I should perhaps have said "institutionalised racism"-a slip of the keyboard ,for which apologies.But one perfectly appropriate IMHO to describe the situation in many parts of the USA up until the mid/late 60's (with some only to be expected still lingering consequences thereafter) where,for example, the racism was institutionalised into laws allowing for discrimination in access to facilities,transport, jobs and voting.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as when someone is treated unfairly because of their race and that has become part of the normal behaviour of people within an organization.

In the South,substitute "society" for organisation.

Hard to see IMO that wasn't the case until the Civil Rights movement managed to achieve some progress.But no one could expect to see 250 years of such pervasive discrimination (including the thought patterns accompanying it) eradicated totally in a few decades.

If you disagree,no problem

As for reverse racism,I agree its an abhorrence and I experienced it for myself when at a party in the USA accompanied by a black woman. Racism is racism,whether its the USA,here or in China,where in Cantonese speaking areas,as I found out, its not unusual to be referred to as a Gweilo: "white devil".

Edited by legaleagle (09 Apr 2015 10.44pm)

Well,Stephen Lawrence,his murder,the Met and the report is a separate topic for another day. Sir William Macpherson may have used the phrase in his report but he was far from the being the originator of it.

But your post was in response to posts made solely about the USA...we weren't debating the UK...

Edited by legaleagle (09 Apr 2015 10.52pm)

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The number of unarmed people shot by the US police isn't known, as there is no requirement for the department to report shooting data unless a crime is committed by the police officer involved (so the 410 people shot and killed by the US police in 2012 is likely a very conservative estimate).

What is telling is that there were 409 known fatal police shootings in the US in 2012, and an unknown number of incidents in which people were wounded or shots were fired. In the same period, the entire UK police force fired three times, and killed no one.

What is interesting from these recent events, that have come up under racial shootings, is the number of events in which unarmed people have been shot and killed, by Police Officers. To me, this suggests poor training, in that officers are responding to threatening situations by immediately resorting to deadly force in situations which, in the UK, would result in a police officer facing a murder charge or manslaughter charge.

The racism angle, which clearly is present in some of these cases, likely masks a much bigger problem of a police force that is poorly trained, ill disciplined with poor internal process and protocols of investigation that have been subverted by political expediency and justification (institutionalised racism in US society and the idea that just because someone is a criminal or been involved in a crime, then its a justified homicide).

Shooting of unarmed civilians, even criminals who might look like they'd beat you in a fight, is not grounds for shooting.

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Generally I think as a rule of thumb you shouldn't be shooting people unless under direct threat to your actual life.

My suspicion would be that the actual requirements for becoming a police officer in the US are actually comparatively low, training is patchy and varied, and the oversight lacking, and driven more by political factors than quality standards. Especially outside the big cities (although apparently Iowa has the most rigerous of Police Accadmies, and is full time placement).

Consquently, like the US Prison system, I suspect that less than desirable candidates find their way in quite easily (people attracted by the power of the badge rather than civic duty and responsibility).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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You wrote...In my view mostly a good post.

The problem with labels and with language generally is in the precision of its usage and the intent behind it.

By referring to essentially 'preference' as 'institutionalized racism' the McPherson report provided and still provides descriptive bullets for a lot people with pre-existing agendas.

What McPherson describes as inherent across the Police is indeed inherent across every individual black or white or whatever. To criticise the Police for what was essentially...... being human was in my eyes not only harmful and unfair but a mangled insult to the vast majority of officers who try to do their job evenly and fairly.....Great for the elites in the media who love to blame public services for every flaw in society (while never allowing their actual children to work in it).

What is important is what actions officers take in a situation. The judgement of racism for any particular action is tricky unless it is obvious and everyone should always be careful with the language they use if they can't actually prove something.

I suppose this last bit leads me to the only real aspect that I'd criticise in your post......This Norris stuff.

You state it like it's a fact......It isn't.
What you state is allenged....It may or not be true....The fact is that the charge of corruption hasn't been proven against officers and considering the highly inappropriate level of power Miss Lawrence was given if it were provable it would have been by now.

Young offenders continually escape conviction and jail due to reluctance of judges to fill our prisons still further.

People love to talk about the need for new schools and hospitals as our old age and immigrant fueled population goes up....But funnily enough not prisons.....How typical....Anyway to go to jail now requires exhausting multiple court inspired chances.....Unfortunately the chavvy nutters are all too aware of that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Apr 2015 3.45pm)

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