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April 23 2024 8.27pm

Ched Evans saga part ???

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 Oct 15 3.59pm

Quote Old Chap at 05 Oct 2015 8.16pm

I'm sure he had the best legal council he (or his girlfriends father) could obtain. So why didn't they raise it?

Usually its only grounds for appeal if the 'prosecution' side had access to it and didn't submit it, or its new evidence that didn't come to light at the time.

Of course it doesn't actually automatically follow that it will exonerate Ched Evans either. It could for example be as simple as one of the Jury being known to the victim.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 Oct 15 4.27pm

Evans biggest problem has always been that he admitted having sex with her, under caution and oath. The police couldn't prove sex had taken place, but both defendants admitted it.

I think his only real recourse is to either prove she wasn't drunk, or discredit her and witnesses that say she was.

Apparently its evidence the original defense didn't submit, which is questionable, and some new evidence that has come to light. The latter is likely his best bet, because if the defense didn't submit something, its usually because its potentially incriminating or damaging. Especially when they didn't submit it to the first appeal application.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 06 Oct 15 7.00pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Oct 2015 4.27pm

Evans biggest problem has always been that he admitted having sex with her, under caution and oath. The police couldn't prove sex had taken place, but both defendants admitted it.

I think his only real recourse is to either prove she wasn't drunk, or discredit her and witnesses that say she was.

Apparently its evidence the original defense didn't submit, which is questionable, and some new evidence that has come to light. The latter is likely his best bet, because if the defense didn't submit something, its usually because its potentially incriminating or damaging. Especially when they didn't submit it to the first appeal application.


Whatever it is, it's sufficiently game-changing to go back to the Court of Appeal.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 07 Oct 15 9.57am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote MochMon at 05 Oct 2015 10.36pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 Oct 2015 3.13pm

Quote Stuk at 05 Oct 2015 2.02pm

The case is going to the court of appeal.

[Link]

New evidence or information not heard by the jury. Should be interesting to see what that actually is, and why it wasn't introduced at the time.


Lots of rumours about before the case went to court, remember Rhyl is a small town but this is what I heard/read it may be true or not but the "victim" had previously accused a rugby player (a pro) of raping/assaulting her.
She posted things on FB etc suggesting she was going to stitch Evans(specifically) up then deleted all these and she was messaging people despite supposedly being "unconcsious" after the alleged attacks/assaults she didn't suggest she was in any distress apparently.

Ched Evans guilty or not has no morals, decorum or integrity.



I hadn't heard about Facebook but there were lots of rumours (whether true or not) about how she behaved pre and post incident.

Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (07 Oct 2015 9.57am)

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 08 Oct 15 9.03am Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Oct 2015 9.57am

Quote MochMon at 05 Oct 2015 10.36pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 Oct 2015 3.13pm

Quote Stuk at 05 Oct 2015 2.02pm

The case is going to the court of appeal.

[Link]

New evidence or information not heard by the jury. Should be interesting to see what that actually is, and why it wasn't introduced at the time.


Lots of rumours about before the case went to court, remember Rhyl is a small town but this is what I heard/read it may be true or not but the "victim" had previously accused a rugby player (a pro) of raping/assaulting her.
She posted things on FB etc suggesting she was going to stitch Evans(specifically) up then deleted all these and she was messaging people despite supposedly being "unconcsious" after the alleged attacks/assaults she didn't suggest she was in any distress apparently.

Ched Evans guilty or not has no morals, decorum or integrity.



I hadn't heard about Facebook but there were lots of rumours (whether true or not) about how she behaved pre and post incident.

Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (07 Oct 2015 9.57am)


Spunk Sponge who had an eye for a pay day.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View topcat's Profile topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 08 Oct 15 10.12am Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Oct 2015 9.57am

I hadn't heard about Facebook but there were lots of rumours (whether true or not) about how she behaved pre and post incident.


Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Spunk Sponge who had an eye for a pay day.

That's an awful thing to say about a victim of rape.

What sort of pay day does a victim of rape get?

Edited by topcat (08 Oct 2015 10.13am)

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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View kent675's Profile kent675 Flag Bromley, Kent 08 Oct 15 10.38am Send a Private Message to kent675 Add kent675 as a friend

Didn't I hear some time back that the cases at the Court of Appeal would now be televised, or was it another court?

jamiemartin721 can you answer ??

 


Four wheels drives the body - Two wheels drives the soul

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 09 Oct 15 9.11am Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote topcat at 08 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Oct 2015 9.57am

I hadn't heard about Facebook but there were lots of rumours (whether true or not) about how she behaved pre and post incident.


Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Spunk Sponge who had an eye for a pay day.

That's an awful thing to say about a victim of rape.

What sort of pay day does a victim of rape get?

Edited by topcat (08 Oct 2015 10.13am)

It would be if I believed she was a "victim", But I don’t. Based on the reports available including elements of the court case, I believe her to be nothing more than a cheap hoe bag, who was in it from the beginning to get some cash.

She even went on facebook and admitted as much. Don't get me wrong Ched Evans, like most modern young footballers is a reprehensible pr1ck, however he is IMO guilty of nothing more than having a pissed shag (havn't we all ?) and fell foul of a legal system that allows for this sort of buffoonery.

I come across this a lot in my particular job role, A lot of Army bases are in rural area’s and those who serve normally have a bit more cash on the hip than those local lads who do not. With all the perks a young soldier is a meal ticket for a lot of young women, and we have to verbalise to young guys to box clever. It’s a sad state of affairs when I have to brief young lads on the dangers of copping off with the local girls in case they a) get accused of rape, as has happened recently where the case was thrown out as the women was lying her arse off. Or b) they say they are on contraception but aren’t and then hit the guys for CSA.

Of course what this actually does, is make it even harder for real victims of rape to prove their case, but equally this mentality were all women are innocent victims is I’m afraid to say, utter bollicks.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View topcat's Profile topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 09 Oct 15 10.24am Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

Quote dannyh at 09 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote topcat at 08 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Oct 2015 9.57am

I hadn't heard about Facebook but there were lots of rumours (whether true or not) about how she behaved pre and post incident.


Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Spunk Sponge who had an eye for a pay day.

That's an awful thing to say about a victim of rape.

What sort of pay day does a victim of rape get?

Edited by topcat (08 Oct 2015 10.13am)

It would be if I believed she was a "victim", But I don’t. Based on the reports available including elements of the court case, I believe her to be nothing more than a cheap hoe bag, who was in it from the beginning to get some cash.

She even went on facebook and admitted as much. Don't get me wrong Ched Evans, like most modern young footballers is a reprehensible pr1ck, however he is IMO guilty of nothing more than having a pissed shag (havn't we all ?) and fell foul of a legal system that allows for this sort of buffoonery.

I come across this a lot in my particular job role, A lot of Army bases are in rural area’s and those who serve normally have a bit more cash on the hip than those local lads who do not. With all the perks a young soldier is a meal ticket for a lot of young women, and we have to verbalise to young guys to box clever. It’s a sad state of affairs when I have to brief young lads on the dangers of copping off with the local girls in case they a) get accused of rape, as has happened recently where the case was thrown out as the women was lying her arse off. Or b) they say they are on contraception but aren’t and then hit the guys for CSA.

Of course what this actually does, is make it even harder for real victims of rape to prove their case, but equally this mentality were all women are innocent victims is I’m afraid to say, utter bollicks.

Whilst I can't comment on the middle part of your post, I still can't see how you can have more knowledge of the case than the jury that found him guilty of rape and her therefore a victim of rape, a crime that is notoriously difficult to get a conviction for.

There is a lot of apparent evidence out there on the internet but as you know you can find evidence of anything on the internet if you look hard enough but it doesn't make it true.

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Oct 15 11.10am

Quote Cucking Funt at 06 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Oct 2015 4.27pm

Evans biggest problem has always been that he admitted having sex with her, under caution and oath. The police couldn't prove sex had taken place, but both defendants admitted it.

I think his only real recourse is to either prove she wasn't drunk, or discredit her and witnesses that say she was.

Apparently its evidence the original defense didn't submit, which is questionable, and some new evidence that has come to light. The latter is likely his best bet, because if the defense didn't submit something, its usually because its potentially incriminating or damaging. Especially when they didn't submit it to the first appeal application.


Whatever it is, it's sufficiently game-changing to go back to the Court of Appeal.

Potentially is the key word. A new witness for example might be available, who wasn't before, but that individual also wouldn't have been cross examined by prosecution either.

To go to the Court of Appeal it only has to fulfill the requirements for an appeal, not that it 'exonerates' and individual.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Oct 15 11.23am

Quote dannyh at 09 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote topcat at 08 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Oct 2015 9.57am

I hadn't heard about Facebook but there were lots of rumours (whether true or not) about how she behaved pre and post incident.


Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Spunk Sponge who had an eye for a pay day.

That's an awful thing to say about a victim of rape.

What sort of pay day does a victim of rape get?

Edited by topcat (08 Oct 2015 10.13am)

It would be if I believed she was a "victim", But I don’t. Based on the reports available including elements of the court case, I believe her to be nothing more than a cheap hoe bag, who was in it from the beginning to get some cash.

She even went on facebook and admitted as much. Don't get me wrong Ched Evans, like most modern young footballers is a reprehensible pr1ck, however he is IMO guilty of nothing more than having a pissed shag (havn't we all ?) and fell foul of a legal system that allows for this sort of buffoonery.

I come across this a lot in my particular job role, A lot of Army bases are in rural area’s and those who serve normally have a bit more cash on the hip than those local lads who do not. With all the perks a young soldier is a meal ticket for a lot of young women, and we have to verbalise to young guys to box clever. It’s a sad state of affairs when I have to brief young lads on the dangers of copping off with the local girls in case they a) get accused of rape, as has happened recently where the case was thrown out as the women was lying her arse off. Or b) they say they are on contraception but aren’t and then hit the guys for CSA.

Of course what this actually does, is make it even harder for real victims of rape to prove their case, but equally this mentality were all women are innocent victims is I’m afraid to say, utter bollicks.

The issue with Chad Evans though, is that he didn't have a 'drunk shag'. He turned up knowing that his friend had gotten a girl back, and that it was reasonable to assume that she was too drunk to give consent, and that it was unreasonable for Ched Evans, by his actions, to believe he had consent by actions.

The context of the situation is vitally important. His mate was not guilty, because it was reasonable for him by his actions and the girls, to believe he had consent (he met the girl, asked her to come back with him to the hotel room etc). Where as Ched Evans had never met the girl till he turned up, uninvited when he received a text from McDonald, about the girl. By his actions, if she was intoxicated, it is unreasonable for him to assume consent by way of actions and behavior.

Its different than if you met a girl who is drunk or gets drunk with you, and you go back and have sex. Its reasonable in that case to believe you have consent.

Ironically he'd have been found not guilty if he hadn't admitted to the police that he'd had sex with her. There is no evidence other than his own statement that he had sex with the girl.

He needs really to prove that she planned the event in advance of his arrival to some degree, was not sufficiently intoxicated and planned to accuse him. Even if she found out afterwards he was a footballer, and decided to 'earn of it', he is still guilty of rape (making the most of being a victim of crime might be unethical but its not illegal).


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 09 Oct 15 12.20pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote topcat at 09 Oct 2015 10.24am

Quote dannyh at 09 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote topcat at 08 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Oct 2015 9.57am

I hadn't heard about Facebook but there were lots of rumours (whether true or not) about how she behaved pre and post incident.


Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Spunk Sponge who had an eye for a pay day.

That's an awful thing to say about a victim of rape.

What sort of pay day does a victim of rape get?

Edited by topcat (08 Oct 2015 10.13am)

It would be if I believed she was a "victim", But I don’t. Based on the reports available including elements of the court case, I believe her to be nothing more than a cheap hoe bag, who was in it from the beginning to get some cash.

She even went on facebook and admitted as much. Don't get me wrong Ched Evans, like most modern young footballers is a reprehensible pr1ck, however he is IMO guilty of nothing more than having a pissed shag (havn't we all ?) and fell foul of a legal system that allows for this sort of buffoonery.

I come across this a lot in my particular job role, A lot of Army bases are in rural area’s and those who serve normally have a bit more cash on the hip than those local lads who do not. With all the perks a young soldier is a meal ticket for a lot of young women, and we have to verbalise to young guys to box clever. It’s a sad state of affairs when I have to brief young lads on the dangers of copping off with the local girls in case they a) get accused of rape, as has happened recently where the case was thrown out as the women was lying her arse off. Or b) they say they are on contraception but aren’t and then hit the guys for CSA.

Of course what this actually does, is make it even harder for real victims of rape to prove their case, but equally this mentality were all women are innocent victims is I’m afraid to say, utter bollicks.

Whilst I can't comment on the middle part of your post, I still can't see how you can have more knowledge of the case than the jury that found him guilty of rape and her therefore a victim of rape, a crime that is notoriously difficult to get a conviction for.

There is a lot of apparent evidence out there on the internet but as you know you can find evidence of anything on the internet if you look hard enough but it doesn't make it true.

Have a munch on this.


When the trial started in Caernarfon, the main thrust of the Prosecution’s case was that the complainant was so intoxicated that she would have been unable to consent and that spotting her vulnerability the two accused targeted her in a predatory fashion.

When interviewed by the Police following his arrest, Ched had stated that, as a well known footballer, if he wanted to have sex with a girl, there were plenty of opportunities for him to do so. This comment was not a boastful claim but merely an observation on the society we live in.


Of course, the Police knew exactly how these comments made under the extreme pressure of questioning at a Police station will play out in Court many months later in front of a Jury. Composed from a society that is constantly bombarded with anti-footballer media articles relating to the perceived arrogance and bad behaviour of some – they were not disappointed – the prosecution skilfully presented Ched’s words to the Jury in such a way as to make him look arrogant and conceited. And to complete the circle, the media reported Ched’s perceived arrogance to the society from which further Juries will be drawn.

The Prosecution produced CCTV of the complainant walking to and from the kebab shop. She was certainly swaying and unsteady on her feet. Further CCTV of the complainant turning her ankle and stumbling over in the kebab shop was put before the Jury. Finally, CCTV footage of the complainant entering the foyer of the Premier Inn and walking across the reception area was produced.

To counter this argument the Defence pointed out that within the CCTV footage there were numerous incidents that indicated that the complainant was capable of rational thought and decision making. Bearing in mind that the complainant’s intoxication was diminishing as time passed, it is notable that in the hour leading up to the incident in the hotel room, the CCTV footage showed the complainant was capable of:

Squatting down and rummaging through her handbag and getting back up in high heels;
Walking unaided;
Holding a conversation with other people;
Spurning the advances of another male;
Helping herself to food from other people in the kebab shop;
Ordering food;
Paying with the correct coinage;
Squatting in a doorway to urinate;
Reacting to a car flashing its lights; and
Remembering that she had left a pizza outside the Premier Inn and going back to retrieve it.

Further evidence showed that she was capable of:

Composing a coherent text message, correctly spelt and capitalized. (text sent to her friend at 02:54)
Responding to requests – she was asked by the taxi driver to get out of the back seat and get in the front because she was eating a pizza.
Requesting Clayton not to leave her – “you are not going to leave me are you”.

The agreed toxicology report evidenced the following:
blood alcohol levels of approximately 203mg of alcohol/100ml of blood or approximately 2.5 times the drink drive limit;
traces of cocaine;
traces of cannabis; and
no evidence of the complainant having been spiked.

Under cross examination the complainant claimed she was not a regular user of drugs and had taken the cocaine found in her system more than 1 week before the incident but could not remember exactly when, where or how she had procurred it. She was adamant that she did not and would not have taken cocaine in the night club on the night in question.

Expert evidence proved that the complainant was lying on oath on the stand about her cocaine consumption. The expert evidence suggested that either she was a very heavy user of cocaine or that she had taken the cocaine only 3-5 days before the incident. Either way, what she said on the stand did not correspond with the expert analysis.

Exactly why she lied about her cocaine use is not clear but the important point to note here is that there was no evidence to suggest that her intoxication levels were increased either through drugs or alcohol on the night in question.

Notwithstanding the above, in his summing up to the Jury the Judge introduced the theory that the complainant’s level of intoxication could have been increased by the consumption of more alcohol and/or drugs into her system after she had lost her memory. There was absolutely no evidence to support this theory.

At Caernarvon Crown Court the evidence was presented to the Jury over 8 days. The sitting Jury had been on Jury duty for 3 weeks. On Friday 20th April the Jury members left the Court to deliberate. After 4 hours, the Jury sent a message to the Judge saying that they could not come to a unanimous decision on both counts. The Judge chose not to exercise his discretion to give the Jury the option to return a majority verdict and sent them back out to further deliberate the case. It was clear that should the Jury not reach a unanimous decision by the end of that Friday session they would have to come back to the Court the following Monday and start what was for some a fourth week of service.

Approximately 50 minutes later the Jury returned two unanimous decisions - finding Clayton McDonald innocent and Ched Evans guilty. Clayton McDonald was acquitted. Ched Evans was sentenced to 5 years imprisonment.
After the jury reached its verdict, the Judge immediately went on to sentence Ched Evans. During the course of his sentencing comments, it was apparent that he had not accounted for the eventual verdicts being one of guilty and one of not guilty.

One could conclude that if the jury found that the complainant had consensual sex with Clayton McDonald then the sex that occurred with Ched would be consensual as well as the issue was over her ability to consent and she of course could remember no sexual activity at all.

After Ched was sentenced, Philpott the prosecuting barrister went over to Ched's parents and said 'I am so sorry'.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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