Times Tables failure = forced academy.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 10.36pm
Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 9.40pm Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.29pm Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions. Charity Registration Number: 1096300 Policy Exchange: an organisation established by Michael Gove and other leading Conservative Party members, and which describes itself as seeking “free market” solutions to public policy problems (i.e. privatisation). Although a registered charity, it does not release the names of its funders. Moreover, although its financial statement describes most of its spending as ‘research’, much of this appears to be devising and advocating Conservative Party policy. Indeed, its 2012-13 accounts boast of its influence on government policy including increasing chain-sponsored academies, the mandatory work scheme for unemployed people, and Prevent. (This report on free schools was funded particularly by Krishna Rao and Jeremy Isaacs of Goldmann Sachs, who also funded an earlier report on teachers’ performance pay.) This is all ad hominem. Mea culpa. I could have paraphrased, but am on me phone. It's from the NUT. The info would have been the same regardless.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 10.36pm

Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 9.40pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.29pm

Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm

Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions.

Charity Registration Number: 1096300

Policy Exchange: an organisation established by Michael Gove and other leading Conservative Party members, and which describes itself as seeking “free market” solutions to public policy problems (i.e. privatisation).

Although a registered charity, it does not release the names of its funders. Moreover, although its financial statement describes most of its spending as ‘research’, much of this appears to be devising and advocating Conservative Party policy. Indeed, its 2012-13 accounts boast of its influence on government policy including increasing chain-sponsored academies, the mandatory work scheme for unemployed people, and Prevent. (This report on free schools was funded particularly by Krishna Rao and Jeremy Isaacs of Goldmann Sachs, who also funded an earlier report on teachers’ performance pay.)

This is all ad hominem.

Mea culpa. I could have paraphrased, but am on me phone. It's from the NUT. The info would have been the same regardless.

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TUX redhill 10 Mar 15 10.36pm
Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.46pm . Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 9.46pm) I guess the question was too hard to answer.
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TUX

redhill 10 Mar 15 10.36pm

Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.46pm

Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 9.46pm)

I guess the question was too hard to answer.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 10.38pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright! How did that happen? Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence. Plenty of thick c**ts around in every generation. It's cunds. Going by classes I've taught over the last 15 years, you'll always get a range of abilities and (academic) intelligence. Bell curve and all that.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 10.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm

Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm

We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright!
How did that happen?

Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence.

Plenty of thick c**ts around in every generation.

It's cunds.

Going by classes I've taught over the last 15 years, you'll always get a range of abilities and (academic) intelligence.
Bell curve and all that.

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TUX redhill 10 Mar 15 11.00pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright! How did that happen? Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence. Plenty of thick cts around in every generation. I was referring to the global education figures and how we've dropped down the list over recent years. Kinda worrying imo. And I agree, there are thick cts in every generation.
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TUX

redhill 10 Mar 15 11.00pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm

Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm

We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright!
How did that happen?

Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence.

Plenty of thick c**ts around in every generation.

I was referring to the global education figures and how we've dropped down the list over recent years. Kinda worrying imo.
And I agree, there are thick c**ts in every generation.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 11.15pm
[Link] This makes an interesting read, as does [Link] The first link (a peer reviewed academic piece) concludes that there isn't enough evidence either way that free schools are a success or failure, so Cameron and Morgan are wrong to make the claims that they do. The second is a parliamentary report that shows the education minister is exaggerating how good free schools and academies are. My opposition to academies comes partly (other than the transference of over £1billion of PUBLIC assets to academies to sell and pocket the profit among other things) after working with Alisdair Smith of the Anti Academies Alliance. He's seen evidence that free schools and academies (at secondary level) massage their exam results by pulling kids out of exams if they think they are going to fail because they don't want the overall results dragged down! It's also worth looking at news reports about schools that have been or are about to be changed to academy status. In a lot of cases, if a governing body are against the change, they are removed and replaced by IEB's - interim executive boards, which help steamroller the change. Schools are forced into academisation despite overwhelming opposition from parents. see [Link] for an example. Also worth looking at [Link] (yes it's biased because it is from an anti academies group) that highlights many failures of the academy and free school experiment.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 11.15pm

[Link]

This makes an interesting read, as does
[Link]

The first link (a peer reviewed academic piece) concludes that there isn't enough evidence either way that free schools are a success or failure, so Cameron and Morgan are wrong to make the claims that they do.

The second is a parliamentary report that shows the education minister is exaggerating how good free schools and academies are.

My opposition to academies comes partly (other than the transference of over £1billion of PUBLIC assets to academies to sell and pocket the profit among other things) after working with Alisdair Smith of the Anti Academies Alliance. He's seen evidence that free schools and academies (at secondary level) massage their exam results by pulling kids out of exams if they think they are going to fail because they don't want the overall results dragged down!

It's also worth looking at news reports about schools that have been or are about to be changed to academy status. In a lot of cases, if a governing body are against the change, they are removed and replaced by IEB's - interim executive boards, which help steamroller the change. Schools are forced into academisation despite overwhelming opposition from parents. see [Link] for an example.

Also worth looking at [Link] (yes it's biased because it is from an anti academies group) that highlights many failures of the academy and free school experiment.

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legaleagle 10 Mar 15 11.19pm
Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 10.36pm Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.46pm . Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 9.46pm) I guess the question was too hard to answer. far too hard
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legaleagle

10 Mar 15 11.19pm

Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 10.36pm

Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.46pm

Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 9.46pm)

I guess the question was too hard to answer.

far too hard

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 11.19pm
Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 11.00pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright! How did that happen? Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence. Plenty of thick cts around in every generation. I was referring to the global education figures and how we've dropped down the list over recent years. Kinda worrying imo. And I agree, there are thick cts in every generation. Depends what list you look at. There are a few different ones. We do well in some, not so well in others- I'm off to bed so won't search for them tonight. However this [Link] shows we are second best in Europe and 6th in the world using rankings that are based upon an amalgamation of international tests and education data - including the OECD's Pisa tests, and two major US-based studies, Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (Timss) and Progress in International Reading Literacy Study (Pirls). Edited by nickgusset (10 Mar 2015 11.20pm)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 11.19pm

Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 11.00pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm

Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm

We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright!
How did that happen?

Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence.

Plenty of thick c**ts around in every generation.

I was referring to the global education figures and how we've dropped down the list over recent years. Kinda worrying imo.
And I agree, there are thick c**ts in every generation.

Depends what list you look at. There are a few different ones. We do well in some, not so well in others- I'm off to bed so won't search for them tonight. However this [Link] shows we are second best in Europe and 6th in the world using rankings that are based upon an amalgamation of international tests and education data - including the OECD's Pisa tests, and two major US-based studies, Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (Timss) and Progress in International Reading Literacy Study (Pirls).

Edited by nickgusset (10 Mar 2015 11.20pm)

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legaleagle 10 Mar 15 11.28pm
Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 11.00pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright! How did that happen? Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence. Plenty of thick cts around in every generation. I was referring to the global education figures and how we've dropped down the list over recent years. Kinda worrying imo. And I agree, there are thick cts in every generation. A very interesting question,and one too important for knee jerk quick fix political responses.This is what the OECD had to say about educational attainment here in 2014 [Link] And some 2013 OECD international comparisons here [Link] Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 11.29pm)
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legaleagle

10 Mar 15 11.28pm

Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 11.00pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm

Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm

We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright!
How did that happen?

Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence.

Plenty of thick c**ts around in every generation.

I was referring to the global education figures and how we've dropped down the list over recent years. Kinda worrying imo.
And I agree, there are thick c**ts in every generation.

A very interesting question,and one too important for knee jerk quick fix political responses.This is what the OECD had to say about educational attainment here in 2014

[Link]

And some 2013 OECD international comparisons here

[Link]

Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 11.29pm)

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Eunectes Aberystwyth 11 Mar 15 12.54am
Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 10.38pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright! How did that happen? Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence. Plenty of thick c**ts around in every generation. It's cunds. Going by classes I've taught over the last 15 years, you'll always get a range of abilities and (academic) intelligence. Bell curve and all that. It's not just ability or intelligence, but techniques. I've always struggled to learn anything "parrot fashion", no idea why but it just doesn't work (and not for lack of trying). I struggled massively with the standard approach of learning times tables etc. and was destined to fail my GCSE maths abysmally. Thankfully the "thicko" group teacher actually spent time showing me different ways of approaching mathematical problems and I ended up passing. I've since engaged in postgraduate study in a field based massively in maths, and am just waiting for conformation of my first journal paper being published on population genetics (again almost entirely mathematical in basis). Still can't recite my times tables, and occasionally count on my fingers, but haven't found either to be any genuine impediment in life.
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Eunectes

Aberystwyth 11 Mar 15 12.54am

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 10.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Mar 2015 10.35pm

Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm

We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright!
How did that happen?

Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence.

Plenty of thick c**ts around in every generation.

It's cunds.

Going by classes I've taught over the last 15 years, you'll always get a range of abilities and (academic) intelligence.
Bell curve and all that.

It's not just ability or intelligence, but techniques. I've always struggled to learn anything "parrot fashion", no idea why but it just doesn't work (and not for lack of trying). I struggled massively with the standard approach of learning times tables etc. and was destined to fail my GCSE maths abysmally. Thankfully the "thicko" group teacher actually spent time showing me different ways of approaching mathematical problems and I ended up passing. I've since engaged in postgraduate study in a field based massively in maths, and am just waiting for conformation of my first journal paper being published on population genetics (again almost entirely mathematical in basis).

Still can't recite my times tables, and occasionally count on my fingers, but haven't found either to be any genuine impediment in life.

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NickinOX Sailing country. 11 Mar 15 1.20am
Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 10.36pm Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 9.40pm Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.29pm Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions. Charity Registration Number: 1096300 Policy Exchange: an organisation established by Michael Gove and other leading Conservative Party members, and which describes itself as seeking “free market” solutions to public policy problems (i.e. privatisation). Although a registered charity, it does not release the names of its funders. Moreover, although its financial statement describes most of its spending as ‘research’, much of this appears to be devising and advocating Conservative Party policy. Indeed, its 2012-13 accounts boast of its influence on government policy including increasing chain-sponsored academies, the mandatory work scheme for unemployed people, and Prevent. (This report on free schools was funded particularly by Krishna Rao and Jeremy Isaacs of Goldmann Sachs, who also funded an earlier report on teachers’ performance pay.) This is all ad hominem. Mea culpa. I could have paraphrased, but am on me phone. It's from the NUT. The info would have been the same regardless. No problem. However, if the above was from the NUT that would be disappointing. I would expect them to do a far better job setting out their case, showing people where the information came from and why it was unreliable, and then offering a better solution supported by evidence. That being said, I saw the links you posted later on and they were much better set out. If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
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NickinOX

Sailing country. 11 Mar 15 1.20am

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 10.36pm

Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 9.40pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.29pm

Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm

Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions.

Charity Registration Number: 1096300

This is all ad hominem.

Mea culpa. I could have paraphrased, but am on me phone. It's from the NUT. The info would have been the same regardless.

No problem. However, if the above was from the NUT that would be disappointing. I would expect them to do a far better job setting out their case, showing people where the information came from and why it was unreliable, and then offering a better solution supported by evidence.

That being said, I saw the links you posted later on and they were much better set out.

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Mar 15 8.27pm
[Link] Been thinking this for a while now.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 13 Mar 15 8.27pm

[Link]

Been thinking this for a while now.

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Stirlingsays 13 Mar 15 8.33pm
Quote Lyons550 at 10 Mar 2015 1.18pm Quote nickgusset at 01 Feb 2015 11.22am Under Tory cund plans, if all students do not know their times tables on leaving primary school for 2 years in a row, a school can be forced into being an academy. How stupid! Whilst I acknowledge that rapid recall of multiplication facts is a good thing, there is no way on God's earth that all children are capable of learning them. [Link] Surely that depends on the quality of the teachers? Fifteen percent of the population have IQs of around 85 percent. Teachers are one component of the equation.....Source material another....Parental culture another. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Mar 15 8.33pm

Quote Lyons550 at 10 Mar 2015 1.18pm

Quote nickgusset at 01 Feb 2015 11.22am

Under Tory cund plans, if all students do not know their times tables on leaving primary school for 2 years in a row, a school can be forced into being an academy. How stupid! Whilst I acknowledge that rapid recall of multiplication facts is a good thing, there is no way on God's earth that all children are capable of learning them.
[Link]

Surely that depends on the quality of the teachers?

Fifteen percent of the population have IQs of around 85 percent.

Teachers are one component of the equation.....Source material another....Parental culture another.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Times Tables failure = forced academy.

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