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Training the Newbies

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View adrian b's Profile adrian b Flag Landrindod, Wales 19 Feb 14 12.29pm Send a Private Message to adrian b Add adrian b as a friend


When Palace were in their golden era of the late 60's, early 70's, the whole ground used to reverberate with people chanting. Didn't seem to be from any particular section of the groumd, the noise came from every direction. I would say that generally it is the younger section that makes the most noise and that past era was the 'hump' of the baby boom generation. Most of the Palace support was fairly new and young. That was the time when the whole 'Kop' were mopped headed Beatle fans disgorging the famous pop songs of the time. 'You'll never walk alone' topped the charts and there are now still songs sung on the terraces from that ers. 'Glad all over' comes to mind. No surprise the older geezers inn the old stand are now not so vociferous as those young 'Egrets' elsewhere. Just wait when they age!

 

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Hoof Hearted 19 Feb 14 1.02pm

Quote adrian b at 19 Feb 2014 12.29pm


When Palace were in their golden era of the late 60's, early 70's, the whole ground used to reverberate with people chanting. Didn't seem to be from any particular section of the groumd, the noise came from every direction. I would say that generally it is the younger section that makes the most noise and that past era was the 'hump' of the baby boom generation. Most of the Palace support was fairly new and young. That was the time when the whole 'Kop' were mopped headed Beatle fans disgorging the famous pop songs of the time. 'You'll never walk alone' topped the charts and there are now still songs sung on the terraces from that ers. 'Glad all over' comes to mind. No surprise the older geezers inn the old stand are now not so vociferous as those young 'Egrets' elsewhere. Just wait when they age!


I can belt out some noise to match any young gun... I just can't leap up and down any more!

 

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View I'mPalace Till I Die's Profile I'mPalace Till I Die Flag 19 Feb 14 1.46pm Send a Private Message to I'mPalace Till I Die Add I'mPalace Till I Die as a friend

It is great to have an electric atmosphere and I for one do sing along at times and if I am away then I may jump up and down and stand all match. I actually sit in the Main Stand too so I don't jump up and down at home though. I think every fan should be valued and collectively we are great. I wouldn't want anyone to feel like they had to sing and make a racket but if they choose to then great. For the elderly who come to Palace, it must be nice for them to hear a good atmosphere and keep their spirit they had going. If new ppl come along to Palace, they might feel obliged/encouraged to get involved in certain parts of the ground. If I took my Nephew to the Main Stand it might have the opposite effect, just saying.

 

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View 9eagle's Profile 9eagle Flag 19 Feb 14 3.57pm Send a Private Message to 9eagle Add 9eagle as a friend

Ok I think encourage might be a better word than mould.
And those fans standing with their backs to the match for large portions of the game are rallying the rest of the fans who in term have been the 12th man we've so badly needed for the last few seasons and to who we could give some credit for keeping and getting us up.
To be frank, the more fans we have up and singing the more intimidating it is for the opposition and not to mention more enjoyable the game is for us due to the atmosphere.
If some of the older fans want to sit there and watch the game quietly that's fine, but I think what the OP was getting at is to get the new and younger fans to be part of the loud bunch which can only be a good thing for everyone.
So yes, let's ENCOURAGE as many people as we can to get involved, sing up and make selhurst a party for us and absolute hell for any visitors.

 

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View Palace15eagle's Profile Palace15eagle Flag London 19 Feb 14 6.26pm Send a Private Message to Palace15eagle Add Palace15eagle as a friend

Quote Hoof Hearted at 19 Feb 2014 10.34am

Quote Palace15eagle at 19 Feb 2014 9.54am

Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 11.08pm

Quote Firegut at 18 Feb 2014 10.55pm

I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do"


I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team

Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match

etc

Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above?

Then you've got the point of atmosphere in this thread. It's the same principle, don't think he's saying "every Palace fan should do what I say". He's just saying it's so much better when there's a quality atmosphere. The club is getting praised left right and centre for it so he's not alone in thinking that.


Phew, thought I was on my own there for a while

My point really was that i dont want to knock any existing supporters. But maybe the new ones should be viewed as welcome fresh blood. They will only ever have seen the support at its current intensity so should just think its normal to very actively get behind the team.

Exactly right. The longer we can keep our atmosphere up to the current levels the better. Luckily the Main Stand folk are a minority of the Palace support.

Another thing, I don't quite understand how someone who just turns up, goes to their seat and expect to be royally entertained is as valued a fan as someone who is jumping up and down and creating a racket, because surely the latter are putting more effort into the way they support their team?


So a person that has supported the club for 50 years isn't as valued as the new energetic fan because old age, arthritis etc prevents him from jumping up and down?


Good question. No, the point I was more aiming to make was the fact that I don't understand how people that have turned up last August, gone into the holmesdale (which is supposed to be the most atmospheric part of the ground) and tried to cull the atmosphere with their constant GBH to the ears of 'sit down', are supposed to be as contributive 'supporters' as those who spend lots of time making banners and singing their heart out in the HF...

 


Your HOL best newcomer of the year 2013.

My twitter account: [Link]

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View est1905's Profile est1905 Flag 19 Feb 14 6.55pm Send a Private Message to est1905 Add est1905 as a friend

Quote Palace15eagle at 19 Feb 2014 6.26pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 19 Feb 2014 10.34am

Quote Palace15eagle at 19 Feb 2014 9.54am

Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 11.08pm

Quote Firegut at 18 Feb 2014 10.55pm

I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do"


I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team

Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match

etc

Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above?

Then you've got the point of atmosphere in this thread. It's the same principle, don't think he's saying "every Palace fan should do what I say". He's just saying it's so much better when there's a quality atmosphere. The club is getting praised left right and centre for it so he's not alone in thinking that.


Phew, thought I was on my own there for a while

My point really was that i dont want to knock any existing supporters. But maybe the new ones should be viewed as welcome fresh blood. They will only ever have seen the support at its current intensity so should just think its normal to very actively get behind the team.

Exactly right. The longer we can keep our atmosphere up to the current levels the better. Luckily the Main Stand folk are a minority of the Palace support.

Another thing, I don't quite understand how someone who just turns up, goes to their seat and expect to be royally entertained is as valued a fan as someone who is jumping up and down and creating a racket, because surely the latter are putting more effort into the way they support their team?


So a person that has supported the club for 50 years isn't as valued as the new energetic fan because old age, arthritis etc prevents him from jumping up and down?


Good question. No, the point I was more aiming to make was the fact that I don't understand how people that have turned up last August, gone into the holmesdale (which is supposed to be the most atmospheric part of the ground) and tried to cull the atmosphere with their constant GBH to the ears of 'sit down', are supposed to be as contributive 'supporters' as those who spend lots of time making banners and singing their heart out in the HF...

We can all talk about which is the better supporter etc. The reality is nobody is. If you compare football supporters to customers of a business (in many peoples eyes that is exactly what they are) and say which customer would you prefer? The one that's been buying from you for a couple of years and raves about your product so much so that he/she has begun to encourage their friends to buy from you too. A very valuable customer you'd think and you'd be right but what about the loyal customer that does not make any kind of a fuss at all but buys from you every week, has done for 50 years and because of his/her actions their family have grown up loyal to your business and buy from you too. But lets say they also do not make a song and dance about your product, they just buy it.
The reality is neither supporter is better than the other and both are just as vital to the long standing survival of the club.
We should learn lessons from other football clubs. If we discourage singing/atmosphere Selhurst park will be like Arsenal without the quality football. People will start dozing off. On the flip side, if you discourage/ostracise quiet fans in favour of singing/chanting/jumping around you risk ending up doing what Millwall did in the late eighties and drive more than half your support away. They still haven't got those fans back even today. Partly due to the fact that they're crap but there you go, I think you see my point.
In short, Palace is fine just the way it is. In my view, ALL fans welcome whether you are 5 or 85, a passionate singer or a subdued little wall flower and everyone in the middle!


 

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View Palace15eagle's Profile Palace15eagle Flag London 19 Feb 14 9.52pm Send a Private Message to Palace15eagle Add Palace15eagle as a friend

Quote est1905 at 19 Feb 2014 6.55pm

Quote Palace15eagle at 19 Feb 2014 6.26pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 19 Feb 2014 10.34am

Quote Palace15eagle at 19 Feb 2014 9.54am

Quote Mapletree at 18 Feb 2014 11.08pm

Quote Firegut at 18 Feb 2014 10.55pm

I don't get when people start saying stuff like "what right do you have to dictate what other fans do"


I'm not happy for a stadium full of Palace fans to boo our own team

Not happy for thousands of Palace fans to stream out the gates 15 minutes before the end of the match

etc

Not saying people can't do what they choose, but why should I and others of similar mind have to be happy about the sort of things above?

Then you've got the point of atmosphere in this thread. It's the same principle, don't think he's saying "every Palace fan should do what I say". He's just saying it's so much better when there's a quality atmosphere. The club is getting praised left right and centre for it so he's not alone in thinking that.


Phew, thought I was on my own there for a while

My point really was that i dont want to knock any existing supporters. But maybe the new ones should be viewed as welcome fresh blood. They will only ever have seen the support at its current intensity so should just think its normal to very actively get behind the team.

Exactly right. The longer we can keep our atmosphere up to the current levels the better. Luckily the Main Stand folk are a minority of the Palace support.

Another thing, I don't quite understand how someone who just turns up, goes to their seat and expect to be royally entertained is as valued a fan as someone who is jumping up and down and creating a racket, because surely the latter are putting more effort into the way they support their team?


So a person that has supported the club for 50 years isn't as valued as the new energetic fan because old age, arthritis etc prevents him from jumping up and down?


Good question. No, the point I was more aiming to make was the fact that I don't understand how people that have turned up last August, gone into the holmesdale (which is supposed to be the most atmospheric part of the ground) and tried to cull the atmosphere with their constant GBH to the ears of 'sit down', are supposed to be as contributive 'supporters' as those who spend lots of time making banners and singing their heart out in the HF...

We can all talk about which is the better supporter etc. The reality is nobody is. If you compare football supporters to customers of a business (in many peoples eyes that is exactly what they are) and say which customer would you prefer? The one that's been buying from you for a couple of years and raves about your product so much so that he/she has begun to encourage their friends to buy from you too. A very valuable customer you'd think and you'd be right but what about the loyal customer that does not make any kind of a fuss at all but buys from you every week, has done for 50 years and because of his/her actions their family have grown up loyal to your business and buy from you too. But lets say they also do not make a song and dance about your product, they just buy it.
The reality is neither supporter is better than the other and both are just as vital to the long standing survival of the club.
We should learn lessons from other football clubs. If we discourage singing/atmosphere Selhurst park will be like Arsenal without the quality football. People will start dozing off. On the flip side, if you discourage/ostracise quiet fans in favour of singing/chanting/jumping around you risk ending up doing what Millwall did in the late eighties and drive more than half your support away. They still haven't got those fans back even today. Partly due to the fact that they're crap but there you go, I think you see my point.
In short, Palace is fine just the way it is. In my view, ALL fans welcome whether you are 5 or 85, a passionate singer or a subdued little wall flower and everyone in the middle!



Apart from the business analogy that many people including me would think is wrong to compare with football, your point is very well made. I don't think driving fans away would help the club financially, as the support is worth roughly £14M a year when you factor in tickets and merchandise. However, like mapletree previously said, encouragement of 'louder' newer fans is a positive for me, especially as we look to stay in the potentially atmosphere culling EPL.

 


Your HOL best newcomer of the year 2013.

My twitter account: [Link]

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 19 Feb 14 10.42pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Quote Mapletree at 15 Feb 2014 2.03pm

There is a general view on HOL that new generation supporters won't fit in very well and won't add to the atmosphere.

Thinking about that, the people that don't sing much - although they are improving - are primarily in the Main Stand. Most of those guys are long-standing supporters who just don't feel the need to sing. Hard to get them going and they feel more embarrassment about singing than about not singing.

But the newbies are there to be moulded. Could it be that when they first arrive they will see the singing and assume they really should participate? And maybe many of them are coming because we have a reputation for atmosphere and will want to add to it.


Just to make sure my original point is clear. I entirely agree that it is fine not to sing if you don't want, especially if you are a long-standing fan that contributes in other ways and has for many years. We are a broad Church.

I don't think it's correct to assume that as you get older you automatically don't want to sing but perhaps it is true that the most enthusiastic singers are not yet retired.

My point, as above, was always don't knock the new supporters. Rather than all being plastics who will move on if we stop being successful, maybe instead they are on a journey to learn how to be outstanding supporters. They are learning in the best possible place. We just need to hold onto them for long enough so that, using my earlier word, they get moulded. And that won't be anybody actively moulding them, they will just have served their apprenticeship. Poor souls, once hooked there will be no turning back.....

 

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View adrian b's Profile adrian b Flag Landrindod, Wales 20 Feb 14 3.14pm Send a Private Message to adrian b Add adrian b as a friend


It's been suggested Palace, or football in general, is as a business. I suppose this is true in the transaction manner of taking money and providing something back. But Jimmy Hill made the remark 'football isn't really like a business because who ever heard of someone wanting their ashes spread down the aisle at the local Tesco'? A good point and maybe a suggestion as to why we may be expected to do something more than just coldly sit and watch. I wore my brother-in-laws Tottenham shirt at his funeral recently. It was an odd feeling but shows how much I felt about his love of Spurs. I could have just worn the black....but this is football. I suppose I could just sit and stare at SP...but this is Palace.

 

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