Always hated that movie.

Gusset I have asked you repeatedly what was the alternative to Saddam being removed from power and you have said you don't know. So, therefore, you are against slaughter yet against removing those perpetuating slaughter. What do you propose for sorting out the Middle East, other than continually offering 'solidarity' and expressions of 'despair' at what is going on? Please tell us.

As for the nuke thing earlier, even a man of your intelligence could realise that was a joke.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

The age old dilemma. Keep a despot in power where there is "stability" but horrendous crimes like using chemical weapons against the Kurds, or if they go by force, the genie is out of the bottle after years of oppression and no developed political institutions...Same story whether its Iraq, Syria, Saudi or various other places....the difference now is that the genie has the potential to bite back right here at home.

In the mix is the importance of asking why kids with seemingly decent prospects go off to fight with ISIS...seems logical that they must feel they have no stake in the system here (probably reinforced every time Moslems in the UK are demonised as a group or individuals are randomly attacked for nothing more than their faith)...coupled with youth often idealistically getting into doctrines that seemingly explain why the world in unjust and against their community, and how to get rid of that (whether religion or communism in the 30's:the difference now that the doctrine is regressive rather than idealistically progressive. Throw into the mix knowingly allowing UK to become base for various exponents of jihad in the 1980's/90's and piles of Saudi money funding promulgation of wahabbism in mosques...

How do we break out of the spiral beyond unhelpful kneejerk stuff like nuke 'em all or say too many muslims in the UK.... quite apart from morality...they are not realistic solutions to anything...

You have hit a nail on the head, generally, about many of us. Do the ends justify the means or not? Are we against British military intervention/military aid in principle anywhere to help topple a repressive group/regime, or are we only opposed to it sometimes where it isn't against a regime/group we feel should be toppled, let alone all the grey areas in the middle? Many of us contradict ourselves when we take positions on issues like this, and that's not a "left" or a "right" thing...

There are no easy answers, or explanations.In my view, abandoning multiculturalism (however much more effectively it might have been implemented to date) at this point would be likely to increase "ghettoisation" and be like manna from heaven to those who want to stir things up and persuade young people integration is not the way forward...but that further dislocation from other groups is the only way forward...coupled with more extreme attitudes in other communities including the WASP one...

I think we sometimes forget what a long way we have come from life in the late 60's/70's and the extent of racism/alienation that was around then...we have multiculturalism to thank for that in some ways...it helped, not hinder. The problem now is a whole new one because of what's going on in jihadi-supporting circles worldwide and people's access to stuff from anywhere via the internet.

Edited by legaleagle (29 Jul 2014 7.05pm)

Edited by legaleagle (29 Jul 2014 7.10pm)

Closed minds thrive behind closed borders and it matters little whether 'we've' shut them in or 'they've' shut us out.
The real problem created by ISIS is it's success. This breeds false beliefs in it's adherents and supporters that: A) - God has given His mandate to them,
and B) - The same message and methods will work elsewhere.

Just as happened after WW2, with de-Nazification programs in Germany and Austria, we will need to politically AND spiritually re-educate returning fighters.

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