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View rob1969's Profile rob1969 Flag Banstead Surrey 21 Feb 15 1.37pm Send a Private Message to rob1969 Add rob1969 as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 11.06am

Quote rob1969 at 21 Feb 2015 10.47am

We could send a carrier force! Oh dam haven't got one now - but will have soon - dam - no bloody aircraft on it ! Well done DC

Yup....But I think that was originally Labour's cock up.

Maybe but continued and made worse over last five years by DC & co.

On the subject of defence.
The UK has since 1945 been seen by the US as its number one western military ally. However in recent years it apparent that the UK may still talk the talk but cannot match the words with capability. This was underlined to US by our inability to successfully operate independently in Afghanistan where on several occasion the US had to come to our support. The UK still has some of the best military manpower but in insufficient numbers to do the tasks still expected of them - and poorly /under equipped. Either we want to be among the 'big boys' in which case we must pay the realistic cost or accept that we are now only an average European power and be treated as such on the world stage. Might may not always be right but notice is still taken of those with the biggest stick.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Feb 15 2.57pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote rob1969 at 21 Feb 2015 1.37pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 11.06am

Quote rob1969 at 21 Feb 2015 10.47am

We could send a carrier force! Oh dam haven't got one now - but will have soon - dam - no bloody aircraft on it ! Well done DC

Yup....But I think that was originally Labour's cock up.

Maybe but continued and made worse over last five years by DC & co.

On the subject of defence.
The UK has since 1945 been seen by the US as its number one western military ally. However in recent years it apparent that the UK may still talk the talk but cannot match the words with capability. This was underlined to US by our inability to successfully operate independently in Afghanistan where on several occasion the US had to come to our support. The UK still has some of the best military manpower but in insufficient numbers to do the tasks still expected of them - and poorly /under equipped. Either we want to be among the 'big boys' in which case we must pay the realistic cost or accept that we are now only an average European power and be treated as such on the world stage. Might may not always be right but notice is still taken of those with the biggest stick.


I'm not sure how the Tories made the original cock up worse as contracts made things impossible really.

As for the rest I think you're spot on.

The defence cuts are not something I agree with.....These are political decisions, political choices.

I've no desire....unlike most of the noisy section of the left....for the UK to be considered as an average EU country.....I think the rush to irrelevance is motivated by a misplaced desire for egalitarianism in everything.

Whereas the reality of the world is that it is a dangerous place that holds with the bully's playground than it does with middle class etiquette.

Protect your interests and hence wealth or lose it.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View rob1969's Profile rob1969 Flag Banstead Surrey 21 Feb 15 3.42pm Send a Private Message to rob1969 Add rob1969 as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 2.57pm

Quote rob1969 at 21 Feb 2015 1.37pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 11.06am

Quote rob1969 at 21 Feb 2015 10.47am

We could send a carrier force! Oh dam haven't got one now - but will have soon - dam - no bloody aircraft on it ! Well done DC

Yup....But I think that was originally Labour's cock up.

Maybe but continued and made worse over last five years by DC & co.

On the subject of defence.
The UK has since 1945 been seen by the US as its number one western military ally. However in recent years it apparent that the UK may still talk the talk but cannot match the words with capability. This was underlined to US by our inability to successfully operate independently in Afghanistan where on several occasion the US had to come to our support. The UK still has some of the best military manpower but in insufficient numbers to do the tasks still expected of them - and poorly /under equipped. Either we want to be among the 'big boys' in which case we must pay the realistic cost or accept that we are now only an average European power and be treated as such on the world stage. Might may not always be right but notice is still taken of those with the biggest stick.


I'm not sure how the Tories made the original cock up worse as contracts made things impossible really.

As for the rest I think you're spot on.

The defence cuts are not something I agree with.....These are political decisions, political choices.

I've no desire....unlike most of the noisy section of the left....for the UK to be considered as an average EU country.....I think the rush to irrelevance is motivated by a misplaced desire for egalitarianism in everything.

Whereas the reality of the world is that it is a dangerous place that holds with the bully's playground than it does with middle class etiquette.

Protect your interests and hence wealth or lose it.


Mediocrity in all things !

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Feb 15 5.36pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote susmik at 21 Feb 2015 11.55am


They are done on a daily basis as they always have done!!


Air Commodore Andrew Lambert, of the UK National Defence Association, said: “The Ministry of Defence should be worried.

'It always trots out the mantra of reviewing force levels but the only real solution is to deploy a sizeable force of Typhoons, at least a squadron, to buy us time to formulate a proper reinforcement package.'

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2015 5.37pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View rob1969's Profile rob1969 Flag Banstead Surrey 21 Feb 15 7.33pm Send a Private Message to rob1969 Add rob1969 as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 5.36pm

Quote susmik at 21 Feb 2015 11.55am


They are done on a daily basis as they always have done!!


Air Commodore Andrew Lambert, of the UK National Defence Association, said: “The Ministry of Defence should be worried.

'It always trots out the mantra of reviewing force levels but the only real solution is to deploy a sizeable force of Typhoons, at least a squadron, to buy us time to formulate a proper reinforcement package.'

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2015 5.37pm)


Review/reviewing = in government speak 'kicking into the long grass.' In other words excuse for doing nothing now!

 

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 21 Feb 15 8.12pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 5.36pm

Quote susmik at 21 Feb 2015 11.55am


They are done on a daily basis as they always have done!!


Air Commodore Andrew Lambert, of the UK National Defence Association, said: “The Ministry of Defence should be worried.

'It always trots out the mantra of reviewing force levels but the only real solution is to deploy a sizeable force of Typhoons, at least a squadron, to buy us time to formulate a proper reinforcement package.'

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2015 5.37pm)


He retired from the RAF on 12 October 2003 so is only spouting his own ideas and not that of the present day MOD and I doubt he has access to any up to date military information. You have plucked him out from what he said some 12 or more years ago. Please do not make things sound as bad as you yourself think they are. Try and get some up to date information from somebody who is stationed there or who knows something concrete about the present situation. Not from newspapers and Google!

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Feb 15 8.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote susmik at 21 Feb 2015 8.12pm


He retired from the RAF on 12 October 2003 so is only spouting his own ideas and not that of the present day MOD and I doubt he has access to any up to date military information. You have plucked him out from what he said some 12 or more years ago. Please do not make things sound as bad as you yourself think they are. Try and get some up to date information from somebody who is stationed there or who knows something concrete about the present situation. Not from newspapers and Google!

This man reached the height in his profession and these people don't leave and not maintain contacts.

It's ridiculous to imply that he doesn't know the defense capabilities of the Falklands or have a worthy opinion on it over a solider serving there.....or indeed you.

People in the MOD are restricted in what they can say so you implying that silence means that these opinions aren't held isn't realistic....Actions will tell us that.

Like I said, I will be happy for MOD actions over this latest development over this next year will prove which one of us is a right plonker.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 21 Feb 15 8.44pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 8.23pm

Quote susmik at 21 Feb 2015 8.12pm


He retired from the RAF on 12 October 2003 so is only spouting his own ideas and not that of the present day MOD and I doubt he has access to any up to date military information. You have plucked him out from what he said some 12 or more years ago. Please do not make things sound as bad as you yourself think they are. Try and get some up to date information from somebody who is stationed there or who knows something concrete about the present situation. Not from newspapers and Google!

This man reached the height in his profession and these people don't leave and not maintain contacts.

It's ridiculous to imply that he doesn't know the defense capabilities of the Falklands or have a worthy opinion on it over a solider serving there.....or indeed you.

People in the MOD are restricted in what they can say so you implying that silence means that these opinions aren't held isn't realistic....Actions will tell us that.

Like I said, I will be happy for MOD actions over this latest development over this next year will prove which one of us is a right plonker.

Quite true, the only real solution the UK has presented in terms of military successes since the first gulf war, has been air campaigns, with 'logistical' ground support. Afghanistan and Iraq arguably have been failures, not necessarily for military reasons either. Politically, the UK lacks the real capacity to 'accept the necessary' that such conflicts require in order to achieve a chance of success (in terms of casualties, publicity and of course reprisals).

The fact is you can't win any war, if your population 'gets the jitters' at casualties in the hundreds.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 21 Feb 15 8.48pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 8.23pm

Quote susmik at 21 Feb 2015 8.12pm


He retired from the RAF on 12 October 2003 so is only spouting his own ideas and not that of the present day MOD and I doubt he has access to any up to date military information. You have plucked him out from what he said some 12 or more years ago. Please do not make things sound as bad as you yourself think they are. Try and get some up to date information from somebody who is stationed there or who knows something concrete about the present situation. Not from newspapers and Google!

This man reached the height in his profession and these people don't leave and not maintain contacts.

It's ridiculous to imply that he doesn't know the defense capabilities of the Falklands or have a worthy opinion on it over a solider serving there.....or indeed you.

People in the MOD are restricted in what they can say so you implying that silence means that these opinions aren't held isn't realistic....Actions will tell us that.

Like I said, I will be happy for MOD actions over this latest development over this next year will prove which one of us is a right plonker.

Of course he got to a high rank when he retired but his knowledge today of what is happening out there is purely HIS opinion and not of what is actually happening today. As you have said things are kept quiet from the general public but even a person like you would not presume we put all the extra manpower and equipment just to let the Argies bomb the runway...that would be a foolhardy thing to do. It was through the Royal marine generals that were out there who had meetings with our government after the war and even now do so, that the contingement they have out including ships aircraft boat squadrons and personel is adequate to "repel boarders". The equipment is of a very high spec and much more than we had when we went there in 1982...I KNOW I was there. I will put a link at the end for you to look at and it might just enlighten you on what it cost in lives and equipment and why we will never ever let it happen again due to the Falklanders voting to stay british.

[Link]

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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View Percy of Peckham's Profile Percy of Peckham Flag Eton Mess 21 Feb 15 8.50pm Send a Private Message to Percy of Peckham Add Percy of Peckham as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 11.06am

Quote rob1969 at 21 Feb 2015 10.47am

We could send a carrier force! Oh dam haven't got one now - but will have soon - dam - no bloody aircraft on it ! Well done DC

Yup....But I think that was originally Labour's cock up.

The two carrier force will not be fully operational until 2020. However, the first one will be commissioned in 2017. The RAF has already taken taken delivery of it's first three F35Bs for evaluation and training up pilots.

In the meantime, while we are finishing off the carriers perhaps we could lob cruise missiles at the Argies to keep them entertained?

 


Denial is not just a river in Egypt!

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 21 Feb 15 8.53pm

Quote rob1969 at 21 Feb 2015 1.37pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 11.06am

Quote rob1969 at 21 Feb 2015 10.47am

We could send a carrier force! Oh dam haven't got one now - but will have soon - dam - no bloody aircraft on it ! Well done DC

Yup....But I think that was originally Labour's cock up.

Maybe but continued and made worse over last five years by DC & co.

On the subject of defence.
The UK has since 1945 been seen by the US as its number one western military ally. However in recent years it apparent that the UK may still talk the talk but cannot match the words with capability. This was underlined to US by our inability to successfully operate independently in Afghanistan where on several occasion the US had to come to our support. The UK still has some of the best military manpower but in insufficient numbers to do the tasks still expected of them - and poorly /under equipped. Either we want to be among the 'big boys' in which case we must pay the realistic cost or accept that we are now only an average European power and be treated as such on the world stage. Might may not always be right but notice is still taken of those with the biggest stick.

Militarily, we are a very capable nation, and would be quite capable of waging a conventional conflict against most countries our own size.

However, when you're talking about protracted insurgencies and guerrilla conflicts, none of the first world nations really are particually well suited to those, because technology alone won't win them, you need human resources on the ground - Troop Saturation is a necessity. It can't be won technologically, because the enemy is always concealed, and has to be rooted out from a population from which they are almost impossible to identify.

Post 1945, the concept of a nation being capable of militarily occupying another, especially without shared border, has become almost impossible, due initially to tactics of restistance developed by occupied nations during that war, that were then adopted and refined by national liberation movements to resist empires.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 21 Feb 15 8.55pm

Quote Percy of Peckham at 21 Feb 2015 8.50pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Feb 2015 11.06am

Quote rob1969 at 21 Feb 2015 10.47am

We could send a carrier force! Oh dam haven't got one now - but will have soon - dam - no bloody aircraft on it ! Well done DC

Yup....But I think that was originally Labour's cock up.

The two carrier force will not be fully operational until 2020. However, the first one will be commissioned in 2017. The RAF has already taken taken delivery of it's first three F35Bs for evaluation and training up pilots.

In the meantime, while we are finishing off the carriers perhaps we could lob cruise missiles at the Argies to keep them entertained?

If you think our capacity has dropped off since the Falklands, then you should look at the Argentine military post Junta.

We might not have aircraft carriers, but their military capacity is neligible compared to what it was then.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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