I had a mate who was very religious, but in a good way, never forcing his beliefs on others and a very kind person. I respected him a lot for that. Then one day he told me that he believed that dinosaurs were fabricated and didn't actually exist, and that the world started only a few thousand years ago. When I asked him what the skeletons in museums were he said they were fabricated by humans. Though I still speak to him, I could never really take anything he said at face value any longer. Also he's a man united fan.

When you’re knocked on your back and your life’s a flop...

He is actually correct in a sense. He proposes that atheism twinned with science is the only logical and appropriate position to take and that all faith based or spiritual belief is false.

Therefore, if a person tries to present a different argument and suggest any sort of supernatural force or God their action is pointless and without grounding to him. He has established what the correct thing to believe in and for this reason anything which cannot be proved purely on a basis of logic or science cannot be argued for. So if a Christian or a member of another faith try to contradict his points they have no case and engage in spouting religious bile.

I don't appreciate being called dangerous and I dont think I seethe (think that's what he meant). However, he thinks I'm blind and if faith is to be categorised universally as obsolete then he is correct.
This post is not in any way rude, attempting to be confrontational nor presenting a point of view. What I have tried to do is explain the dannyh's opinion. He doesn't care what people believe, everyone's entitled to believe anything. But there is not a single religious or faith based belief worth debating and any response to his scientific and logic based argument has absolutely no value.

I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry.

Draws deep breath .......

Right you've nearly got it, however just because I deal in absolutes on a message board doesn’t mean I haven’t sat and pondered the likely hood of Jesus Moses and all.

As I said earlier I was brought up a Catholic, and didn’t have any bad experiances (as you put it) at all. I grew up in a very stable Anglo/Irish family, but I do have an enquiring mind and as I got older, things in the bible had clear similarities to Fables read out in class, be good, don’t be bad, morality etc etc . So I spent quite a long time at odds with my faith, researching from all aspects of the argument, for and against faith based devotion.

Now I could drone on and on with my meandering thoughts and counter thoughts on the subject of religion, but I would be in to the hundreds of pages before I got to my obvious conclusion that as far as factual text goes, the bible has very little basis in fact if any, and even less credence in truth. Allow me try and let you see a tiny bit of why I have the opinion I do.

There are countless religious texts that mirror stories told in the bible that pre date Jesus by thousands of years, for example the Egyptian GodHorus 3100BC was one of the many Egyptian Gods. He had 12 disciples. He was born of a virgin in a cave. His birth was announced by a star, and was attended by three wise men. He was baptized at age thirty by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles, including rising at least one person from the dead and walking on water. He was crucified, buried in a tomb, and resurrected, just like Jesus.

Then we have Mithra2000BC Yet another example of virginal birth, Mithra was born to the virgin Anahita on December 25th. He was swaddled and placed in a manger, where he was tended to by shepherds. Like Jesus and Horus, he had 12 companions (which can be interpreted as disciples). He also performed miracles, identified with both the lion and the lamb, sacrificed his life to save the world, was dead for three days before being resurrected, and was known as the messiah, the savior, and “the Way, the Truth and the Light.” His religion also had a Eucharistic-style “Lord’s supper.”

I could go on, even Buddha has some comparisons, eg walking on water, healing the sick, he even did the old feed 500 trick from one basket of cakes ..seem familiar ?

The point is Jesus is just another example of early mans need to believe, instead of understand, and as science improves more and more people should (bit of an assumption I will admit) decide that the bible and religion as whole has one massive floor....It's all bollocks.

Now I could also perceive from my meandering research over the years, that because all these stories share similar traits there must be some truth to it ? All these different civilisations recounting almost identical stories but thousands of years apart ? it does pose an interesting question in reference to the existence of a God like figure who came to Earth many thousands of years ago. Who the fcuk knows ? I know I don't.

Look at it this way if we were in court and I was prosecuting the bible and you defending it, I would win with any jury that had half a brain and wasn't completely Tonto.(again assumption on my part but you get the point I hope).

Hopefully you now see my stance, It is not totally and utterly dismissive more my own opinion based on my own research and thoughts.

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

Of course they don't, but too rarely are they found in humanity.

My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

I respect that you not only have experience with being a religious believer but have also considered and investigated the idea of myth making across the centuries and have come to the conclusion that the deification of Jesus is similarly a myth due to many similarities in other myths such as that of Horus.

I don't think you just dismiss things out of hand because you don't like them. I respect the fact that you have made conclusions through research that God cannot exist and Jesus and other religious figures are deified through methods shared with myths. I see that as a fair approach to take and have never denied that you take this. You've actually wasted a bit of your own time writing it down, I've heard these points before and can understand why people see them and find the story of Jesus as the Son of God hard to believe.

My problem is not only with the fact that you are rude and dismissive of all religious beliefs without considering the wider points. In your previous post you made reference to the fact that people are continuing to understand the world more through improvements in science. This is a point I agree on. However, I have personal problems with existence that I don't feel science can explain. They are (as I've already actually said):

1) How could the universe have infinitely existed in the form of a mass of elements and then been created chemically through a big bang of its own accord.

2) I don't necessarily dismiss the big bang, just the fact that there definitely wasn't a creative force (a God) behind it.

3) I don't understand how chemicals can combine and form molecules which develop into organs and bodies which have LIFE. How does life come from lifeless matter? How are humans conscious and no other animal comes close to us?

Please, ignore the fact that I am a Christian. Don't answer with talk about religious books or a religious figure as the only answer to these problems. They aren't. I'm not suggesting these are the solution to you. There could be a deist creator of sorts, just ignore the religious element. The point is that I am not assured of the universe's creation just happening out of chance. I am not an existentialist.
Now do you see my point?

Edited by EaglesEaglesEagles (19 Mar 2015 4.10pm)

I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry.

hahahah f*** off Abdul

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"