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Chris Evans - Top Gear Host

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 20 Jun 15 6.22pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2015 5.32pm


Thanks to the liberal left elites running this formerly great country.


Go on. Name these liberal lefties running the country cos I can't see any!

 

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legaleagle Flag 20 Jun 15 6.29pm

Perhaps,Stirling,you are over keen to take a gratuitious and irrelevant swipe at "liberal left elites"?Clarkson's own laddishness and political incorrectness which appealed to many viewers needs to be separated out from what happened here.

In the wake of the revelations about harassment of staff by presenters etc that arose in the wake of "Savillegate",the BBC had not long before introduced a new strong general anti-bullying and harassment policy to protect employees from domineering OTT presenters.

Presumably at least some (you?) non "liberal left elite" members would have said that was a good thing...

Then Clarkson harangues and punches a staff member for (on the face of it ) unreasonable reasons.Clarkson,a person already on a "final warning".

So,they had a dilemma.Treat everyone working there the same under the new policy (but lose a cash cow) or be seen internally to be a joke and the aims of the policy as a joke.

So,they made a decision not to renew the contract, as opposed to having to face acting under the bullying/harassment policy given Clarkson's other prior "warnings".In a context where it was not clear if he would have signed a new contract anyway because of not coming up with enough dosh to keep Mr man of the people and member of the elite but illiberal Chipping Norton set happy.

Hope you're not suggesting that only "liberal elite" members think,if possible,everyone in a workplace should be treated as equally as possible if a strong anti-harassment/bullying policy has been introduced.


Edited by legaleagle (20 Jun 2015 6.32pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 20 Jun 15 10.51pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 20 Jun 2015 6.29pm

Perhaps,Stirling,you are over keen to take a gratuitious and irrelevant swipe at "liberal left elites"?Clarkson's own laddishness and political incorrectness which appealed to many viewers needs to be separated out from what happened here.

In the wake of the revelations about harassment of staff by presenters etc that arose in the wake of "Savillegate",the BBC had not long before introduced a new strong general anti-bullying and harassment policy to protect employees from domineering OTT presenters.

Presumably at least some (you?) non "liberal left elite" members would have said that was a good thing...

Then Clarkson harangues and punches a staff member for (on the face of it ) unreasonable reasons.Clarkson,a person already on a "final warning".

So,they had a dilemma.Treat everyone working there the same under the new policy (but lose a cash cow) or be seen internally to be a joke and the aims of the policy as a joke.

So,they made a decision not to renew the contract, as opposed to having to face acting under the bullying/harassment policy given Clarkson's other prior "warnings".In a context where it was not clear if he would have signed a new contract anyway because of not coming up with enough dosh to keep Mr man of the people and member of the elite but illiberal Chipping Norton set happy.

Hope you're not suggesting that only "liberal elite" members think,if possible,everyone in a workplace should be treated as equally as possible if a strong anti-harassment/bullying policy has been introduced.


Edited by legaleagle (20 Jun 2015 6.32pm)


The BBC, while an institution I wish to protect, is nevertheless an institution chock full of left leaning liberals who literally no longer deserve to produce a programme like 'Top Gear'. It will no doubt be anything like its former self as now the 'rebel' element has gone....Probably with about half the viewers as well.

The whole 'Savillegate' illusion is a total joke of an excuse for the actions of today's BBC's scared lefties who run the thing. That Saville era was completely different culturally from this one and the idea that it could occur today without action being taken is ridiculous.

Indeed even the mention of 'Saville' in regards to anything to do with Top Gear is frankly inappropriate.

What has occurred culturally at the BEEB is as usual a swing too far the other way in reaction to events to a 'safety first at all costs' approach which....frankly means that Clarkson and co are probable best out of it.

The BEEB have completely let down the fans of the show with how they have handled it....But never mind eh....You agreed with it....I can see the support of people like you really helping that show out.

The idea you produce and others produce that what has happened to Clarkson is only fair because no one would get away with this behaviour in the work place just amazes me.

You seriously put forward the idea that people are treated equally at work.....That's complete bulls***....It's never been the case at all.

People are rarely hit I grant you but I've seen physical stuff go on from bosses in the past.....Abuse of power goes on all the time and in many different ways.

Clarkson should have been disciplined internally. He regretted what happened and what would have been best would have been some sort of internal review where the show could have been protected until a 'graceful' handover.

But no.....The modern culture is apparently so much better....Despite being in cloud cuckoo land about the real reality of the workplace....It only represents those lefty liberal 'middle class' values that equal its own management.

None of which have half of Clarkson's talent.

Balls to it all.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jun 2015 10.58pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 20 Jun 15 10.57pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jun 2015 6.22pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2015 5.32pm


Thanks to the liberal left elites running this formerly great country.


Go on. Name these liberal lefties running the country cos I can't see any!

They are everywhere....The infest the management of the Police, The BBC, the education system and the majority of the political system.....Their ideology has ruined this country.

The only reason that enough middle class lefties vote Tory is because their principles aren't as important to them as their tax bill.....They vote to protect their money and investments because at the end of the day that's what matters most to them.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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legaleagle Flag 21 Jun 15 12.34am

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2015 10.51pm

Quote legaleagle at 20 Jun 2015 6.29pm

Perhaps,Stirling,you are over keen to take a gratuitious and irrelevant swipe at "liberal left elites"?Clarkson's own laddishness and political incorrectness which appealed to many viewers needs to be separated out from what happened here.

In the wake of the revelations about harassment of staff by presenters etc that arose in the wake of "Savillegate",the BBC had not long before introduced a new strong general anti-bullying and harassment policy to protect employees from domineering OTT presenters.

Presumably at least some (you?) non "liberal left elite" members would have said that was a good thing...

Then Clarkson harangues and punches a staff member for (on the face of it ) unreasonable reasons.Clarkson,a person already on a "final warning".

So,they had a dilemma.Treat everyone working there the same under the new policy (but lose a cash cow) or be seen internally to be a joke and the aims of the policy as a joke.

So,they made a decision not to renew the contract, as opposed to having to face acting under the bullying/harassment policy given Clarkson's other prior "warnings".In a context where it was not clear if he would have signed a new contract anyway because of not coming up with enough dosh to keep Mr man of the people and member of the elite but illiberal Chipping Norton set happy.

Hope you're not suggesting that only "liberal elite" members think,if possible,everyone in a workplace should be treated as equally as possible if a strong anti-harassment/bullying policy has been introduced.


Edited by legaleagle (20 Jun 2015 6.32pm)


The BBC, while an institution I wish to protect, is nevertheless an institution chock full of left leaning liberals who literally no longer deserve to produce a programme like 'Top Gear'. It will no doubt be anything like its former self as now the 'rebel' element has gone....Probably with about half the viewers as well.

The whole 'Savillegate' illusion is a total joke of an excuse for the actions of today's BBC's scared lefties who run the thing. That Saville era was completely different culturally from this one and the idea that it could occur today without action being taken is ridiculous.

Indeed even the mention of 'Saville' in regards to anything to do with Top Gear is frankly inappropriate.

What has occurred culturally at the BEEB is as usual a swing too far the other way in reaction to events to a 'safety first at all costs' approach which....frankly means that Clarkson and co are probable best out of it.

The BEEB have completely let down the fans of the show with how they have handled it....But never mind eh....You agreed with it....I can see the support of people like you really helping that show out.

The idea you produce and others produce that what has happened to Clarkson is only fair because no one would get away with this behaviour in the work place just amazes me.

You seriously put forward the idea that people are treated equally at work.....That's complete bulls***....It's never been the case at all.

People are rarely hit I grant you but I've seen physical stuff go on from bosses in the past.....Abuse of power goes on all the time and in many different ways.

Clarkson should have been disciplined internally. He regretted what happened and what would have been best would have been some sort of internal review where the show could have been protected until a 'graceful' handover.

But no.....The modern culture is apparently so much better....Despite being in cloud cuckoo land about the real reality of the workplace....It only represents those lefty liberal 'middle class' values that equal its own management.

None of which have half of Clarkson's talent.

Balls to it all.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jun 2015 10.58pm)

Little of your post actually seems to be about what I wrote above...more an opportunity for you to vent spleen at what you think "liberal lefties" are...You are better than that...

What I actually wrote, about equality of treatment in a workplace was:

"....everyone in a workplace should be treated as equally as possible"

As equally as possible allowing precisely for the fact complete equality of treatment in a workplace is unlikely...

If you don't at least aspire to that,for example in your school,fair enough...

 

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legaleagle Flag 21 Jun 15 12.36am

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2015 10.57pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jun 2015 6.22pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2015 5.32pm


Thanks to the liberal left elites running this formerly great country.


Go on. Name these liberal lefties running the country cos I can't see any!

They are everywhere....The infest the management of the Police, The BBC, the education system and the majority of the political system.....Their ideology has ruined this country.

The only reason that enough middle class lefties vote Tory is because their principles aren't as important to them as their tax bill.....They vote to protect their money and investments because at the end of the day that's what matters most to them.


Are you the same bloke who said that we shouldn't pigeon hole you as being a right winger

 

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derben Flag 21 Jun 15 9.15am

Quote legaleagle at 21 Jun 2015 12.36am

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2015 10.57pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jun 2015 6.22pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2015 5.32pm


Thanks to the liberal left elites running this formerly great country.


Go on. Name these liberal lefties running the country cos I can't see any!

They are everywhere....The infest the management of the Police, The BBC, the education system and the majority of the political system.....Their ideology has ruined this country.

The only reason that enough middle class lefties vote Tory is because their principles aren't as important to them as their tax bill.....They vote to protect their money and investments because at the end of the day that's what matters most to them.


Are you the same bloke who said that we shouldn't pigeon hole you as being a right winger

Stirling is of course correct (nearly said 'right'). The new politically correct establishment is broadly lib/left and has done, and is doing, great harm.

Edited by derben (21 Jun 2015 9.15am)

 

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View topcat's Profile topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 21 Jun 15 9.24am Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

It may be liberal, although that is debatable but it certainly isn't remotely left. Unless you are looking from a very far right point of view where everything must seem lefty.

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Jun 15 9.54am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 21 Jun 2015 12.34am

Little of your post actually seems to be about what I wrote above...more an opportunity for you to vent spleen at what you think "liberal lefties" are...You are better than that...

What I actually wrote, about equality of treatment in a workplace was:

"....everyone in a workplace should be treated as equally as possible"

As equally as possible allowing precisely for the fact complete equality of treatment in a workplace is unlikely...

If you don't at least aspire to that,for example in your school,fair enough...


While I was indeed expressing annoyance I did also answer you point.

You made the point that Clarkson being sacked was only correct because that is what would happen in the workplace with everyone being treated equally.

I countered that by stating that equal treatment has never been the norm in any workplace I've know.....But when it gets physical suddenly everyone's 'equal treatment'.

I'm not condoning physical violence in the workplace I'm simply making out the fact that the fallout has been over the top and damaging.

What annoys isn't that Clarkson wasn't deserving of punishment but that he was sacked with the result being an also certain lowering of quality for the programme.

No one's died, no one's been prosecuted by the Police....But the BBC decide he has to be sacked because the show's fans matter less than their workplace ideology. Then one of its ridiculous producers finds it sensible to connect Clarkson with Saville in a media interview......That was completely inappropriate....To be honest if I were Clarkson I'd look to sue for that...Maybe he has.

Schools are hardly institutions of 'equal treatment'. I could tell many a story of the staff room. As for how students are treated, well a good teacher tries to be impartial but many are on a sliding scale.

The point I'm making is that in the real world......There is no equality at all.

Sacking Clarkson on this 'equality' point is ridiculous when seen in the wider context....It appears that the only 'equality' issue is when someone hits you in the mush....It's complete implicit hypocrisy.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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derben Flag 21 Jun 15 9.54am

Quote topcat at 21 Jun 2015 9.24am

It may be liberal, although that is debatable but it certainly isn't remotely left. Unless you are looking from a very far right point of view where everything must seem lefty.

If you don't think it is remotely left, you must be looking from a very far left point of view where everything seems righty.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Jun 15 10.12am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 21 Jun 2015 12.36am

Are you the same bloke who said that we shouldn't pigeon hole you as being a right winger

I am of the right.

But simple labels are just that.

If I were to categorize myself I suppose I'd say 'red tory'.

I'm British working class and I reckon I stick up for them far more than you egalitarians do.

Lets go over my 'lefty' elements that I've supported on these boards.

I don't agree with state allowed protection of wealth that lowers social mobility and harms the very notion of meritocracy.

I'd ban private schools.
I'd ban religious schools.
I'm not too fond about some aspects of private health care, though I wouldn't ban it.
I'd increase social housing and not allow sell offs beyond a set percentage. This means supporting a house building plan.
I would look to attack 'protected elitism' whenever I found it. An elite isn't by itself a bad thing but access to it should only come from a genuine meritocracy.
I'd protect British working class jobs from lower paid immigration by control of our borders.

There you go.....I regard people who only fall into 'left' or 'right' categorises, in the political party sense..... as political sheep.


Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jun 2015 10.20am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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derben Flag 21 Jun 15 10.57am

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jun 2015 10.12am

Quote legaleagle at 21 Jun 2015 12.36am

Are you the same bloke who said that we shouldn't pigeon hole you as being a right winger

I am of the right.

But simple labels are just that.

If I were to categorize myself I suppose I'd say 'red tory'.

I'm British working class and I reckon I stick up for them far more than you egalitarians do.

Lets go over my 'lefty' elements that I've supported on these boards.

I don't agree with state allowed protection of wealth that lowers social mobility and harms the very notion of meritocracy.

I'd ban private schools.
I'd ban religious schools.
I'm not too fond about some aspects of private health care, though I wouldn't ban it.
I'd increase social housing and not allow sell offs beyond a set percentage. This means supporting a house building plan.
I would look to attack 'protected elitism' whenever I found it. An elite isn't by itself a bad thing but access to it should only come from a genuine meritocracy.
I'd protect British working class jobs from lower paid immigration by control of our borders.

There you go.....I regard people who only fall into 'left' or 'right' categorises, in the political party sense..... as political sheep.


Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jun 2015 10.20am)

Good post Stirling, I agree with most of your ideas here. I too regard myself as 'left' in a number of areas - further left by a mile in wanting to promote the interests of the British working class than members of the new left/libs are. The new left is more interested in protecting the interests of various minorities, Palestinians, asylum seeks etc. They actually are contemptuous of ordinary British working class people (unless they have some ethnic 'heritage' of course).

Edited by derben (21 Jun 2015 10.57am)

 

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