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An immigrant speaks..

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 25 Apr 15 7.57am

It's a little known fact that the general in general talk is short for generalisation

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 25 Apr 15 9.05am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 25 Apr 2015 12.54am

I think his post in question that his link related to was:

"Just as about every one prefers to be around people like themselves as you now full well. That is why Britain is becoming divided".

What is interesting in his statistics is that it seems from his link he may actually (I hope not) be talking about race not culture when he refers to "people like themselves" since the statistics he uses in support of his point are largely based on race.The categories in them,forming it seems research carried out for the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, are "white british","white non British","Black/Black british" and "Asian/Asian British". Nothing whatsoever to do with cultures unless someone is one of those ignoramuses who,for example, think all "Blacks" or "Asians" or "non british whites" are of the same culture,and that "people like themselves" could only ever be,for example, "white British".

So,"non British whites" all prefer to live together, whether from Poland,New Zealand, Iceland, Portugal or Argentina,and apart from all of the other three categories then do they? That's the logic...that is if anyone wants to suggest the map in question is something to be relied on in the context of his post...as showing what you say is "obvious".

Is he suggesting people of differing races in the UK all generally prefer to live apart? Would you suggest that?

One place with an ideology which took the view that "races" preferred to live apart was Apartheid in South Africa.So,maybe any adherents of that general viewpoint here might have more in common with the philosophical roots of Apartheid than they might think.

I think he earlier posted that Britain was also becoming divided on religious lines geographically.There may be something in that.The 2011 census did indicate higher proportions of people declaring themselves to be of the "Jedi Knight" religion in places like Portsmouth,Norwich and Brighton,than elsewhere.


Edited by legaleagle (25 Apr 2015 1.47am)

I'd say that the majority of people of different cultures would prefer to live apart in an ideal situation.

Not all, but the majority. Statistically that question would rarely be in a questionnaire and maybe that's a good thing but indirect statistics like regional population groupings do support it pretty clearly.....Of course if you are of a different ideological persuasion you see it differently.....Where the truth resides is for the 'truth' to know.

People can point at 'white flight' statistics from London, large Asian populations attracted to same regions and say it's a racial thing.....I think that's a simplification. I seriously don't think that most people in this age care that deeply what skin pigment you have.....But they do care about the language and the culture...The things you share in common....I think we saw a situation where those with the means up sticked....Like my old man did.....But he had to save up a lot before he could move.....You need the financial muscle.

Also not everyone moves for the same priority of reasons of course...Not everyone moves for the same reasons...However, you have to be a bit of a refusenik to deny the basic premise. ....Maybe, in reality, we are having some personality wars rather than anything else.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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TheJudge Flag 25 Apr 15 9.31am

Quote legaleagle at 24 Apr 2015 9.47pm

Quote TheJudge at 24 Apr 2015 1.16pm

Quote Seth at 24 Apr 2015 12.56pm

Quote TheJudge at 24 Apr 2015 10.57am

Quote Seth at 24 Apr 2015 12.33am

Quote TheJudge at 23 Apr 2015 8.36pm

That is just trolling nonsense. Just as about every one prefers to be around people like themselves as you now full well. That is why Britain is becoming divided. Look at the States and how that has developed.


Do they? Have you asked everyone? Where's the polling or survey evidence to back up this claim?

If you must use that sort of daft reasoning, can you prove they don't ?


I haven't made any wild and unsubstantiated claims and therefore don't need to prove anything. Where's your evidence that "...every one prefers to be around people like themselves"?

I strongly suspect you don't have any proof and are just wildly generalising about people whose views you know nothing about. Go ahead and prove me wrong, if you're able.

What a pointless post. Of course I'm generalising. Most posts on any thread are generalisations.
However, the anecdotal evidence is backed up by statistics. [Link]


Were you not the poster who not long ago attacked the University College London academics' report about the economic benefits of immigration on the basis that those kind of statistics were not perfect and therefore couldn't reasonably be used as evidence to support a credible argument?

Or would that only apply where statistics are used in support of a point of view you agree with?

Edited by legaleagle (24 Apr 2015 10.41pm)

So you think that statistics showing the benefits of immigration might not be so reliable after all ?

 

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TheJudge Flag 25 Apr 15 9.54am

Quote legaleagle at 25 Apr 2015 12.54am

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Apr 2015 10.53pm

Quote legaleagle at 24 Apr 2015 9.47pm


Edited by legaleagle (24 Apr 2015 10.41pm)


Sorry legal but that's hardly a logical answer.

You either accept the statistics for a reason or you don't for a reason. What someone else does is not the point.

He was moaned at to provide proof, he provides it and then you moan at him......He said he didn't feel there was a need for proof on such an obvious thing in the first place.

But yet you have a moan and play the man instead of the ball.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Apr 2015 10.54pm)


I think his post in question that his link related to was:

"Just as about every one prefers to be around people like themselves as you now full well. That is why Britain is becoming divided".

What is interesting in his statistics is that it seems from his link he may actually (I hope not) be talking about race not culture when he refers to "people like themselves" since the statistics he uses in support of his point are largely based on race.The categories in them,forming it seems research carried out for the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, are "white british","white non British","Black/Black british" and "Asian/Asian British". Nothing whatsoever to do with cultures unless someone is one of those ignoramuses who,for example, think all "Blacks" or "Asians" or "non british whites" are of the same culture,and that "people like themselves" could only ever be,for example, "white British".

So,"non British whites" all prefer to live together, whether from Poland,New Zealand, Iceland, Portugal or Argentina,and apart from all of the other three categories then do they? That's the logic...that is if anyone wants to suggest the map in question is something to be relied on in the context of his post...as showing what you say is "obvious".

Is he suggesting people of differing races in the UK all generally prefer to live apart? Would you suggest that?

One place with an ideology which took the view that "races" preferred to live apart was Apartheid in South Africa.So,maybe any adherents of that general viewpoint here might have more in common with the philosophical roots of Apartheid than they might think.

I think he earlier posted that Britain was also becoming divided on religious lines geographically.There may be something in that.The 2011 census did indicate higher proportions of people declaring themselves to be of the "Jedi Knight" religion in places like Portsmouth,Norwich and Brighton,than elsewhere.

-------------------------------------------------------

An amusing post but flawed.

We are not tlaking about some sort of enforced apartheid here, we are talking about natural bonds and preferences.
Religion, culture and race are related to some extent as you well know but it is not a simple formula as you rightly suggest. There are quite clearly sociological and anthropological reasons why people like to live together or apart including long standing religious and historical ones. I'm not sure why you deny this or why you see it as some sort of ideological heresy.
It is what it is
Clealy you believe that my interpretation of the truth is tainted in some way but I would suggest to you that you entertain the idea that maybe your world view is equally if not more prejudiced.
There is no racial or religious prejudice in my observations. I am just saying things as I see them. My observations are supported by both anecdotal and statistical evidence. Yours I suspect are driven by uncontrolled ideological fantasy.


[


Edited by TheJudge (25 Apr 2015 9.55am)

Edited by TheJudge (25 Apr 2015 9.55am)

 

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legaleagle Flag 25 Apr 15 10.46am

Quote TheJudge at 25 Apr 2015 9.31am

Quote legaleagle at 24 Apr 2015 9.47pm


So you think that statistics showing the benefits of immigration might not be so reliable after all ?


No,quite the opposite.I thought then and think now that those statistics (though not perfect) were very informative in showing immigration has brought economic benefits.I think your wholesale dismissal of statistics as a matter of seeming principle in that context was wrong.As I said then,I think statistics can be useful in assisting us generally.Just that I don't think your one's in the present instance offer much assistance.

Edited by legaleagle (25 Apr 2015 11.02am)

 

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legaleagle Flag 25 Apr 15 10.55am

Quote TheJudge at 25 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote legaleagle at 25 Apr 2015 12.54am


-------------------------------------------------------

An amusing post but flawed.

We are not tlaking about some sort of enforced apartheid here, we are talking about natural bonds and preferences.
Religion, culture and race are related to some extent as you well know but it is not a simple formula as you rightly suggest. There are quite clearly sociological and anthropological reasons why people like to live together or apart including long standing religious and historical ones. I'm not sure why you deny this or why you see it as some sort of ideological heresy.
It is what it is
Clealy you believe that my interpretation of the truth is tainted in some way but I would suggest to you that you entertain the idea that maybe your world view is equally if not more prejudiced.
There is no racial or religious prejudice in my observations. I am just saying things as I see them. My observations are supported by both anecdotal and statistical evidence. Yours I suspect are driven by uncontrolled ideological fantasy.

....................................................


Blimey,I must bow down to the king of objective rationality?!

Of course all our views are subjective and influenced by our ideological views,including your's.Indeed,very much including your's.

You suggest that because I don't agree people generally within in the UK today (which was the point of your posts) prefer to live apart on the basis of ethnicity,I am therefore a uncontrolled ideological fantasist.That's just plain silly...

As for your subjective view being backed up as you state by "statistical evidence",well on the basis of the only link you have posted so far...

Btw,the philosophical underpinning of Apartheid's ideologues was that the races supposedly preferred to live apart and "develop separately"....that was utilised by the group in question upon gaining power in 1948 to try and force increased such separation...The Afrikaans word "apartheid" literally translates into English as "separateness".

Edited by legaleagle (25 Apr 2015 11.18am)

 

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TheJudge Flag 26 Apr 15 1.14am

Quote legaleagle at 25 Apr 2015 10.46am

Quote TheJudge at 25 Apr 2015 9.31am

Quote legaleagle at 24 Apr 2015 9.47pm


So you think that statistics showing the benefits of immigration might not be so reliable after all ?


No,quite the opposite.I thought then and think now that those statistics (though not perfect) were very informative in showing immigration has brought economic benefits.I think your wholesale dismissal of statistics as a matter of seeming principle in that context was wrong.As I said then,I think statistics can be useful in assisting us generally.Just that I don't think your one's in the present instance offer much assistance.

Edited by legaleagle (25 Apr 2015 11.02am)


Well there's a surprise.

 

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TheJudge Flag 26 Apr 15 1.19am

Quote legaleagle at 25 Apr 2015 10.55am

Quote TheJudge at 25 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote legaleagle at 25 Apr 2015 12.54am


-------------------------------------------------------

An amusing post but flawed.

We are not tlaking about some sort of enforced apartheid here, we are talking about natural bonds and preferences.
Religion, culture and race are related to some extent as you well know but it is not a simple formula as you rightly suggest. There are quite clearly sociological and anthropological reasons why people like to live together or apart including long standing religious and historical ones. I'm not sure why you deny this or why you see it as some sort of ideological heresy.
It is what it is
Clealy you believe that my interpretation of the truth is tainted in some way but I would suggest to you that you entertain the idea that maybe your world view is equally if not more prejudiced.
There is no racial or religious prejudice in my observations. I am just saying things as I see them. My observations are supported by both anecdotal and statistical evidence. Yours I suspect are driven by uncontrolled ideological fantasy.

....................................................


Blimey,I must bow down to the king of objective rationality?!

Of course all our views are subjective and influenced by our ideological views,including your's.Indeed,very much including your's.

You suggest that because I don't agree people generally within in the UK today (which was the point of your posts) prefer to live apart on the basis of ethnicity,I am therefore a uncontrolled ideological fantasist.That's just plain silly...

As for your subjective view being backed up as you state by "statistical evidence",well on the basis of the only link you have posted so far...

Btw,the philosophical underpinning of Apartheid's ideologues was that the races supposedly preferred to live apart and "develop separately"....that was utilised by the group in question upon gaining power in 1948 to try and force increased such separation...The Afrikaans word "apartheid" literally translates into English as "separateness".

Edited by legaleagle (25 Apr 2015 11.18am)

And how is it going for them down in sunny South Africa since Apartheid was removed ? Have they all started living together in wonderful harmony ?


Edited by TheJudge (26 Apr 2015 1.19am)

Edited by TheJudge (26 Apr 2015 1.20am)

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 26 Apr 15 8.43am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

^^^^^^

'Yes' say plenty of happily married couples in mixed relationships and 'thanks for asking'.

'Cry Freedom ' it was called. Not 'Cry Wonderful Harmony'

 


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TheJudge Flag 26 Apr 15 11.25am

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Apr 2015 8.43am

^^^^^^

'Yes' say plenty of happily married couples in mixed relationships and 'thanks for asking'.

'Cry Freedom ' it was called. Not 'Cry Wonderful Harmony'

Everyone is entitled to freedom but harmony is never going to happen....and that is my point.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 26 Apr 15 12.08pm

Quote TheJudge at 26 Apr 2015 11.25am

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Apr 2015 8.43am

^^^^^^

'Yes' say plenty of happily married couples in mixed relationships and 'thanks for asking'.

'Cry Freedom ' it was called. Not 'Cry Wonderful Harmony'

Everyone is entitled to freedom but harmony is never going to happen....and that is my point.


Other hairsprays are available

 

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View Seth's Profile Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 26 Apr 15 3.54pm Send a Private Message to Seth Add Seth as a friend

Quote TheJudge at 26 Apr 2015 11.25am

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Apr 2015 8.43am

^^^^^^

'Yes' say plenty of happily married couples in mixed relationships and 'thanks for asking'.

'Cry Freedom ' it was called. Not 'Cry Wonderful Harmony'

Everyone is entitled to freedom but harmony is never going to happen....and that is my point.

Harmony does happen and is happening. Not all the time, but a lot of it. The fact you choose only to see the bad in the world says more about you than you can imagine.

 


"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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