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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 20 Aug 14 4.39pm

Quote elgrande at 20 Aug 2014 4.28pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 Aug 2014 4.23pm

Quote elgrande at 20 Aug 2014 4.19pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 Aug 2014 4.15pm

Quote elgrande at 20 Aug 2014 4.05pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 Aug 2014 3.57pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Aug 2014 2.58pm

Multiculturalism is such a success story isn't it.

Cameron telling us that IS are a threat here as well.

0.12 percent of muslim males in the uk. Suggests that multiculturalism is working. About 10% of northern Ireland were members of the IRA


1. I do not believe that percentage Jamie.
2.I saw a figure the other day, which said there is something like 4 billion Muslims in the world.
And if only 2% of those were extremists we have got problems.

not really because more than 2% of that muslim population are going to be the target of at 2%. Look at Iraq. Those actually fighting Isis are mostly Muslims also. Same world over. Extremist like Isis are mostly killing and fighting other Muslims.

You mean apart from the American reporter,and the other religions they have been beheading and slaughtering.

one American gets killed and its news. Yes theyve killed christians and an American, and a metric s*** ton of muslims


Now thats not the point.and you know it.
It is the manner of the death,beheading on video,and being killed because they do not like their religion.
Come on Jamie it's the 21st f***ing century.


i think the ritually murdered him because he was American and because it would be such a media sensation. They know theyll get the media coverage world wide for it, and that works for them far more than the murder of Iraqi. Prisoners etc

 


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View Superfly's Profile Superfly Flag The sun always shines in Catford 20 Aug 14 4.41pm Send a Private Message to Superfly Add Superfly as a friend

coughfakecough

 


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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Aug 14 4.46pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

I'm surprised by all the calls to wipe them out. I would ask exactly who would you wipe out? People in these situations, when confronted by a force with overwhelming firepower, simply fade away and are driven underground. They begin using guerilla tactics and organising and funding themselves as an Islamic terrorist organisation. Before you know it the problem has spread worldwide to every city/airport/train station/school/university - you get the picture.
My suggestion would be to combine a hard response with a deal of some kind. Maybe there could be some legitimate Muslim state run by ISIS where people could go and choose to live under Sharia law etc. if they so wished? Part of the deal could be to hand over anyone proven guilty of atrocities to be tried under international law at the Hague, or some such thing; rather than renditioning. The hard part would be getting them to talk which is why I would first assemble a huge force so they would know we mean business.

 


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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 20 Aug 14 4.57pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote ASCPFC at 20 Aug 2014 4.46pm

I'm surprised by all the calls to wipe them out. I would ask exactly who would you wipe out? People in these situations, when confronted by a force with overwhelming firepower, simply fade away and are driven underground. They begin using guerilla tactics and organising and funding themselves as an Islamic terrorist organisation. Before you know it the problem has spread worldwide to every city/airport/train station/school/university - you get the picture.
My suggestion would be to combine a hard response with a deal of some kind. Maybe there could be some legitimate Muslim state run by ISIS where people could go and choose to live under Sharia law etc. if they so wished? Part of the deal could be to hand over anyone proven guilty of atrocities to be tried under international law at the Hague, or some such thing; rather than renditioning. The hard part would be getting them to talk which is why I would first assemble a huge force so they would know we mean business.


using your logic though a huge force would be pointless as we wouldnt be able to do anything anyway.

Where would you put this state? What country should give up their teritory to house these animals? Maybe somewhere with international jurisdiction like the Antartic?

Yes a lot of these people would melt away but as with Pol Pot (to a degree), once the fear of them is removed, the people will rise against anyone who tries to disappear.

You cannot be rational with these people. That is why we are always destined to lose unless we do something more drastic.


 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View elgrande's Profile elgrande Flag bedford 20 Aug 14 4.58pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Quote ASCPFC at 20 Aug 2014 4.46pm

I'm surprised by all the calls to wipe them out. I would ask exactly who would you wipe out? People in these situations, when confronted by a force with overwhelming firepower, simply fade away and are driven underground. They begin using guerilla tactics and organising and funding themselves as an Islamic terrorist organisation. Before you know it the problem has spread worldwide to every city/airport/train station/school/university - you get the picture.
My suggestion would be to combine a hard response with a deal of some kind. Maybe there could be some legitimate Muslim state run by ISIS where people could go and choose to live under Sharia law etc. if they so wished? Part of the deal could be to hand over anyone proven guilty of atrocities to be tried under international law at the Hague, or some such thing; rather than renditioning. The hard part would be getting them to talk which is why I would first assemble a huge force so they would know we mean business.

I thought that is whats been happening.

 


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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Aug 14 5.09pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 20 Aug 2014 4.57pm

Quote ASCPFC at 20 Aug 2014 4.46pm

I'm surprised by all the calls to wipe them out. I would ask exactly who would you wipe out? People in these situations, when confronted by a force with overwhelming firepower, simply fade away and are driven underground. They begin using guerilla tactics and organising and funding themselves as an Islamic terrorist organisation. Before you know it the problem has spread worldwide to every city/airport/train station/school/university - you get the picture.
My suggestion would be to combine a hard response with a deal of some kind. Maybe there could be some legitimate Muslim state run by ISIS where people could go and choose to live under Sharia law etc. if they so wished? Part of the deal could be to hand over anyone proven guilty of atrocities to be tried under international law at the Hague, or some such thing; rather than renditioning. The hard part would be getting them to talk which is why I would first assemble a huge force so they would know we mean business.


using your logic though a huge force would be pointless as we wouldnt be able to do anything anyway.

Where would you put this state? What country should give up their teritory to house these animals? Maybe somewhere with international jurisdiction like the Antartic?

Yes a lot of these people would melt away but as with Pol Pot (to a degree), once the fear of them is removed, the people will rise against anyone who tries to disappear.

You cannot be rational with these people. That is why we are always destined to lose unless we do something more drastic.


Not really, a huge force would be necessary to get them to the negotiating table. Why else would they bother? They are pretty much doing what they want at present bar the odd air-strike. As for where would the state be, the obvious answer is more-or-less where it is already. I don't really like the idea of some radical Islamic state but if so many people seem to be attracted to it then who are we to stop them? Inevitably there will just be an escalation of the conflict until some solution is found.
The doing something more drastic would be something akin to the US in Vietnam, the UN in Korea or everyone in Afghanistan. It would pretty likely never end and cause perhaps millions of casualties. This is not a conventonal force like the Iraqi army in Desert Storm. These are committed, well funded and highly manouverable forces who can quite easily disappear when needed. Dare I say it, I really wouldn't like to see the outcome of a massive US intervention. I say protect the borders of what they already have so they can't expand, step up airstrikes and pressure and then see what the diplomats can come up with when the heat dies down a bit.


Edited by ASCPFC (20 Aug 2014 5.10pm)

 


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View The Sash's Profile The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 20 Aug 14 5.12pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

As they are determined to live in a sharia law infested caliphate then let them create one - move all of them in from whichever country they currently call home and then they can stone each others wives to death and cut off each others heads for blasphemy to their hearts content

 


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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Aug 14 5.13pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Quote elgrande at 20 Aug 2014 4.58pm

Quote ASCPFC at 20 Aug 2014 4.46pm

I'm surprised by all the calls to wipe them out. I would ask exactly who would you wipe out? People in these situations, when confronted by a force with overwhelming firepower, simply fade away and are driven underground. They begin using guerilla tactics and organising and funding themselves as an Islamic terrorist organisation. Before you know it the problem has spread worldwide to every city/airport/train station/school/university - you get the picture.
My suggestion would be to combine a hard response with a deal of some kind. Maybe there could be some legitimate Muslim state run by ISIS where people could go and choose to live under Sharia law etc. if they so wished? Part of the deal could be to hand over anyone proven guilty of atrocities to be tried under international law at the Hague, or some such thing; rather than renditioning. The hard part would be getting them to talk which is why I would first assemble a huge force so they would know we mean business.

I thought that is whats been happening.

In a way it is except ISIS have just carved out their own territory without any agreement and our huge force is not much more than 1 or 2 squadrons of aircraft and part of a naval task force along with some American Special Advisers. The Kurds are pretty much looking after their own defence and are really being let down by not being reinforced. Truth be told, I wonder whether Western advisers really want a Kurdish state? It never seemed high on the agenda before. Looks like they are getting one the hard way at present.

 


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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Aug 14 5.15pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Quote The Sash at 20 Aug 2014 5.12pm

As they are determined to live in a sharia law infested caliphate then let them create one - move all of them in from whichever country they currently call home and then they can stone each others wives to death and cut off each others heads for blasphemy to their hearts content

This is basically what I mean. Let the radicals have their state and then police the borders really well - keep them there and out of more integrated cultures.

 


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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 20 Aug 14 5.28pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote ASCPFC at 20 Aug 2014 5.13pm

Quote elgrande at 20 Aug 2014 4.58pm

Quote ASCPFC at 20 Aug 2014 4.46pm

I'm surprised by all the calls to wipe them out. I would ask exactly who would you wipe out? People in these situations, when confronted by a force with overwhelming firepower, simply fade away and are driven underground. They begin using guerilla tactics and organising and funding themselves as an Islamic terrorist organisation. Before you know it the problem has spread worldwide to every city/airport/train station/school/university - you get the picture.
My suggestion would be to combine a hard response with a deal of some kind. Maybe there could be some legitimate Muslim state run by ISIS where people could go and choose to live under Sharia law etc. if they so wished? Part of the deal could be to hand over anyone proven guilty of atrocities to be tried under international law at the Hague, or some such thing; rather than renditioning. The hard part would be getting them to talk which is why I would first assemble a huge force so they would know we mean business.

I thought that is whats been happening.

In a way it is except ISIS have just carved out their own territory without any agreement and our huge force is not much more than 1 or 2 squadrons of aircraft and part of a naval task force along with some American Special Advisers. The Kurds are pretty much looking after their own defence and are really being let down by not being reinforced. Truth be told, I wonder whether Western advisers really want a Kurdish state? It never seemed high on the agenda before. Looks like they are getting one the hard way at present.


Exactly, it wioll piss the Turks off too much. That is one of the unpapaltable things we have to consuder. We don't need to be putting 1000s of our own troops on the ground. Kurds, Assad and Iraqi's and probably quite a few Iranian RGs can do the majority of fighting.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 20 Aug 14 7.36pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 20 Aug 2014 4.25pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 Aug 2014 3.59pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 20 Aug 2014 3.03pm

The problem is that there are too many bleeding hearts and the way war is conducted is governed by the media.

Large parts of IS could be wiped off the face of the earth without too much trouble and minimal collateral damage.

Big Boys games = Big Boys Rules. No one wants to play though

and how would that be achieved?


Multi national special forces on the ground primarily as recce & targetting but also for tactical engagements. Even the French would be likely to contribute with 2 REP CRAP

Get Assad on side (yes I know) and provide him with the necessary hardware (ceryain conditions to apply)

When attacks are launched, they need to be of a scale that if anyone is left alive, they are no use to man or beast.

We cannot beat them with media,the impaxt of last night shows that. So why bother? There will be many people in IS who are nowhere near as fanatical as the poepl trotted out for these atrocities. They need to be terrified, so f***ing scared that they jump at their own shadow. Some innocent people will die but many more will be saved. They are vermin, they must be exterminated, it really us that simple.

Problem is that they're in 'bandit' country. That part of Iraq the US had trouble suppressing Insurgent activity with the surge. I'm not sure we could secure sufficient logistics to mount any real campaign without substantial re-deployment into Iraq.

Special forces aren't really suited to full scale engagements, and with ISIS firmly encamped in a number of cities and limited friendlies on the ground, the danger is probably too high to risk small scale forces without suppressing the enemies capacity to move freely. Intelligence gathering and small scale operations generally work better with available support active in the area.

Its unlikely the Kurds will go further than Mosul (and they probably won't give it back afterwards) whilst ISIS have driven back attempts by the Iraqi military to push into Tikrit.

ISIS aren't the only group active in that area, there are still Baathist factions and more traditional sunni insurgent groups that are very well established, and know the area and people well - and for them ISIS represent a better option than the Iraqi Shia dominated government. ISIS are a convenient ally and they're not going to side with the US or UK unless we give them a Sunni state.

Assad, I don't disagree there. It was on the cards that any civil war in Syria would have massive repercussions for Iraq. The rebel forces in Syria, aren't all fundamentalist. It could also take six months to a year for Assad to take back Syria, possibly longer - the capacity of the Syrian Army is very reduced, and its ability and Assads willingness to retake and effectively hold the border areas is limited.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 20 Aug 14 7.38pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 20 Aug 2014 5.28pm

Quote ASCPFC at 20 Aug 2014 5.13pm

Quote elgrande at 20 Aug 2014 4.58pm

Quote ASCPFC at 20 Aug 2014 4.46pm

I'm surprised by all the calls to wipe them out. I would ask exactly who would you wipe out? People in these situations, when confronted by a force with overwhelming firepower, simply fade away and are driven underground. They begin using guerilla tactics and organising and funding themselves as an Islamic terrorist organisation. Before you know it the problem has spread worldwide to every city/airport/train station/school/university - you get the picture.
My suggestion would be to combine a hard response with a deal of some kind. Maybe there could be some legitimate Muslim state run by ISIS where people could go and choose to live under Sharia law etc. if they so wished? Part of the deal could be to hand over anyone proven guilty of atrocities to be tried under international law at the Hague, or some such thing; rather than renditioning. The hard part would be getting them to talk which is why I would first assemble a huge force so they would know we mean business.

I thought that is whats been happening.

In a way it is except ISIS have just carved out their own territory without any agreement and our huge force is not much more than 1 or 2 squadrons of aircraft and part of a naval task force along with some American Special Advisers. The Kurds are pretty much looking after their own defence and are really being let down by not being reinforced. Truth be told, I wonder whether Western advisers really want a Kurdish state? It never seemed high on the agenda before. Looks like they are getting one the hard way at present.


Exactly, it wioll piss the Turks off too much. That is one of the unpapaltable things we have to consuder. We don't need to be putting 1000s of our own troops on the ground. Kurds, Assad and Iraqi's and probably quite a few Iranian RGs can do the majority of fighting.

That couldn't possibly go wrong...

The Kurds won't surrender Mosul either, they've been claiming that since the liberation. Assads troops aren't anywhere near the border region and are too engaged in the civil war against rebels (of which Isis are a single faction).


 


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