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legaleagle 15 Sep 14 9.12am
[Link] 21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture.
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legaleagle

15 Sep 14 9.12am

[Link]

21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture.

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 15 Sep 14 9.54am
Quote legaleagle at 15 Sep 2014 9.12am [Link] 21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture. Hopefully she will be dead soon the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 15 Sep 14 9.54am

Quote legaleagle at 15 Sep 2014 9.12am

[Link]

21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture.

Hopefully she will be dead soon

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Sep 14 10.12am
Unfortuanately there isn't actually much we can do, a full scale military deployment is unlikely, and by the time its complete the issue of IS in Iraq will need to have been resolved, or they'll be solidly entrenched. Even if we engaged heavily, we could only force them back into Syria, actually crossing the border would likely create far more serious long term problems. Realistically the only option is to reinforce, equip and support military options available, ie Iraq forces, Kurdish Militias and Shia militias along with either the rebel forces or assad regime in Syria opposed to IS - The problem is all of these have future problems (particually rebels, assad and militia). Air support is a functional option, but limited, plus it risks hitting civilian targets in occupied areas, resulting in a Sunni backlash from those communities. If the Iraq / shia or Kurd forces cross the border into Syria, then its likely to result in a much larger conflict, drawing Iraq into the on going civil war. Problem is that the US has spent the best part of 12-13 years trying to impliment targeted (or vaguely targeted) assassination campaigns against Al-Queda and affliates with limited success - These groups just tend to melt into the background when necessary, restructure and reappear. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Sep 14 10.12am

Unfortuanately there isn't actually much we can do, a full scale military deployment is unlikely, and by the time its complete the issue of IS in Iraq will need to have been resolved, or they'll be solidly entrenched.

Even if we engaged heavily, we could only force them back into Syria, actually crossing the border would likely create far more serious long term problems.

Realistically the only option is to reinforce, equip and support military options available, ie Iraq forces, Kurdish Militias and Shia militias along with either the rebel forces or assad regime in Syria opposed to IS - The problem is all of these have future problems (particually rebels, assad and militia). Air support is a functional option, but limited, plus it risks hitting civilian targets in occupied areas, resulting in a Sunni backlash from those communities.

If the Iraq / shia or Kurd forces cross the border into Syria, then its likely to result in a much larger conflict, drawing Iraq into the on going civil war.

Problem is that the US has spent the best part of 12-13 years trying to impliment targeted (or vaguely targeted) assassination campaigns against Al-Queda and affliates with limited success - These groups just tend to melt into the background when necessary, restructure and reappear.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Sep 14 10.12am
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 15 Sep 2014 9.54am Quote legaleagle at 15 Sep 2014 9.12am [Link] 21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture. Hopefully she will be dead soon Or spending 30 years in an Iraqi prison which is probably a less pleasant fate. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Sep 14 10.12am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 15 Sep 2014 9.54am

Quote legaleagle at 15 Sep 2014 9.12am

[Link]

21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture.

Hopefully she will be dead soon

Or spending 30 years in an Iraqi prison which is probably a less pleasant fate.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 15 Sep 14 12.37pm
Guantanamo Bay. No Holds Barred "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 15 Sep 14 12.37pm

Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly

Guantanamo Bay.

No Holds Barred

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 15 Sep 14 12.58pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2014 10.12am Unfortuanately there isn't actually much we can do, a full scale military deployment is unlikely, and by the time its complete the issue of IS in Iraq will need to have been resolved, or they'll be solidly entrenched. Even if we engaged heavily, we could only force them back into Syria, actually crossing the border would likely create far more serious long term problems. Realistically the only option is to reinforce, equip and support military options available, ie Iraq forces, Kurdish Militias and Shia militias along with either the rebel forces or assad regime in Syria opposed to IS - The problem is all of these have future problems (particually rebels, assad and militia). Air support is a functional option, but limited, plus it risks hitting civilian targets in occupied areas, resulting in a Sunni backlash from those communities. If the Iraq / shia or Kurd forces cross the border into Syria, then its likely to result in a much larger conflict, drawing Iraq into the on going civil war. Problem is that the US has spent the best part of 12-13 years trying to impliment targeted (or vaguely targeted) assassination campaigns against Al-Queda and affliates with limited success - These groups just tend to melt into the background when necessary, restructure and reappear. The political strategy aside (that seems to change on a weekly basis), militarily there is a lot that can be done. As mentioned before there is a role for troops on the ground primarily SF as you wouldn't want allies in full scale battles. There is already a significant presence and together with air strikes, would go a long way to assisting the Kurds, Iraqis etc. in turning the tide. Unlike Al Qaeda, there is an extremely large part of IS that operate as an army. Some of whom are operating under a flag of convenience. By targeting them and obviously where possible the leaders, we can in the short term defeat them. Of course a lot of the leaders will disappear and emerge under another name but this will at least buy time for the longer game which everyone needs as it is all together far more complicated and ever changing. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 15 Sep 14 12.58pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2014 10.12am

Even if we engaged heavily, we could only force them back into Syria, actually crossing the border would likely create far more serious long term problems.

If the Iraq / shia or Kurd forces cross the border into Syria, then its likely to result in a much larger conflict, drawing Iraq into the on going civil war.

The political strategy aside (that seems to change on a weekly basis), militarily there is a lot that can be done. As mentioned before there is a role for troops on the ground primarily SF as you wouldn't want allies in full scale battles. There is already a significant presence and together with air strikes, would go a long way to assisting the Kurds, Iraqis etc. in turning the tide.

Unlike Al Qaeda, there is an extremely large part of IS that operate as an army. Some of whom are operating under a flag of convenience. By targeting them and obviously where possible the leaders, we can in the short term defeat them.

Of course a lot of the leaders will disappear and emerge under another name but this will at least buy time for the longer game which everyone needs as it is all together far more complicated and ever changing.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Seth On a pale blue dot 15 Sep 14 1.34pm
Quote legaleagle at 15 Sep 2014 9.12am [Link] 21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture. She calls herself "Bint". How appropriate. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 15 Sep 14 1.34pm

Quote legaleagle at 15 Sep 2014 9.12am

[Link]

21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture.

She calls herself "Bint". How appropriate.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Sep 14 3.03pm
Quote Seth at 15 Sep 2014 1.34pm Quote legaleagle at 15 Sep 2014 9.12am [Link] 21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture. She calls herself "Bint". How appropriate. But would you? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Sep 14 3.03pm

Quote Seth at 15 Sep 2014 1.34pm

Quote legaleagle at 15 Sep 2014 9.12am

[Link]

21 year old Briish medical student tweets severed head picture.

She calls herself "Bint". How appropriate.

But would you?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Sep 14 3.14pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 15 Sep 2014 12.58pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2014 10.12am Unfortuanately there isn't actually much we can do, a full scale military deployment is unlikely, and by the time its complete the issue of IS in Iraq will need to have been resolved, or they'll be solidly entrenched. Even if we engaged heavily, we could only force them back into Syria, actually crossing the border would likely create far more serious long term problems. Realistically the only option is to reinforce, equip and support military options available, ie Iraq forces, Kurdish Militias and Shia militias along with either the rebel forces or assad regime in Syria opposed to IS - The problem is all of these have future problems (particually rebels, assad and militia). Air support is a functional option, but limited, plus it risks hitting civilian targets in occupied areas, resulting in a Sunni backlash from those communities. If the Iraq / shia or Kurd forces cross the border into Syria, then its likely to result in a much larger conflict, drawing Iraq into the on going civil war. Problem is that the US has spent the best part of 12-13 years trying to impliment targeted (or vaguely targeted) assassination campaigns against Al-Queda and affliates with limited success - These groups just tend to melt into the background when necessary, restructure and reappear. The political strategy aside (that seems to change on a weekly basis), militarily there is a lot that can be done. As mentioned before there is a role for troops on the ground primarily SF as you wouldn't want allies in full scale battles. There is already a significant presence and together with air strikes, would go a long way to assisting the Kurds, Iraqis etc. in turning the tide. Unlike Al Qaeda, there is an extremely large part of IS that operate as an army. Some of whom are operating under a flag of convenience. By targeting them and obviously where possible the leaders, we can in the short term defeat them. Of course a lot of the leaders will disappear and emerge under another name but this will at least buy time for the longer game which everyone needs as it is all together far more complicated and ever changing. Pretty much agree. What needs to be done short term is blunt its capacity to hold its own against the ground forces, whilst utilising special forces groups to recon and identify targets. Problem is you can't really risk Special Force units operating with local Iraqi forces as the risk of being 'compromised' is fairly high (they'll be likely fighting against their current allies in a few years time). What needs to be hit though is IS capacity to operate financially, as well as identifying and eliminating those who provide support, which there will be less support from, ie those trafficking in weapons, funds and oil for IS. Those accounts need to be seized and those directly running and supporting those operations need to be eliminated, turned or otherwise removed from 'play'. As soon as the tide really turns, IS will withdraw into Syria, where they're relatively safe (without risking being dragged into an even bigger conflict) Then the problem will likely be the Shia taking revenge on IS (ie read sunnis in the area) and the Kurds refusing to hand back Mosul. Possibly resulting in the whole thing flaring up and IS coming back. What is more important, to the west, though is 'following the money', rather than military successes (which will end up in bigger and bigger problems). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Sep 14 3.14pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 15 Sep 2014 12.58pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 15 Sep 2014 10.12am

Even if we engaged heavily, we could only force them back into Syria, actually crossing the border would likely create far more serious long term problems.

If the Iraq / shia or Kurd forces cross the border into Syria, then its likely to result in a much larger conflict, drawing Iraq into the on going civil war.

Pretty much agree. What needs to be done short term is blunt its capacity to hold its own against the ground forces, whilst utilising special forces groups to recon and identify targets. Problem is you can't really risk Special Force units operating with local Iraqi forces as the risk of being 'compromised' is fairly high (they'll be likely fighting against their current allies in a few years time).

What needs to be hit though is IS capacity to operate financially, as well as identifying and eliminating those who provide support, which there will be less support from, ie those trafficking in weapons, funds and oil for IS. Those accounts need to be seized and those directly running and supporting those operations need to be eliminated, turned or otherwise removed from 'play'.

As soon as the tide really turns, IS will withdraw into Syria, where they're relatively safe (without risking being dragged into an even bigger conflict)

Then the problem will likely be the Shia taking revenge on IS (ie read sunnis in the area) and the Kurds refusing to hand back Mosul. Possibly resulting in the whole thing flaring up and IS coming back.

What is more important, to the west, though is 'following the money', rather than military successes (which will end up in bigger and bigger problems).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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legaleagle 15 Sep 14 8.54pm
...and closer to home, working hard (in liaison with the mobilisation of the majority of the muslim community here) to try to deal effectively with: 1. Minority elements in the community successfully portraying ISIS to young and impressionable disaffected people as simply victims of a western "war on terror", and their ideology in terms of the society they want to see as admirable in essence (even if flawed in the means used), thus laying the groundwork for support for whatever emerges elsewhere than Iraq/Syria that's similar in ideology (and it likely will) and continued "jihadist radicalisation" of segments of youth here. 2.Effective moves against dodgy groups and financial/recruit support networks here 3.Not falling into the trap of demonising the whole muslim community or the entire religion of Islam 4.Trying to understand and reduce whatever legitimately makes people feel disaffected and thus more open to simplistic nonsense solutions, not excluding consideration of government policies. Edited by legaleagle (15 Sep 2014 8.56pm)
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legaleagle

15 Sep 14 8.54pm

...and closer to home, working hard (in liaison with the mobilisation of the majority of the muslim community here) to try to deal effectively with:

1. Minority elements in the community successfully portraying ISIS to young and impressionable disaffected people as simply victims of a western "war on terror", and their ideology in terms of the society they want to see as admirable in essence (even if flawed in the means used), thus laying the groundwork for support for whatever emerges elsewhere than Iraq/Syria that's similar in ideology (and it likely will) and continued "jihadist radicalisation" of segments of youth here.

2.Effective moves against dodgy groups and financial/recruit support networks here

3.Not falling into the trap of demonising the whole muslim community or the entire religion of Islam

4.Trying to understand and reduce whatever legitimately makes people feel disaffected and thus more open to simplistic nonsense solutions, not excluding consideration of government policies.

Edited by legaleagle (15 Sep 2014 8.56pm)

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