ????? So they don't have to listen to homophobic abuse or feel their sexuality is being judged What basic right are they being denied, how are they being prejudiced against, discriminated against - how ?? Players who have to hide there sexuality through fear or abuse or reaction are being dened the right to have a full life What do gay supporters want so much (nothing I suspect) that they are not getting now because of their sexuality ? How are they treated differently because of their sexuality ?? The fact the the Gay football network and Stonewall have supported similar campaigns implies that gay supporters want some action, although as Tinhat points out not all gay supporters feel action. What are they after I take not to feel harassed/intimidated at a football ground or simple to not feel that being LGBT is in some way wrong i.e. not to you gay this or that. Anything that is overtly discrimatory, prejudical and just plain old nasty is covered in legislation already so what do these campaigners want a football stadium and its crowd to become ?????Not sure if I'm right in saying but Homophobic abuse is not in itself consdered a crime but will be taken into account if a crime is committed. Not being obtuse for the sake of it - I just see this as pointless posturing, its not even ill thought out - it hasnt been thought out at all imho Simpering, empty political posturing from yet another group who percieve an oppressd minority that needs saving..even if that minority is often left scratching its head as to what from and why they need saving ? Might well be political posturing the only way we can see is what happen when homphobia does appear what action is taken.It does need more teeth than a few banners and t-shirts Everything from back pain sufferers to goat abusers seemingly has someone who can find a way that they are somehow denied 'rights' that arent bestowed on 99% of the poulation either - this is just another example.If you show me examples of where goat abuse are getting benefits and rights I don't then fine, but when I go to a football match or go to work I don't think I'm going to be judged or face abuse for talking about my partner or sexuality This campaign - Its just s stream of cliches sewn together with no real aim, no real goal and no concrete, physical actions to it..If its meant to raise awareness it surely has but most will consider it more bollocks and it would have been better if they had stayed schtumThe fact we are talking about it is positive most will carry on shouting exactly what they would have anyway but again if it has the slow drip drip effect of showing that it is not right to give some abuse because of their sexuality or percieved sexuality then it's working. Things like this piss me off no end because there are such inequalities in society that are based on racial background, gender, religion, sexuality, class and silly little whining piss ants like this devalue the campaigns and pushes against greater ills of sosiety and as you can see from some of the responses on here dont 'educate' or create a debate - they just turn people off with their whiny stupidity I would imagine that the stupid comments and attitudes existed before this campaign and thread not because of it. I would also say the the other inequalites are worth tacklng but not neccessarily in football remit, racism has been tackle sexism potentially Religon only for Rangers and Celtic, and we don't want to start a debate there Sash. Edited by The Sash (07 Feb 2014 12.48pm) Sorry to respond in red, would not normally do it as it looks rude but quite a few point responded to.Cheers Dont start the Rangers / Celtic thing off or we will be here til Tuesday As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014
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The Sash

Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 07 Feb 14 1.38pm

Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 1.28pm

Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.34pm

Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 12.28pm

Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.02pm

Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 11.56am

Quote The Sash at 06 Feb 2014 7.59pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 06 Feb 2014 7.52pm

Self-righteous frothing and spluttering is always a joy to witness.

We are into page 4 and still no tangibility to how gay people are discriminated against at football and by whom and even if they are what the f*** anyone's supposed to do about it.

Its just another ill thought out knee jerk 'right on' campaign to a prejudice that isn't seemingly there or if it is it certainly unwarranted.

What are these 11 clubs actually going to be doing ????

Edited by The Sash (06 Feb 2014 8.00pm)

No sure whether you are looking for evidence of players being discriminate against that would hold up in an employment tribunal or evidence of large problem of homophobia. On the first point, there is no tangible evidence of homophobic discrimination that would hold up in an employment tribunal because there are no openly gay players to make those statements. So no evidence of a gay player/coach not being given a job or paid less because of their sexuality.
But as Mapletree says the most obvious argument for a general problem of homophobia is the absences of openly gay players. It is an inductive argument so it does not necessarily show proof. It could be there are no gay footballers because for some strange reason Gay people don't play football.
However the eight players who have discussed their sexuality with PFA but not openly came out would suggest other wise
[Link]
Don't believe they should have to come out I believe it is their personal business if they do or not. That decision though should not be based on whether they will receive abuse if they do come out.

Edited by Ketteridge (07 Feb 2014 11.57am)

Again - None of which is actually tangible though is it ?

Is this campaign designed at making it easier for gay players to come out (which is kinda what I assume)..if it is then can it be really that naive to assume that they would want to do so - I would suspect for a myriad of reasons they really wouldnt want to

Edited by The Sash (07 Feb 2014 12.03pm)

That is my assumption also, along with making it easier for gay supporters. As I say Idon't think every/any gay footballer should be made to come out it is a personal choice and as you say a myriad reason why someone might not want to.
But one of those factor in making that decision should not be the abuse a player will get for coming out or the effect it might have on their career.
The tangible goal would be that a player can come out without having to take other people negative reactions into account which is a broad and difficult goal.

Again though - easier for gay supportes how ????? So they don't have to listen to homophobic abuse or feel their sexuality is being judged

What basic right are they being denied, how are they being prejudiced against, discriminated against - how ?? Players who have to hide there sexuality through fear or abuse or reaction are being dened the right to have a full life

What do gay supporters want so much (nothing I suspect) that they are not getting now because of their sexuality ? How are they treated differently because of their sexuality ?? The fact the the Gay football network and Stonewall have supported similar campaigns implies that gay supporters want some action, although as Tinhat points out not all gay supporters feel action. What are they after I take not to feel harassed/intimidated at a football ground or simple to not feel that being LGBT is in some way wrong i.e. not to you gay this or that.

Anything that is overtly discrimatory, prejudical and just plain old nasty is covered in legislation already so what do these campaigners want a football stadium and its crowd to become ?????Not sure if I'm right in saying but Homophobic abuse is not in itself consdered a crime but will be taken into account if a crime is committed.

Not being obtuse for the sake of it - I just see this as pointless posturing, its not even ill thought out - it hasnt been thought out at all imho

Simpering, empty political posturing from yet another group who percieve an oppressd minority that needs saving..even if that minority is often left scratching its head as to what from and why they need saving ?
Might well be political posturing the only way we can see is what happen when homphobia does appear what action is taken.It does need more teeth than a few banners and t-shirts
Everything from back pain sufferers to goat abusers seemingly has someone who can find a way that they are somehow denied 'rights' that arent bestowed on 99% of the poulation either - this is just another example.If you show me examples of where goat abuse are getting benefits and rights I don't then fine, but when I go to a football match or go to work I don't think I'm going to be judged or face abuse for talking about my partner or sexuality

This campaign - Its just s stream of cliches sewn together with no real aim, no real goal and no concrete, physical actions to it..If its meant to raise awareness it surely has but most will consider it more bollocks and it would have been better if they had stayed schtumThe fact we are talking about it is positive most will carry on shouting exactly what they would have anyway but again if it has the slow drip drip effect of showing that it is not right to give some abuse because of their sexuality or percieved sexuality then it's working.

Things like this piss me off no end because there are such inequalities in society that are based on racial background, gender, religion, sexuality, class and silly little whining piss ants like this devalue the campaigns and pushes against greater ills of sosiety and as you can see from some of the responses on here dont 'educate' or create a debate - they just turn people off with their whiny stupidity
I would imagine that the stupid comments and attitudes existed before this campaign and thread not because of it. I would also say the the other inequalites are worth tacklng but not neccessarily in football remit, racism has been tackle sexism potentially Religon only for Rangers and Celtic, and we don't want to start a debate there Sash.

Edited by The Sash (07 Feb 2014 12.48pm)

Sorry to respond in red, would not normally do it as it looks rude but quite a few point responded to.Cheers

Dont start the Rangers / Celtic thing off or we will be here til Tuesday

As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 07 Feb 14 1.43pm
Quote Kermit8 at 07 Feb 2014 12.16pm I think I fancy Tinhat. She's taken. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 07 Feb 14 1.43pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Feb 2014 12.16pm

I think I fancy Tinhat.

She's taken.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Palace_love_affair SE London 07 Feb 14 1.57pm
Quote bubble wrap at 06 Feb 2014 3.33pm Quote Eagles-Mad at 06 Feb 2014 3.17pm Quote Raven at 06 Feb 2014 3.15pm Quote Eagles-Mad at 06 Feb 2014 3.06pm Im not being funny why are gays getting all of this love and special treatment. Legalising Gay marriage, people in general accepting fruits exist, There taking the piss now they want even more lime light by getting into all this football lark. I suggest a campaign for those such as my self who are really offended by gays and certain ethic people who get everything done for them yet still play the victim in order to gain more and call anyone who disagrees with them a right wing thug. ITS BOLLOCKS, some people are so blinded by the fact the bandits are just doing it for more attention and praise from everyone. GAYS LOVE PUBLICITY!!!!! Homosexuality is a sin. THE BIBLE SAYS SO!!!! Yeah it's coming to something when you can't openly call a gay man a poof or a bender without the PC lobby taking umbrage. Next they'll be telling me I can't graffiti ethnic slurs on the black family's car across the road. Your just f*ing horrible how could you do that. Yeah, he knows they cant read.. Wouldn't worry, it's probably stolen anyway As for the homos, who cares?! As a character (ironically) in Bottom once said "It leaves more fanny for the rest of us" "We're the Holmesdale, We're the Holmesdale, We're the Holmesdale over here!!"**
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Palace_love_affair

SE London 07 Feb 14 1.57pm

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Quote bubble wrap at 06 Feb 2014 3.33pm

Quote Eagles-Mad at 06 Feb 2014 3.17pm

Quote Raven at 06 Feb 2014 3.15pm

Quote Eagles-Mad at 06 Feb 2014 3.06pm

Im not being funny why are gays getting all of this love and special treatment. Legalising Gay marriage, people in general accepting fruits exist, There taking the piss now they want even more lime light by getting into all this football lark. I suggest a campaign for those such as my self who are really offended by gays and certain ethic people who get everything done for them yet still play the victim in order to gain more and call anyone who disagrees with them a right wing thug. ITS BOLLOCKS, some people are so blinded by the fact the bandits are just doing it for more attention and praise from everyone. GAYS LOVE PUBLICITY!!!!! Homosexuality is a sin. THE BIBLE SAYS SO!!!!

Yeah it's coming to something when you can't openly call a gay man a poof or a bender without the PC lobby taking umbrage. Next they'll be telling me I can't graffiti ethnic slurs on the black family's car across the road.

Your just f***ing horrible how could you do that.

Yeah, he knows they cant read..

Wouldn't worry, it's probably stolen anyway

As for the homos, who cares?! As a character (ironically) in Bottom once said "It leaves more fanny for the rest of us"

"We're the Holmesdale, We're the Holmesdale, We're the Holmesdale over here!!"

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Kermit8 Hevon 07 Feb 14 2.02pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 07 Feb 2014 1.43pm Quote Kermit8 at 07 Feb 2014 12.16pm I think I fancy Tinhat. She's taken. Goddamn you and your unfeasibly swift pm's. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 07 Feb 14 2.02pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 07 Feb 2014 1.43pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Feb 2014 12.16pm

I think I fancy Tinhat.

She's taken.

Goddamn you and your unfeasibly swift pm's.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Mapletree Croydon 07 Feb 14 2.09pm
Quote Palace_love_affair at 07 Feb 2014 1.57pm Quote bubble wrap at 06 Feb 2014 3.33pm Quote Eagles-Mad at 06 Feb 2014 3.17pm Quote Raven at 06 Feb 2014 3.15pm Quote Eagles-Mad at 06 Feb 2014 3.06pm Im not being funny why are gays getting all of this love and special treatment. Legalising Gay marriage, people in general accepting fruits exist, There taking the piss now they want even more lime light by getting into all this football lark. I suggest a campaign for those such as my self who are really offended by gays and certain ethic people who get everything done for them yet still play the victim in order to gain more and call anyone who disagrees with them a right wing thug. ITS BOLLOCKS, some people are so blinded by the fact the bandits are just doing it for more attention and praise from everyone. GAYS LOVE PUBLICITY!!!!! Homosexuality is a sin. THE BIBLE SAYS SO!!!! Yeah it's coming to something when you can't openly call a gay man a poof or a bender without the PC lobby taking umbrage. Next they'll be telling me I can't graffiti ethnic slurs on the black family's car across the road. Your just f***ing horrible how could you do that. Yeah, he knows they cant read.. Wouldn't worry, it's probably stolen anyway As for the homos, who cares?! As a character (ironically) in Bottom once said "It leaves more fanny for the rest of us" You might want to check that with Tinhat. You may have to form an orderly queue as she seems to be in demand
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Mapletree

Croydon 07 Feb 14 2.09pm

Quote Palace_love_affair at 07 Feb 2014 1.57pm

Quote bubble wrap at 06 Feb 2014 3.33pm

Quote Eagles-Mad at 06 Feb 2014 3.17pm

Quote Raven at 06 Feb 2014 3.15pm

Quote Eagles-Mad at 06 Feb 2014 3.06pm

Your just f***ing horrible how could you do that.

Yeah, he knows they cant read..

Wouldn't worry, it's probably stolen anyway

As for the homos, who cares?! As a character (ironically) in Bottom once said "It leaves more fanny for the rest of us"

You might want to check that with Tinhat. You may have to form an orderly queue as she seems to be in demand

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paperhat croydon 07 Feb 14 2.14pm
Quote Tinhat at 06 Feb 2014 8.40pm As a lesbian myself I get really pissed off at tossers campaigning on behalf of me and actually creating an issue that isn't really there. If you are gay, so what, no different from being straight in terms of how people treat you unless you walk around advertising the fact that your gay. People are different,we have fat,thin,ginger,disabled,beautiful,ugly ect ect, is there going to be campaigns on their behalf?. As some have said, bringing attention and banging the drum about how unfair life is, will cause resentment. So please don't campaign on my behalf and don't get offended on my behalf either. I actually found the jokes on here quite funny. Talking of which Nike have just launched their first Lesbian trainers, they have an extra long tongue and you can get them off with one finger. As all forum users know, pictures please or it didn't happen. Clinton is Clinton. I have known him for a long time, I know his mother... Simon Jordan
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paperhat

croydon 07 Feb 14 2.14pm

Quote Tinhat at 06 Feb 2014 8.40pm

As a lesbian myself I get really pissed off at tossers campaigning on behalf of me and actually creating an issue that isn't really there. If you are gay, so what, no different from being straight in terms of how people treat you unless you walk around advertising the fact that your gay. People are different,we have fat,thin,ginger,disabled,beautiful,ugly ect ect, is there going to be campaigns on their behalf?.
As some have said, bringing attention and banging the drum about how unfair life is, will cause resentment.
So please don't campaign on my behalf and don't get offended on my behalf either. I actually found the jokes on here quite funny. Talking of which Nike have just launched their first Lesbian trainers, they have an extra long tongue and you can get them off with one finger.

As all forum users know, pictures please or it didn't happen.

Clinton is Clinton. I have known him for a long time, I know his mother... Simon Jordan

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npn Crowborough 07 Feb 14 2.37pm
OK, my last comments on the subject: People should not feel unable to come out because of abuse they'll receive - that's totally true, but there is absolutely no evidence that this is the case. The single openly gay English profession player has stated (in the BBC article I linked to earlier) that he received no abuse, also Thomas Hitzlsperger came out and received a largely supportive response. So the campaign is to prevent something which there is no evidence is happening - isn't that just a tiny bit odd? The idea that the percentage of gay males in the general populace is reflected in the likely number of secretly gay players is on dodgy ground at best - it's a testosterone fuelled sport, and there is likely to be a marked sway towards 'butch' participants - in the same way as 90% of the male population may be straight, but you wouldn't expect that figure to be reflected in the worlds of fashion, dance, ice skating, or ladies' hairdressing
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npn

Crowborough 07 Feb 14 2.37pm

OK, my last comments on the subject:

People should not feel unable to come out because of abuse they'll receive - that's totally true, but there is absolutely no evidence that this is the case. The single openly gay English profession player has stated (in the BBC article I linked to earlier) that he received no abuse, also Thomas Hitzlsperger came out and received a largely supportive response. So the campaign is to prevent something which there is no evidence is happening - isn't that just a tiny bit odd?

The idea that the percentage of gay males in the general populace is reflected in the likely number of secretly gay players is on dodgy ground at best - it's a testosterone fuelled sport, and there is likely to be a marked sway towards 'butch' participants - in the same way as 90% of the male population may be straight, but you wouldn't expect that figure to be reflected in the worlds of fashion, dance, ice skating, or ladies' hairdressing

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Southampton_Eagle At the after party 07 Feb 14 3.00pm
Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.34pm Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 12.28pm Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.02pm Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 11.56am Quote The Sash at 06 Feb 2014 7.59pm Quote Cucking Funt at 06 Feb 2014 7.52pm Self-righteous frothing and spluttering is always a joy to witness. We are into page 4 and still no tangibility to how gay people are discriminated against at football and by whom and even if they are what the f*** anyone's supposed to do about it. Its just another ill thought out knee jerk 'right on' campaign to a prejudice that isn't seemingly there or if it is it certainly unwarranted. What are these 11 clubs actually going to be doing ???? Edited by The Sash (06 Feb 2014 8.00pm) No sure whether you are looking for evidence of players being discriminate against that would hold up in an employment tribunal or evidence of large problem of homophobia. On the first point, there is no tangible evidence of homophobic discrimination that would hold up in an employment tribunal because there are no openly gay players to make those statements. So no evidence of a gay player/coach not being given a job or paid less because of their sexuality. But as Mapletree says the most obvious argument for a general problem of homophobia is the absences of openly gay players. It is an inductive argument so it does not necessarily show proof. It could be there are no gay footballers because for some strange reason Gay people don't play football. However the eight players who have discussed their sexuality with PFA but not openly came out would suggest other wise [Link] Don't believe they should have to come out I believe it is their personal business if they do or not. That decision though should not be based on whether they will receive abuse if they do come out. Edited by Ketteridge (07 Feb 2014 11.57am) Again - None of which is actually tangible though is it ? Is this campaign designed at making it easier for gay players to come out (which is kinda what I assume)..if it is then can it be really that naive to assume that they would want to do so - I would suspect for a myriad of reasons they really wouldnt want to Edited by The Sash (07 Feb 2014 12.03pm) That is my assumption also, along with making it easier for gay supporters. As I say Idon't think every/any gay footballer should be made to come out it is a personal choice and as you say a myriad reason why someone might not want to. But one of those factor in making that decision should not be the abuse a player will get for coming out or the effect it might have on their career. The tangible goal would be that a player can come out without having to take other people negative reactions into account which is a broad and difficult goal. Again though - easier for gay supportes how ????? What basic right are they being denied, how are they being prejudiced against, discriminated against - how ?? What do gay supporters want so much (nothing I suspect) that they are not getting now because of their sexuality ? How are they treated differently because of their sexuality ?? Anything that is overtly discrimatory, prejudical and just plain old nasty is covered in legislation already so what do these campaigners want a football stadium and its crowd to become ????? Not being obtuse for the sake of it - I just see this as pointless posturing, its not even ill thought out - it hasnt been thought out at all imho Simpering, empty political posturing from yet another group who percieve an oppressd minority that needs saving..even if that minority is often left scratching its head as to what from and why they need saving ? Everything from back pain sufferers to goat abusers seemingly has someone who can find a way that they are somehow denied 'rights' that arent bestowed on 99% of the poulation either - this is just another example. This campaign - Its just s stream of cliches sewn together with no real aim, no real goal and no concrete, physical actions to it..If its meant to raise awareness it surely has but most will consider it more bollocks and it would have been better if they had stayed schtum Things like this piss me off no end because there are such inequalities in society that are based on racial background, gender, religion, sexuality, class and silly little whining piss ants like this devalue the campaigns and pushes against greater ills of sosiety and as you can see from some of the responses on here dont 'educate' or create a debate - they just turn people off with their whiny stupidity Edited by The Sash (07 Feb 2014 12.48pm) Glory holes?
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Southampton_Eagle

At the after party 07 Feb 14 3.00pm

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Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.34pm

Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 12.28pm

Quote The Sash at 07 Feb 2014 12.02pm

Quote Ketteridge at 07 Feb 2014 11.56am

Quote The Sash at 06 Feb 2014 7.59pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 06 Feb 2014 7.52pm

Self-righteous frothing and spluttering is always a joy to witness.

We are into page 4 and still no tangibility to how gay people are discriminated against at football and by whom and even if they are what the f*** anyone's supposed to do about it.

Its just another ill thought out knee jerk 'right on' campaign to a prejudice that isn't seemingly there or if it is it certainly unwarranted.

What are these 11 clubs actually going to be doing ????

Edited by The Sash (06 Feb 2014 8.00pm)

Edited by Ketteridge (07 Feb 2014 11.57am)

Again - None of which is actually tangible though is it ?

Edited by The Sash (07 Feb 2014 12.03pm)

Again though - easier for gay supportes how ?????

What basic right are they being denied, how are they being prejudiced against, discriminated against - how ??

What do gay supporters want so much (nothing I suspect) that they are not getting now because of their sexuality ? How are they treated differently because of their sexuality ??

Anything that is overtly discrimatory, prejudical and just plain old nasty is covered in legislation already so what do these campaigners want a football stadium and its crowd to become ?????

Not being obtuse for the sake of it - I just see this as pointless posturing, its not even ill thought out - it hasnt been thought out at all imho

Everything from back pain sufferers to goat abusers seemingly has someone who can find a way that they are somehow denied 'rights' that arent bestowed on 99% of the poulation either - this is just another example.

Edited by The Sash (07 Feb 2014 12.48pm)

Glory holes?

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Superfly The sun always shines in Catford 07 Feb 14 3.10pm
Quote npn at 07 Feb 2014 2.37pm People should not feel unable to come out because of abuse they'll receive - that's totally true, but there is absolutely no evidence that this is the case. The single openly gay English profession player has stated (in the BBC article I linked to earlier) that he received no abuse, also Thomas Hitzlsperger came out and received a largely supportive response. So the campaign is to prevent something which there is no evidence is happening - isn't that just a tiny bit odd? If you seriously think that a gay league player wouldn't receive abuse then you are deluding yourself. They would, we all know it. And if a West Brom player was to announce it today then it would be us dishing out the abuse tomorrow. 100% guaranteed. Lend me a Tenor 31 May to 3 June 2017 John McIntosh Arts Centre London Oratory School SW6 1RX with Superfly in the chorus [Link]
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Superfly

The sun always shines in Catford 07 Feb 14 3.10pm

Quote npn at 07 Feb 2014 2.37pm

If you seriously think that a gay league player wouldn't receive abuse then you are deluding yourself. They would, we all know it. And if a West Brom player was to announce it today then it would be us dishing out the abuse tomorrow. 100% guaranteed.

Lend me a Tenor

31 May to 3 June 2017

John McIntosh Arts Centre
London Oratory School
SW6 1RX

with Superfly in the chorus
[Link]

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Gallery3 South Croydon 07 Feb 14 3.23pm
There is no reason why they should be afraid to come out if they are gay and want to be honest about it. Who someone sleeps with, providing they are adult and it is consensual, is their business. It harms no one else and is not the business of anyone else. Unbelievable that in this day and age there are still so many brainless bogots walking the streets - in fact it is terrifying! I imagine that the tupe of women most of those guys sleep with leave a lot to be desired - brainless bimbos with more tatoos than you can shake a stick at! Here comes the abuse (because you will be SO predictable).............................. Quote Seth at 05 Feb 2014 6.08pm Quote TomThePalaceFanatic at 05 Feb 2014 6.04pm Why should footballers come out? No reason, unless they're gay and they want to come out. Why shouldn't they?
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Gallery3

South Croydon 07 Feb 14 3.23pm

There is no reason why they should be afraid to come out if they are gay and want to be honest about it. Who someone sleeps with, providing they are adult and it is consensual, is their business. It harms no one else and is not the business of anyone else.

Unbelievable that in this day and age there are still so many brainless bogots walking the streets - in fact it is terrifying! I imagine that the tupe of women most of those guys sleep with leave a lot to be desired - brainless bimbos with more tatoos than you can shake a stick at!

Here comes the abuse (because you will be SO predictable)..............................

Quote Seth at 05 Feb 2014 6.08pm

Quote TomThePalaceFanatic at 05 Feb 2014 6.04pm

Why should footballers come out?

No reason, unless they're gay and they want to come out.

Why shouldn't they?

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Feb 14 3.38pm
I think the only right that these people want is not to be abused because of their sexuality. This campaign highlights that. What extra rights are they demanding?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 07 Feb 14 3.38pm

I think the only right that these people want is not to be abused because of their sexuality.
This campaign highlights that. What extra rights are they demanding?

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