You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Victorian poverty
April 25 2024 8.40am

Victorian poverty

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 5 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >

 

jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Apr 15 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View Pawson Palace's Profile Pawson Palace Flag Croydon 07 Apr 15 10.35am Send a Private Message to Pawson Palace Add Pawson Palace as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

I agree about the black market but surely a system where an ID card would have to be presented with the voucher electronically stored on it. I know it's not a perfect system but if it is needs to be made clear to all that it's not supposed to be a free ride, but people will always play/abuse the system.

I'm in kind to agree with you about the internet but there are plenty of places to get free access such as a library or job centre and obviously travel is another issue.

Its a tricky one, I agree there needs to be a cash element, but the voucher system would hopefully encourage a select few to spend the money on what is it intended for rather cheap fags and booze.

 


Pride of South London
Upper Holmesdale Block P

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 07 Apr 15 10.41am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

Some good points Jaimie but why does the solution to poverty always = more money?

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, a lot is to do with life skills. The ability to cook from scratch, repair clothes and yes learn to read / write and use a computer. I would much rather see money invested in this than just throwing money at people and not solving the problem.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Apr 15 10.50am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 10.35am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

I agree about the black market but surely a system where an ID card would have to be presented with the voucher electronically stored on it. I know it's not a perfect system but if it is needs to be made clear to all that it's not supposed to be a free ride, but people will always play/abuse the system.

I'm in kind to agree with you about the internet but there are plenty of places to get free access such as a library or job centre and obviously travel is another issue.

Its a tricky one, I agree there needs to be a cash element, but the voucher system would hopefully encourage a select few to spend the money on what is it intended for rather cheap fags and booze.

The kind of people who'd spend it entirely on cheap fags and booze, are the kinds of people who'd sell them on the black market anyhow. Of course if they're alcoholics just cutting them off is itself an expensive problem (it requires hospitalisation - Withdrawl almost killed my Dads brother twice) and of course a lot of people with substance abuse problems do lack employment.

Arguably the problems of poverty need to be tackled not just by throwing money at it and commanding people who probably could care less to do things, but by engaging people in poverty and addressing the problems and causes of poverty.

Money alone isn't the answer, you can't just give people some money and expect them to resolve their problems.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View elgrande's Profile elgrande Flag bedford 07 Apr 15 2.09pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 10.41am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

Some good points Jaimie but why does the solution to poverty always = more money?

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, a lot is to do with life skills. The ability to cook from scratch, repair clothes and yes learn to read / write and use a computer. I would much rather see money invested in this than just throwing money at people and not solving the problem.

so right on those points,kids having kids having kids,nothing is taught to the next generation.
Simply because they have not been shown or taught themselves.

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
EricYoung'sSweatBand Flag 07 Apr 15 2.12pm

Quote elgrande at 07 Apr 2015 2.09pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 10.41am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

Some good points Jaimie but why does the solution to poverty always = more money?

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, a lot is to do with life skills. The ability to cook from scratch, repair clothes and yes learn to read / write and use a computer. I would much rather see money invested in this than just throwing money at people and not solving the problem.

so right on those points,kids having kids having kids,nothing is taught to the next generation.
Simply because they have not been shown or taught themselves.


I take it you're an expert in haberdashery then?

I'm from an OK background and can't sew a button nor can I do pretty much most DIY stuff around the house and that has nothing to do with (a lack of) wealth

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 07 Apr 15 2.36pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote EricYoung'sSweatBand at 07 Apr 2015 2.12pm

Quote elgrande at 07 Apr 2015 2.09pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 10.41am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

Some good points Jaimie but why does the solution to poverty always = more money?

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, a lot is to do with life skills. The ability to cook from scratch, repair clothes and yes learn to read / write and use a computer. I would much rather see money invested in this than just throwing money at people and not solving the problem.

so right on those points,kids having kids having kids,nothing is taught to the next generation.
Simply because they have not been shown or taught themselves.


I take it you're an expert in haberdashery then?

I'm from an OK background and can't sew a button nor can I do pretty much most DIY stuff around the house and that has nothing to do with (a lack of) wealth


Are you lazy or inept?

The surveryed teachers are f***ing thick if they think they've seen Victorian era poverty.

No socks... They'd have no shoes and you'd see their skin hanging off their bones.

 


Optimistic as ever

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
EricYoung'sSweatBand Flag 07 Apr 15 2.42pm

Quote Stuk at 07 Apr 2015 2.36pm

Quote EricYoung'sSweatBand at 07 Apr 2015 2.12pm

Quote elgrande at 07 Apr 2015 2.09pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 10.41am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

Some good points Jaimie but why does the solution to poverty always = more money?

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, a lot is to do with life skills. The ability to cook from scratch, repair clothes and yes learn to read / write and use a computer. I would much rather see money invested in this than just throwing money at people and not solving the problem.

so right on those points,kids having kids having kids,nothing is taught to the next generation.
Simply because they have not been shown or taught themselves.


I take it you're an expert in haberdashery then?

I'm from an OK background and can't sew a button nor can I do pretty much most DIY stuff around the house and that has nothing to do with (a lack of) wealth


Are you lazy or inept?

Oh both. Definitely both.

Anyone who knows me would tell you the same

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 07 Apr 15 2.53pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote EricYoung'sSweatBand at 07 Apr 2015 2.12pm

Quote elgrande at 07 Apr 2015 2.09pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 10.41am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

Some good points Jaimie but why does the solution to poverty always = more money?

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, a lot is to do with life skills. The ability to cook from scratch, repair clothes and yes learn to read / write and use a computer. I would much rather see money invested in this than just throwing money at people and not solving the problem.

so right on those points,kids having kids having kids,nothing is taught to the next generation.
Simply because they have not been shown or taught themselves.


I take it you're an expert in haberdashery then?

I'm from an OK background and can't sew a button nor can I do pretty much most DIY stuff around the house and that has nothing to do with (a lack of) wealth

Read my earlier post at the beginning of the thread. I said that it is applicable to everyone, however those who are poorest are the ones who are impacted the most. It was ever thus. I can sew a bit, I'm a decent cook, my mum had three fifths of f*** all to bring us up. A combination of wider family and the skills I mentioned meant I had a pretty good childhood.

If you are a Mr or Mrs Average, you can afford to throw away clothes when they lose a button or two and buy a large amount of ready made or prepared meals. If you're "poor" or on benefits you can't. Everyone myself included, could and probably should be smarter with how we spend our money

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
EricYoung'sSweatBand Flag 07 Apr 15 3.22pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 2.53pm

Quote EricYoung'sSweatBand at 07 Apr 2015 2.12pm

Quote elgrande at 07 Apr 2015 2.09pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 10.41am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

Some good points Jaimie but why does the solution to poverty always = more money?

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, a lot is to do with life skills. The ability to cook from scratch, repair clothes and yes learn to read / write and use a computer. I would much rather see money invested in this than just throwing money at people and not solving the problem.

so right on those points,kids having kids having kids,nothing is taught to the next generation.
Simply because they have not been shown or taught themselves.


I take it you're an expert in haberdashery then?

I'm from an OK background and can't sew a button nor can I do pretty much most DIY stuff around the house and that has nothing to do with (a lack of) wealth

Read my earlier post at the beginning of the thread. I said that it is applicable to everyone, however those who are poorest are the ones who are impacted the most. It was ever thus. I can sew a bit, I'm a decent cook, my mum had three fifths of f*** all to bring us up. A combination of wider family and the skills I mentioned meant I had a pretty good childhood.

If you are a Mr or Mrs Average, you can afford to throw away clothes when they lose a button or two and buy a large amount of ready made or prepared meals. If you're "poor" or on benefits you can't. Everyone myself included, could and probably should be smarter with how we spend our money


Yes but your post sort of assumes that all poor people are poor all of the time.

How would knowing how to sew positively affect a family plunged into poverty because the main bread winner suddenly fell ill?

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Apr 15 3.37pm

Quote EricYoung'sSweatBand at 07 Apr 2015 2.12pm

Quote elgrande at 07 Apr 2015 2.09pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 10.41am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

Some good points Jaimie but why does the solution to poverty always = more money?

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, a lot is to do with life skills. The ability to cook from scratch, repair clothes and yes learn to read / write and use a computer. I would much rather see money invested in this than just throwing money at people and not solving the problem.

so right on those points,kids having kids having kids,nothing is taught to the next generation.
Simply because they have not been shown or taught themselves.


I take it you're an expert in haberdashery then?

I'm from an OK background and can't sew a button nor can I do pretty much most DIY stuff around the house and that has nothing to do with (a lack of) wealth

I can just about, because my dad was good at the DIY stuff and I had to do needlework in school (I'm s**t at sowing, but I can just about thread a needle, stitch on a button etc). My poor DIY knowledge is supplimented by Google and a decent book on DIY my dad gave me.

But I also understand that a lot of people don't have access to certain skills, because they've never had an opportunity to learn them or inherit them from their parents or wider family - and without access to those skills their capacity to 'resolve an issue without wealth' is difficult (thanks to Google I can wire a plug with confidence, change fuses etc).

But its pot luck. Other people in my family are at a loss for DIY etc, and consequently they'd have to pay other people to do it, which is where the wealth factor kicks in (because the general rule of life is either you do it, or pay someone else to do it).


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Apr 15 3.41pm

Quote EricYoung'sSweatBand at 07 Apr 2015 3.22pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 2.53pm

Quote EricYoung'sSweatBand at 07 Apr 2015 2.12pm

Quote elgrande at 07 Apr 2015 2.09pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Apr 2015 10.41am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Apr 2015 9.54am

Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.19am

Simple solution.

Scrap cash benefits for energy, food and clothing vouchers.

No excuses then.

To an extent, but then you need to introduce a system by which they are refunded at point of use, and a system to prevent them being sold for cash on a black market that will florish (because invariably a voucher system can't compensate for the fluxtuation in expenditure for example sometimes you need more for clothes).

Plus, occassionally there is money required for other things, such as travel, public transport use, books, car maintenance and other products of life (mobile phone, internet etc).

As such vouchers represent a problem in that they lack a flexibility of cash.

Now I know that other people will disagree about mobile phone and internet etc - but if you want people to find work, these are pretty much essential tools in the modern age. Also things like access to books really make a difference in the prospects of kids in improving their future chances

I've always believed that engery supply like water, should be 'free' to the consumer, to an extent and recovered through taxation.

Some good points Jaimie but why does the solution to poverty always = more money?

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, a lot is to do with life skills. The ability to cook from scratch, repair clothes and yes learn to read / write and use a computer. I would much rather see money invested in this than just throwing money at people and not solving the problem.

so right on those points,kids having kids having kids,nothing is taught to the next generation.
Simply because they have not been shown or taught themselves.


I take it you're an expert in haberdashery then?

I'm from an OK background and can't sew a button nor can I do pretty much most DIY stuff around the house and that has nothing to do with (a lack of) wealth

Read my earlier post at the beginning of the thread. I said that it is applicable to everyone, however those who are poorest are the ones who are impacted the most. It was ever thus. I can sew a bit, I'm a decent cook, my mum had three fifths of f*** all to bring us up. A combination of wider family and the skills I mentioned meant I had a pretty good childhood.

If you are a Mr or Mrs Average, you can afford to throw away clothes when they lose a button or two and buy a large amount of ready made or prepared meals. If you're "poor" or on benefits you can't. Everyone myself included, could and probably should be smarter with how we spend our money


Yes but your post sort of assumes that all poor people are poor all of the time.

How would knowing how to sew positively affect a family plunged into poverty because the main bread winner suddenly fell ill?

Well arguably they could repair their own clothing, rather than have to replace it, and they could also repair and make alterations to other peoples clothing etc.

Growing up in a working class background, the tradition of 'barter' was alive. My dad was a mechanic (as well as a decent DIY bloke) so when we had a new bathroom, he'd trade work on a plumbers car/vehicle for plumbing.

Also part of that equation is not just getting 'cheap plumbing / mechanical work, but cheap parts at trade costs - Which makes a staggering difference.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 5 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Victorian poverty