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Next Labour fall guy

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 19 May 15 5.25am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Unite are threatening to sever ties with Labour:

[Link]

Would be good for them not to be dictated to by the Union, and in Len McCluskey clearly a man that wants to be the unelected kingpin of the party but would conversely create a major funding issue for them.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View ChuFukka's Profile ChuFukka Flag 19 May 15 7.42am Send a Private Message to ChuFukka Add ChuFukka as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 18 May 2015 7.37pm

Love this:

[Link]


That's a stupid point. Oxford and Cambridge are the best in the country and amongst the best in the world. I'm glad that those near government are intelligent enough to have gone there - also, the majority of students at both went to state schools and a quarter are on full bursaries - it is not about background, just ability.

Edited by ChuFukka (19 May 2015 7.43am)

 

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derben Flag 19 May 15 8.13am

I don't think floating voters care much whether Labour has financial support from unions, or that Conservatives get financial support from big business, and Lib Dems from non-dom foreign billionaires.
They don't mind that Labour front benchers are highly educated. On the contrary, they want MPs who are educated, and class origins these days are increasing less important.
It is the policies and general outlook that are key. Labour did not lose because their leaders were graduates or from the wrong tribe or funded by unions. They lost because their policies did not appeal to floating voters, and because of their contempt of those who raised issues that concerned them, like immigration, the housing crisis, the fruits of multiculturalism and the general pandering to minorities at the expense of the majority. Of course, even now, after the election, those who voted Tory or Ukip are branded as akin to racists, sexists and homophobes - they voted out of fear because they were stupid. Go on thinking that and you will go on losing general elections.

Edited by derben (19 May 2015 8.16am)

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 19 May 15 8.35am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote ChuFukka at 19 May 2015 7.42am

Quote matt_himself at 18 May 2015 7.37pm

Love this:

[Link]


That's a stupid point. Oxford and Cambridge are the best in the country and amongst the best in the world. I'm glad that those near government are intelligent enough to have gone there - also, the majority of students at both went to state schools and a quarter are on full bursaries - it is not about background, just ability.

Edited by ChuFukka (19 May 2015 7.43am)

I don't believe it is a stupid point. Do you think that Tristram Hunt and Liz Kendall are common as muck types who went to Oxbridge via bursaries?

The key point is that Labour partly lost the last election because they were out of touch with the electorate. By voting for a new leader, and most likely a deputy leader, out of a selection who enjoyed priviledged upbringings and top class education (with the trappings that brings), they will be repeating the cycle.

As I have said before, I think this is great and will keep them out of office for another two elections.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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derben Flag 19 May 15 9.20am

Quote matt_himself at 19 May 2015 8.35am

Quote ChuFukka at 19 May 2015 7.42am

Quote matt_himself at 18 May 2015 7.37pm

Love this:

[Link]


That's a stupid point. Oxford and Cambridge are the best in the country and amongst the best in the world. I'm glad that those near government are intelligent enough to have gone there - also, the majority of students at both went to state schools and a quarter are on full bursaries - it is not about background, just ability.

Edited by ChuFukka (19 May 2015 7.43am)

I don't believe it is a stupid point. Do you think that Tristram Hunt and Liz Kendall are common as muck types who went to Oxbridge via bursaries?

The key point is that Labour partly lost the last election because they were out of touch with the electorate. By voting for a new leader, and most likely a deputy leader, out of a selection who enjoyed priviledged upbringings and top class education (with the trappings that brings), they will be repeating the cycle.

As I have said before, I think this is great and will keep them out of office for another two elections.

So the Labour vote did not vote Labour because the leader and deputy leader enjoyed privileged upbringings and top class education. Instead they went and voted Conservative and UKIP, whose leaders and deputy leaders enjoyed privileged upbringings and top class education?

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 May 15 10.36am

Quote ChuFukka at 19 May 2015 7.42am

Quote matt_himself at 18 May 2015 7.37pm

Love this:

[Link]


That's a stupid point. Oxford and Cambridge are the best in the country and amongst the best in the world. I'm glad that those near government are intelligent enough to have gone there - also, the majority of students at both went to state schools and a quarter are on full bursaries - it is not about background, just ability.

Edited by ChuFukka (19 May 2015 7.43am)

Hardly makes them representative, the whole predominately white, male, upper middle class, privately educated, Cambridge or Oxford graduates.

They are great universities, that actually aren't as hard to get into as you'd think, the selection process is much more about whether they want you. A school friend of mine had an offer of 2 grade d's at A-Level because they wanted him (he did get four grade A's and ultimately went to med school).

But if you have the right parents, or right pedigree, you'll get a much easier entry offer than the run of the mill general public (its worth noting though that both will go out of their way to pay the fees and costs of students from poor backgrounds if they believe they have 'the right stuff').

The real power of an Oxford or Cambridge university is the doors it opens and the people you will meet there. For the record Howard Marks was an Oxford university student.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 May 15 10.41am

Quote derben at 19 May 2015 9.20am

Quote matt_himself at 19 May 2015 8.35am

Quote ChuFukka at 19 May 2015 7.42am

Quote matt_himself at 18 May 2015 7.37pm

Love this:

[Link]


That's a stupid point. Oxford and Cambridge are the best in the country and amongst the best in the world. I'm glad that those near government are intelligent enough to have gone there - also, the majority of students at both went to state schools and a quarter are on full bursaries - it is not about background, just ability.

Edited by ChuFukka (19 May 2015 7.43am)

I don't believe it is a stupid point. Do you think that Tristram Hunt and Liz Kendall are common as muck types who went to Oxbridge via bursaries?

The key point is that Labour partly lost the last election because they were out of touch with the electorate. By voting for a new leader, and most likely a deputy leader, out of a selection who enjoyed priviledged upbringings and top class education (with the trappings that brings), they will be repeating the cycle.

As I have said before, I think this is great and will keep them out of office for another two elections.

So the Labour vote did not vote Labour because the leader and deputy leader enjoyed privileged upbringings and top class education. Instead they went and voted Conservative and UKIP, whose leaders and deputy leaders enjoyed privileged upbringings and top class education?

Not at all, Labour didn't actually do all that badly in the election, but the losses to the SNP and the losses of the Liberal Democrats hit them much worse than I think people expected (Infact Labour increased their share of the vote, despite being led by a Guff in a suit who looked and sounded like he was a special needs student on work experience).

But it shouldn't matter where you were educated, its suspicious that so many of the cabinet and shadow cabinet went to 'the same schools and come from the same background'. There has always been a political class in the UK, typically the middle and upper middle classes (with the aristocratic tending more towards the house of lords than commons).

What is interesting is how that hasn't really changed, despite massive changes in society and social mobility.


Edited by jamiemartin721 (19 May 2015 10.42am)

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View ChuFukka's Profile ChuFukka Flag 19 May 15 11.10am Send a Private Message to ChuFukka Add ChuFukka as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 10.36am

Quote ChuFukka at 19 May 2015 7.42am

Quote matt_himself at 18 May 2015 7.37pm

Love this:

[Link]


That's a stupid point. Oxford and Cambridge are the best in the country and amongst the best in the world. I'm glad that those near government are intelligent enough to have gone there - also, the majority of students at both went to state schools and a quarter are on full bursaries - it is not about background, just ability.

Edited by ChuFukka (19 May 2015 7.43am)

Hardly makes them representative, the whole predominately white, male, upper middle class, privately educated, Cambridge or Oxford graduates.

They are great universities, that actually aren't as hard to get into as you'd think, the selection process is much more about whether they want you. A school friend of mine had an offer of 2 grade d's at A-Level because they wanted him (he did get four grade A's and ultimately went to med school).

But if you have the right parents, or right pedigree, you'll get a much easier entry offer than the run of the mill general public (its worth noting though that both will go out of their way to pay the fees and costs of students from poor backgrounds if they believe they have 'the right stuff').

The real power of an Oxford or Cambridge university is the doors it opens and the people you will meet there. For the record Howard Marks was an Oxford university student.



A lot of this is just false. Oxford uses contextual data in making its decisions, which means that if two students are very similar, the one from the more disadvantaged background will get in. The selection process has actually got a lot harder recently, involving not just A levels (which Oxford doesn't really care about as they don't feel they are a fair reflection of ability) but also pre-application tests and interviews. Admittedly I don't know much about Cambridge, but I would imagine it is similar except for the fact that they do like A Levels, hence asking for UMS scores.

Both universities have had problems in the past, but are now the two most transparent in the country when it comes to their admissions procedures.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 May 15 11.50am

Quote ChuFukka at 19 May 2015 11.10am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 10.36am

Quote ChuFukka at 19 May 2015 7.42am

Quote matt_himself at 18 May 2015 7.37pm

Love this:

[Link]


That's a stupid point. Oxford and Cambridge are the best in the country and amongst the best in the world. I'm glad that those near government are intelligent enough to have gone there - also, the majority of students at both went to state schools and a quarter are on full bursaries - it is not about background, just ability.

Edited by ChuFukka (19 May 2015 7.43am)

Hardly makes them representative, the whole predominately white, male, upper middle class, privately educated, Cambridge or Oxford graduates.

They are great universities, that actually aren't as hard to get into as you'd think, the selection process is much more about whether they want you. A school friend of mine had an offer of 2 grade d's at A-Level because they wanted him (he did get four grade A's and ultimately went to med school).

But if you have the right parents, or right pedigree, you'll get a much easier entry offer than the run of the mill general public (its worth noting though that both will go out of their way to pay the fees and costs of students from poor backgrounds if they believe they have 'the right stuff').

The real power of an Oxford or Cambridge university is the doors it opens and the people you will meet there. For the record Howard Marks was an Oxford university student.



A lot of this is just false. Oxford uses contextual data in making its decisions, which means that if two students are very similar, the one from the more disadvantaged background will get in. The selection process has actually got a lot harder recently, involving not just A levels (which Oxford doesn't really care about as they don't feel they are a fair reflection of ability) but also pre-application tests and interviews. Admittedly I don't know much about Cambridge, but I would imagine it is similar except for the fact that they do like A Levels, hence asking for UMS scores.

Both universities have had problems in the past, but are now the two most transparent in the country when it comes to their admissions procedures.

I'm only going on my experiences, so that's going back quite a while. The truth really is that as 'Excellent Universities' Oxford and Cambridge have a lot more competition these days, especially when you're talking about specific subjects.

Still, the fact the degree says Oxford or Cambridge will open more doors than anything else.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View ChuFukka's Profile ChuFukka Flag 19 May 15 11.55am Send a Private Message to ChuFukka Add ChuFukka as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 11.50am

Quote ChuFukka at 19 May 2015 11.10am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 10.36am

Quote ChuFukka at 19 May 2015 7.42am

Quote matt_himself at 18 May 2015 7.37pm

Love this:

[Link]


That's a stupid point. Oxford and Cambridge are the best in the country and amongst the best in the world. I'm glad that those near government are intelligent enough to have gone there - also, the majority of students at both went to state schools and a quarter are on full bursaries - it is not about background, just ability.

Edited by ChuFukka (19 May 2015 7.43am)

Hardly makes them representative, the whole predominately white, male, upper middle class, privately educated, Cambridge or Oxford graduates.

They are great universities, that actually aren't as hard to get into as you'd think, the selection process is much more about whether they want you. A school friend of mine had an offer of 2 grade d's at A-Level because they wanted him (he did get four grade A's and ultimately went to med school).

But if you have the right parents, or right pedigree, you'll get a much easier entry offer than the run of the mill general public (its worth noting though that both will go out of their way to pay the fees and costs of students from poor backgrounds if they believe they have 'the right stuff').

The real power of an Oxford or Cambridge university is the doors it opens and the people you will meet there. For the record Howard Marks was an Oxford university student.



A lot of this is just false. Oxford uses contextual data in making its decisions, which means that if two students are very similar, the one from the more disadvantaged background will get in. The selection process has actually got a lot harder recently, involving not just A levels (which Oxford doesn't really care about as they don't feel they are a fair reflection of ability) but also pre-application tests and interviews. Admittedly I don't know much about Cambridge, but I would imagine it is similar except for the fact that they do like A Levels, hence asking for UMS scores.

Both universities have had problems in the past, but are now the two most transparent in the country when it comes to their admissions procedures.

I'm only going on my experiences, so that's going back quite a while. The truth really is that as 'Excellent Universities' Oxford and Cambridge have a lot more competition these days, especially when you're talking about specific subjects.

Still, the fact the degree says Oxford or Cambridge will open more doors than anything else.


That's fair enough, you can only go on your experience. However, my experience is very recent and I know how much work goes into outreach and equal opportunities etc.

 

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