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Ched Evans saga part ???

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View Part Time James's Profile Part Time James Flag 07 Jan 15 10.10am Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

Quote JohnB at 07 Jan 2015 10.08am

I'm not so sure he even raped her. How can you rape someone who gives you a blowy?


True. It's not murder if someone punches you first either. Just shenanigans.

Edited by Part Time James (07 Jan 2015 10.11am)

 




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View JohnB's Profile JohnB Flag 07 Jan 15 10.21am Send a Private Message to JohnB Add JohnB as a friend

Quote Part Time James at 07 Jan 2015 10.10am

Quote JohnB at 07 Jan 2015 10.08am

I'm not so sure he even raped her. How can you rape someone who gives you a blowy?


True. It's not murder if someone punches you first either. Just shenanigans.

Edited by Part Time James (07 Jan 2015 10.11am)


No it's self defence.

I would read this and then come up with your own conclusion. [Link]

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 07 Jan 15 10.25am Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Quote JohnB at 07 Jan 2015 10.21am

Quote Part Time James at 07 Jan 2015 10.10am

Quote JohnB at 07 Jan 2015 10.08am

I'm not so sure he even raped her. How can you rape someone who gives you a blowy?


True. It's not murder if someone punches you first either. Just shenanigans.

Edited by Part Time James (07 Jan 2015 10.11am)


No it's self defence.

I would read this and then come up with your own conclusion. [Link]

As it happens, I have read that (it was quoted in one of the long running Ched Evans threads before). It says he raped her as she did not consent (because she was unable to do so).

And if someone punches you. And you then stab them/shoot them, that is murder.

Edited by OknotOK (07 Jan 2015 10.28am)

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Hoof Hearted 07 Jan 15 10.30am

I'm with Ian J and Sash etc.

Evans is no worse than other offenders that have been allowed back in to play..... how many times has Joey Barton offended?

You cannot have arbitrary rules applied on emotive feelings.

Either all offenders are banned or not at all.

I am also not convinced about the safety of the Ched Evans' verdict either.

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 07 Jan 15 10.37am Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 10.30am

I'm with Ian J and Sash etc.

Evans is no worse than other offenders that have been allowed back in to play..... how many times has Joey Barton offended?

You cannot have arbitrary rules applied on emotive feelings.

Either all offenders are banned or not at all.

I am also not convinced about the safety of the Ched Evans' verdict either.

I don't know of many that have actually called seriously for him to be banned. They have just said they don't want him playing for their club.

And clubs have to weigh up the potential gains (playing side only as far as I can see) against the potential damage (financial, reputational) of employing him.

I wouldn't want him playing for our club. And I suspect a lot of fans and sponsors wouldn't want to be associated with a club that does employ him. There's no ban involved. It is the free market working.

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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View We are goin up!'s Profile We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 07 Jan 15 10.39am Send a Private Message to We are goin up! Add We are goin up! as a friend

My personal view is that once someone has served his time, he should be given the same opportunity to get employment as everyone else. Why should football be any different?

Having said that, Evans has made no attempt to distance himself from the abuse that the victim has been getting and the trouble it has caused her, which he should even if just for a PR point of view.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Jan 15 10.58am

Quote JohnB at 07 Jan 2015 10.08am

I'm not so sure he even raped her. How can you rape someone who gives you a blowy?

He's guilty because he essentially engineered a situation where he took advantage of someone who was clearly intoxicated, with malicious intent.

Evans needs to understand that he was effectively guilty the moment the jury could prove that he knew McDonald had brought a girl home, and gained access to the hotel room (by deception) and then sneaked out (again by deception). There is no basis for him to assume he had informed consent due to his actions.

Funny enough, if you break into someones room, have sex with them when they drunk and then sneak out, you're a rapist.

McDonald is lucky that that they couldn't demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that his role was to procure a drunk woman.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Jan 15 10.59am

Quote We are goin up! at 07 Jan 2015 10.39am

My personal view is that once someone has served his time, he should be given the same opportunity to get employment as everyone else. Why should football be any different?

Having said that, Evans has made no attempt to distance himself from the abuse that the victim has been getting and the trouble it has caused her, which he should even if just for a PR point of view.

True, but then I can also see why sponsors and fans might not want to be paying a convicted sex offenders wages.

I can't see many people expecting Stuart Hall to return to radio broadcasting when he gets out.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Jan 15 11.05am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 10.30am

I'm with Ian J and Sash etc.

Evans is no worse than other offenders that have been allowed back in to play..... how many times has Joey Barton offended?

You cannot have arbitrary rules applied on emotive feelings.

Either all offenders are banned or not at all.

I am also not convinced about the safety of the Ched Evans' verdict either.

The conviction is for rape though, arguably the second most serious crime on the statute, and probably the most controversial socially.

Whilst King and Barton were convicted, imprisoned for serious offences, they weren't sexual offences (ok Kings was kind of, he punched a woman who wouldn't go home with him).

Where as Evans was convicted of raping a woman. Short of murdering her, or committing an act of treason, its the most serious crime a person can commit.

Other cases, drunk driving etc don't have that same degree of premeditation to cause harm - Even Barton and Kings offences can be placed into a context of events, where as Evans willfully committed to committing a rape.

Rolf Harris won't be returning to the BBC in a few years either, and I doubt Max Clifford can look forward to a high profile career either.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hoof Hearted 07 Jan 15 11.08am

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 10.37am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 10.30am

I'm with Ian J and Sash etc.

Evans is no worse than other offenders that have been allowed back in to play..... how many times has Joey Barton offended?

You cannot have arbitrary rules applied on emotive feelings.

Either all offenders are banned or not at all.

I am also not convinced about the safety of the Ched Evans' verdict either.

I don't know of many that have actually called seriously for him to be banned. They have just said they don't want him playing for their club.

And clubs have to weigh up the potential gains (playing side only as far as I can see) against the potential damage (financial, reputational) of employing him.

I wouldn't want him playing for our club. And I suspect a lot of fans and sponsors wouldn't want to be associated with a club that does employ him. There's no ban involved. It is the free market working.

It's the same pressure that is being applied to UKIP by branding them racist.

Free market....... my arse!

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 07 Jan 15 11.20am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Jan 2015 10.58am

Quote JohnB at 07 Jan 2015 10.08am

I'm not so sure he even raped her. How can you rape someone who gives you a blowy?

He's guilty because he essentially engineered a situation where he took advantage of someone who was clearly intoxicated, with malicious intent.

Evans needs to understand that he was effectively guilty the moment the jury could prove that he knew McDonald had brought a girl home, and gained access to the hotel room (by deception) and then sneaked out (again by deception). There is no basis for him to assume he had informed consent due to his actions.

Funny enough, if you break into someones room, have sex with them when they drunk and then sneak out, you're a rapist.

McDonald is lucky that that they couldn't demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that his role was to procure a drunk woman.



Again Jamie, you claim certainty for events that you can't be sure of.

You assume that he raped this girl, you can't know it.

I don't personally feel the level of evidence you state is sufficient of this conviction and I think the verdict is going to change.

There are a lot of uncertainties in this case portrayed as facts.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 07 Jan 15 11.22am Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 11.08am

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 10.37am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 10.30am

I'm with Ian J and Sash etc.

Evans is no worse than other offenders that have been allowed back in to play..... how many times has Joey Barton offended?

You cannot have arbitrary rules applied on emotive feelings.

Either all offenders are banned or not at all.

I am also not convinced about the safety of the Ched Evans' verdict either.

I don't know of many that have actually called seriously for him to be banned. They have just said they don't want him playing for their club.

And clubs have to weigh up the potential gains (playing side only as far as I can see) against the potential damage (financial, reputational) of employing him.

I wouldn't want him playing for our club. And I suspect a lot of fans and sponsors wouldn't want to be associated with a club that does employ him. There's no ban involved. It is the free market working.

It's the same pressure that is being applied to UKIP by branding them racist.

Free market....... my arse!

It is entirely a free market within current conditions.

The club can choose to employ the player if they wish. No one has stopped them. No one has told them they can't.

But any one associated with the club has the right to then express their unhappiness. And that includes the sponsors as well as the fans/board/manager (who in the case of Oldham apparently doesn't want him anyway).

The club can choose to ignore those expressions and bear the financial and reputational consequences. Or they can choose to not employ him. There's no ban. People are allowed to apply pressure within a market economy and the company/brand can choose to respond as it wants.

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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