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View fed up eagle's Profile fed up eagle Flag Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 24 Jul 15 7.49pm Send a Private Message to fed up eagle Add fed up eagle as a friend

There is no war on drugs anymore. Police turn a blind eye because they know that they'll be forced to take on a mountain of paperwork, and it's readily available on every street corner and every side alley.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Jul 15 7.59pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Superfly at 24 Jul 2015 3.55pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 3.36pm

Quote We are goin up! at 16 Feb 2015 9.19am

Should be legal, as should ecstasy. Both are a lot less harmful/addictive than alcohol and smoking, as outlined by the drugs report commissioned by the government, who then sacked the guy who wrote it (forget his name) because it didn't fit in with their policy. Would also be much safer than picking up off a dealer that's mixed it with all sorts, meaning less deaths (that's what we all want right?) and would make the government a sh*t load in cash, as well as reducing street crime. What's not to like?

The government selling it does not mean people will stop buying from the black market. The market will always be cheaper and will always ignore restrictions. People will still be attracted to that and the usual suspects or the unlucky ones will still die.


Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jul 2015 3.44pm)


Pretty much the opposite is true. The legal market/government would be able to produce it at a fraction of the cost of the black market.

No it isn't, I researched this a while back on another thread....Some state in America. The black market still operates. Research it yourself.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Jul 15 8.10pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote dannyb1 at 24 Jul 2015 4.00pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 3.42pm

This debate should really be dead.

The legalizing process has already happened around in the world in various places.

The results are mixed. Some countries have even reverted back or become stricter. Some have kept the legalization but there are still opponents.

Many of the claims put forward by the pro lobby are over the top......It doesn't end up solving what is claimed.

It's swings and roundabouts and it's far more about what kind of society you want to live in than a solution to any particular problem.

I'm kind of anti junkie.....So I'm for whatever reduces the amount of drugs taken......Whatever does that I'll sign up for.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jul 2015 3.46pm)

I'm sorry which countries have reverted back?

The claims for the anti lobby are a lot lot worse which has resulted in a magnitude of young (mainly black or Hispanic) male adults incarcerated which looks to be on the turn with the clemency given by Obama.
The second or third link I gave was an article about the anti lobby who were being funded by pharma company's who push heroin for a living and would be crushed if cannabis were legal.

I researched it a while ago on a different thread, I can't remember the specifics. But you can research it if you want to.

What I do remember is that when you look at the results of legalising drugs in an even handed way you see that there isn't really a clear win for either side of the debate.

Don't go asking me to spend the ages I did last time checking it out.....You do it.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View matthau's Profile matthau Flag South Croydon 24 Jul 15 8.21pm Send a Private Message to matthau Add matthau as a friend

It's all one big smokescreen

most drugs made illegal to cover up the one drug

that is not a drug..

dmt and ayahuasca... if people took time to look into this one...society would change over night...world peace wouldn't be too far off.


 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Jul 15 8.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Jul 2015 4.18pm


I want to live in a society where people have the right to choose for themselves how they recreationally alter their consciousness, because there is no really clear consensus.

Its the last of the morality laws. Now that its ok to be gay, black, dance on sundays, gamble, drink, screw and otherwise take pleasure in your self. There has always been, in this country, a strong moral group who expect others to abide by their traditions and demands, and reject the idea of anything different.

I'm kind of with you to a certain extent.....I'm just reacting to the ideological position of this is a 'right or wrong' matter. It really comes down to the society you want to live in.

Personally I still can't stand most junkies...Well the ones I met....And most definitely junkie culture....But that's ok....Everyone's different and have the right to be. No one forces me or mine to smoke or sniff anything......We even get stoner comedies now and everybody laughs.....Except stiffs like me.

I'd prefer the system to either just go hard core and ban all non medical usage of mind altering drugs or just allow it completely.

Consistency of message.....Not the current soft but tut tut acceptance.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Superfly's Profile Superfly Flag The sun always shines in Catford 27 Jul 15 9.22am Send a Private Message to Superfly Add Superfly as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 7.59pm

Quote Superfly at 24 Jul 2015 3.55pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 3.36pm

Quote We are goin up! at 16 Feb 2015 9.19am

Should be legal, as should ecstasy. Both are a lot less harmful/addictive than alcohol and smoking, as outlined by the drugs report commissioned by the government, who then sacked the guy who wrote it (forget his name) because it didn't fit in with their policy. Would also be much safer than picking up off a dealer that's mixed it with all sorts, meaning less deaths (that's what we all want right?) and would make the government a sh*t load in cash, as well as reducing street crime. What's not to like?

The government selling it does not mean people will stop buying from the black market. The market will always be cheaper and will always ignore restrictions. People will still be attracted to that and the usual suspects or the unlucky ones will still die.


Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jul 2015 3.44pm)


Pretty much the opposite is true. The legal market/government would be able to produce it at a fraction of the cost of the black market.

No it isn't, I researched this a while back on another thread....Some state in America. The black market still operates. Research it yourself.


The States is in its infancy. There's zero black market for weed in the Netherlands.

 


Lend me a Tenor

31 May to 3 June 2017

John McIntosh Arts Centre
London Oratory School
SW6 1RX

with Superfly in the chorus
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 27 Jul 15 9.34am

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 8.23pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Jul 2015 4.18pm


I want to live in a society where people have the right to choose for themselves how they recreationally alter their consciousness, because there is no really clear consensus.

Its the last of the morality laws. Now that its ok to be gay, black, dance on sundays, gamble, drink, screw and otherwise take pleasure in your self. There has always been, in this country, a strong moral group who expect others to abide by their traditions and demands, and reject the idea of anything different.

I'm kind of with you to a certain extent.....I'm just reacting to the ideological position of this is a 'right or wrong' matter. It really comes down to the society you want to live in.

Personally I still can't stand most junkies...Well the ones I met....And most definitely junkie culture....But that's ok....Everyone's different and have the right to be. No one forces me or mine to smoke or sniff anything......We even get stoner comedies now and everybody laughs.....Except stiffs like me.

I'd prefer the system to either just go hard core and ban all non medical usage of mind altering drugs or just allow it completely.

Consistency of message.....Not the current soft but tut tut acceptance.

Even in my days of heavy use, and habit, I couldn't abide junkies any more than I can pathetic alcoholics. I've known heroin users who aren't junkies as well, which you don't tend to hear about (never had a problem with it myself either).

The problem, I think, is that the tried and tested approach failed. It doesn't serve the pragmatic best interests of non-users, drug users or society in general, the only people who actually benefit from it, pragmatically speaking, are criminals, especially in the trafficking and distribution levels.

A conservative estimate is that the UK spends 12bn a year on cannabis. Only a tiny percentage of this enters the economy, through laundered front taxation or 'trickle down effect'.

The problem with a moral stance, is of course, morality is entirely subjective and based on a false premis (that it actually does any good, which it doesn't). The criminal justice solution just ends up criminalizing people who haven't really caused any harm, and pushing them out of a lot of gainful employment.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 27 Jul 15 9.35am

Quote matthau at 24 Jul 2015 8.21pm

It's all one big smokescreen

most drugs made illegal to cover up the one drug

that is not a drug..

dmt and ayahuasca... if people took time to look into this one...society would change over night...world peace wouldn't be too far off.


ayahuasca isn't illegal in the UK.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 27 Jul 15 9.39am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Quote Superfly at 27 Jul 2015 9.22am

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 7.59pm

Quote Superfly at 24 Jul 2015 3.55pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 3.36pm

Quote We are goin up! at 16 Feb 2015 9.19am

Should be legal, as should ecstasy. Both are a lot less harmful/addictive than alcohol and smoking, as outlined by the drugs report commissioned by the government, who then sacked the guy who wrote it (forget his name) because it didn't fit in with their policy. Would also be much safer than picking up off a dealer that's mixed it with all sorts, meaning less deaths (that's what we all want right?) and would make the government a sh*t load in cash, as well as reducing street crime. What's not to like?

The government selling it does not mean people will stop buying from the black market. The market will always be cheaper and will always ignore restrictions. People will still be attracted to that and the usual suspects or the unlucky ones will still die.


Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jul 2015 3.44pm)


Pretty much the opposite is true. The legal market/government would be able to produce it at a fraction of the cost of the black market.

No it isn't, I researched this a while back on another thread....Some state in America. The black market still operates. Research it yourself.


The States is in its infancy. There's zero black market for weed in the Netherlands.


Still not legal in Holland though is it.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 27 Jul 15 9.41am

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 8.10pm

Quote dannyb1 at 24 Jul 2015 4.00pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 3.42pm

This debate should really be dead.

The legalizing process has already happened around in the world in various places.

The results are mixed. Some countries have even reverted back or become stricter. Some have kept the legalization but there are still opponents.

Many of the claims put forward by the pro lobby are over the top......It doesn't end up solving what is claimed.

It's swings and roundabouts and it's far more about what kind of society you want to live in than a solution to any particular problem.

I'm kind of anti junkie.....So I'm for whatever reduces the amount of drugs taken......Whatever does that I'll sign up for.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jul 2015 3.46pm)

I'm sorry which countries have reverted back?

The claims for the anti lobby are a lot lot worse which has resulted in a magnitude of young (mainly black or Hispanic) male adults incarcerated which looks to be on the turn with the clemency given by Obama.
The second or third link I gave was an article about the anti lobby who were being funded by pharma company's who push heroin for a living and would be crushed if cannabis were legal.

I researched it a while ago on a different thread, I can't remember the specifics. But you can research it if you want to.

What I do remember is that when you look at the results of legalising drugs in an even handed way you see that there isn't really a clear win for either side of the debate.

Don't go asking me to spend the ages I did last time checking it out.....You do it.

Switzland did, but you have to remember that Switzland decriminalized possession and small scale sales, whilst all of its neighbors didn't, resulting in a massive drug tourist trade (ie a lot of people moved or travelled to Switzland to buy and sell drugs).

Similarly Holland changed its laws because of its image of Amsterdam, which had become a drug and sex tourism spot for the world.

Both countries changed tack, not because of the failure of the policy, but because the policy generated a form of tourism that became unpopular. The rest of Holland curiously escapes the clamp down on sex and cafes.

Its worth noting that Amsterdam took a sizable hit in tourism income as a result of its decision, and that essentially has since pretty much gone back to what it was.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Superfly's Profile Superfly Flag The sun always shines in Catford 27 Jul 15 9.45am Send a Private Message to Superfly Add Superfly as a friend

Quote chris123 at 27 Jul 2015 9.39am

Quote Superfly at 27 Jul 2015 9.22am

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 7.59pm

Quote Superfly at 24 Jul 2015 3.55pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 3.36pm

Quote We are goin up! at 16 Feb 2015 9.19am

Should be legal, as should ecstasy. Both are a lot less harmful/addictive than alcohol and smoking, as outlined by the drugs report commissioned by the government, who then sacked the guy who wrote it (forget his name) because it didn't fit in with their policy. Would also be much safer than picking up off a dealer that's mixed it with all sorts, meaning less deaths (that's what we all want right?) and would make the government a sh*t load in cash, as well as reducing street crime. What's not to like?

The government selling it does not mean people will stop buying from the black market. The market will always be cheaper and will always ignore restrictions. People will still be attracted to that and the usual suspects or the unlucky ones will still die.


Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jul 2015 3.44pm)


Pretty much the opposite is true. The legal market/government would be able to produce it at a fraction of the cost of the black market.

No it isn't, I researched this a while back on another thread....Some state in America. The black market still operates. Research it yourself.


The States is in its infancy. There's zero black market for weed in the Netherlands.


Still not legal in Holland though is it.


No, it's decriminalised. Not sure what point you're making though chief If it was legal in the Netherlands it wouldn't strenghthen the black market.

 


Lend me a Tenor

31 May to 3 June 2017

John McIntosh Arts Centre
London Oratory School
SW6 1RX

with Superfly in the chorus
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 27 Jul 15 9.47am

Quote chris123 at 27 Jul 2015 9.39am

Quote Superfly at 27 Jul 2015 9.22am

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 7.59pm

Quote Superfly at 24 Jul 2015 3.55pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2015 3.36pm

Quote We are goin up! at 16 Feb 2015 9.19am

Should be legal, as should ecstasy. Both are a lot less harmful/addictive than alcohol and smoking, as outlined by the drugs report commissioned by the government, who then sacked the guy who wrote it (forget his name) because it didn't fit in with their policy. Would also be much safer than picking up off a dealer that's mixed it with all sorts, meaning less deaths (that's what we all want right?) and would make the government a sh*t load in cash, as well as reducing street crime. What's not to like?

The government selling it does not mean people will stop buying from the black market. The market will always be cheaper and will always ignore restrictions. People will still be attracted to that and the usual suspects or the unlucky ones will still die.


Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jul 2015 3.44pm)


Pretty much the opposite is true. The legal market/government would be able to produce it at a fraction of the cost of the black market.

No it isn't, I researched this a while back on another thread....Some state in America. The black market still operates. Research it yourself.


The States is in its infancy. There's zero black market for weed in the Netherlands.


Still not legal in Holland though is it.

It would require the UN or a major UN power to overturn the International prohibition treaties that underpin most countries drug laws.

In the US, you still have a black market because cannabis requires a 'medical' reason, and only a few states have decriminalized cannabis. What has happened however is a lot of people who were in the illegal weed business, have gone legit. But because the laws are more a technicality, you'll find a lot of places aren't serviced by legal trade (after all who is going to open a Legal Weed shop in a crime ridden gang heavy area). Especially when you look at how much these businesses turn over, and the problems with banking money (a federal crime).

So the reality is that 'legal' weed in the US is predominately a working class (middle and upper) and middle class phenomena.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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