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Labour Leadership - Bald men fighting over a comb?

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Sep 15 10.25am
Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election Yes I will also be surprised if he leads Labour into the 2020 election.Corbyn's masquerade as Opposition leader will collapse enabling his replacement by a leader more in tune with the public mood.One suspects that the plotting has already started. Edited by Willo (15 Sep 2015 10.28am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Sep 15 10.25am

Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am

Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election

Yes I will also be surprised if he leads Labour into the 2020 election.Corbyn's masquerade as Opposition leader will collapse enabling his replacement by a leader more in tune with the public mood.One suspects that the plotting has already started.

Edited by Willo (15 Sep 2015 10.28am)

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leggedstruggle Croydon 15 Sep 15 10.30am
Quote Willo at 15 Sep 2015 10.25am Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election Yes I will also be surprised if he leads Labour into the 2020 election.Corbyn's masquerade as Opposition leader will collapse enabling his replacement by a leader more in tune with the public mood.One suspects that the plotting has already started. Edited by Willo (15 Sep 2015 10.28am) Yes, but when will the Tories drop that left/lib wet Cameron? mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 15 Sep 15 10.30am

Quote Willo at 15 Sep 2015 10.25am

Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am

Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election

Edited by Willo (15 Sep 2015 10.28am)

Yes, but when will the Tories drop that left/lib wet Cameron?

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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DanH SW2 15 Sep 15 10.31am
Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.15am Quote matt_himself at 15 Sep 2015 9.58am Quote Kermit8 at 15 Sep 2015 9.11am Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 9.03am Quote dannyh at 15 Sep 2015 8.39am One of the ingenuous comments from "two legs bad, 4 legs good" is that people should be able to opt out of the part of Income Tax that funds the MOD. Does that mean I don't have to protect them anymore then. I'm not a fan of DC, but he must be pissing his sides at the minute, I think I shall be glued to Prime Ministers question time, should be a hoot. Edited by dannyh (15 Sep 2015 8.40am) Sounds like Corbyn could actually try and make it a worthwhile question and answer session rather than a pointless playground comparison of who has the biggest bollcks. A big part of the reason of Corbyn's success is people being turned off by the status quo of modern politics. Even if you don't agree with a word he says you must admit it's about time we had something different in parliament? Edited by DanH (15 Sep 2015 9.04am) Exactly. My ears are pricked. And won't it be fun when we get the red-faced Tory bluster when JC makes some very valid points at PQT that the people can relate to. This is an observation: Corbyn doesn't appear to want to speak at all in public. He appears to be taking a strategy of speaking at rally's and protests.* I am all for PMQ to be reformed as it is a bit silly (albeit entertaining) but a refusal to participate in it, which is what he is hinting at, will cause problems for him. He simply does need to speak in Parliament as this is the primary visual representation of government for much of the electorate. I guess we'll see. Plus those were hardly in private. Also of course there is nobody there to respond and say "but Jeremy, that's b0llocks!". Talking to a rally of your supporters is a very different proposition to trying to persuade people who are against you that your view is the right one. Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election Agreed - but when was the last time anyone managed to do that in PMQs?
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DanH

SW2 15 Sep 15 10.31am

Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am

Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.15am

Quote matt_himself at 15 Sep 2015 9.58am

Quote Kermit8 at 15 Sep 2015 9.11am

Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 9.03am

Quote dannyh at 15 Sep 2015 8.39am

One of the ingenuous comments from "two legs bad, 4 legs good" is that people should be able to opt out of the part of Income Tax that funds the MOD.

Does that mean I don't have to protect them anymore then.

I'm not a fan of DC, but he must be pissing his sides at the minute, I think I shall be glued to Prime Ministers question time, should be a hoot.

Edited by dannyh (15 Sep 2015 8.40am)

Sounds like Corbyn could actually try and make it a worthwhile question and answer session rather than a pointless playground comparison of who has the biggest boll*cks.

A big part of the reason of Corbyn's success is people being turned off by the status quo of modern politics. Even if you don't agree with a word he says you must admit it's about time we had something different in parliament?

Edited by DanH (15 Sep 2015 9.04am)

Exactly. My ears are pricked. And won't it be fun when we get the red-faced Tory bluster when JC makes some very valid points at PQT that the people can relate to.

This is an observation: Corbyn doesn't appear to want to speak at all in public. He appears to be taking a strategy of speaking at rally's and protests. I am all for PMQ to be reformed as it is a bit silly (albeit entertaining) but a refusal to participate in it, which is what he is hinting at, will cause problems for him. He simply does need to speak in Parliament as this is the primary visual representation of government for much of the electorate.

I guess we'll see. Plus those were hardly in private.

Also of course there is nobody there to respond and say "but Jeremy, that's b0llocks!".

Talking to a rally of your supporters is a very different proposition to trying to persuade people who are against you that your view is the right one.

Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election

Agreed - but when was the last time anyone managed to do that in PMQs?

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Sep 15 10.34am
Quote leggedstruggle at 15 Sep 2015 10.30am Quote Willo at 15 Sep 2015 10.25am Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election Yes I will also be surprised if he leads Labour into the 2020 election.Corbyn's masquerade as Opposition leader will collapse enabling his replacement by a leader more in tune with the public mood.One suspects that the plotting has already started. Edited by Willo (15 Sep 2015 10.28am) Yes, but when will the Tories drop that left/lib wet Cameron? I don't wholly subscribe to the description although I wish he would veer to the 'Right' a bit more ! As he mentioned he will be gone at the end of this Parliament and Osborne is in the "Box Seat" to replace him as things stand.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Sep 15 10.34am

Quote leggedstruggle at 15 Sep 2015 10.30am

Quote Willo at 15 Sep 2015 10.25am

Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am

Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election

Edited by Willo (15 Sep 2015 10.28am)

Yes, but when will the Tories drop that left/lib wet Cameron?

I don't wholly subscribe to the description although I wish he would veer to the 'Right' a bit more ! As he mentioned he will be gone at the end of this Parliament and Osborne is in the "Box Seat" to replace him as things stand.

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 15 Sep 15 10.37am
Biggest winners from all of this will probably be the Lib Dems that got voted out at the last election, who can now combine with the Labour disillusioned to form a new LibLab Democrats Party so that each side of the new party can blame the Old Guard (Clegg/Milliband/Corbyn) and thus form a new viable threat to the Tories catering for those voters who can't bring themselves to vote Conservative or UKIP, but who aren't mental enough to vote for the New Old Labour Party either. Labour and the Lib Dems will then slog it out for 3rd, 4th or 5th place in the next election. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 15 Sep 15 10.37am

Biggest winners from all of this will probably be the Lib Dems that got voted out at the last election, who can now combine with the Labour disillusioned to form a new LibLab Democrats Party so that each side of the new party can blame the Old Guard (Clegg/Milliband/Corbyn) and thus form a new viable threat to the Tories catering for those voters who can't bring themselves to vote Conservative or UKIP, but who aren't mental enough to vote for the New Old Labour Party either.

Labour and the Lib Dems will then slog it out for 3rd, 4th or 5th place in the next election.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Sep 15 10.38am
Quote Willo at 15 Sep 2015 10.25am Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election Yes I will also be surprised if he leads Labour into the 2020 election.Corbyn's masquerade as Opposition leader will collapse enabling his replacement by a leader more in tune with the public mood.One suspects that the plotting has already started. Edited by Willo (15 Sep 2015 10.28am) Interesting, concept, but didn't he actually win a landslide victory in the leadership election for Labour - none of the other contenders even came close. For me, that makes him the valid leader of the Labour party. Similarly I'd expect a Conservative leader to be one selected on the basis of those eligible to select a conservative leader, rather than on the basis of what 'the public mood is'. The point shouldn't be to win elections. Turning democracy into a popularity contest simply means you'll increasingly have Government that only represents the views of those who happen to live in Swing constituencies. Personally I want to see distinctive, political parties. Rather than the blur that is labour, liberal democrats and conservatives. Parties like the Green and UKIP have done exceptionally well on the basis of standing for something different, rather than more of the same with different ties. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Sep 15 10.38am

Quote Willo at 15 Sep 2015 10.25am

Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am

Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election

Edited by Willo (15 Sep 2015 10.28am)

Interesting, concept, but didn't he actually win a landslide victory in the leadership election for Labour - none of the other contenders even came close. For me, that makes him the valid leader of the Labour party. Similarly I'd expect a Conservative leader to be one selected on the basis of those eligible to select a conservative leader, rather than on the basis of what 'the public mood is'.

The point shouldn't be to win elections. Turning democracy into a popularity contest simply means you'll increasingly have Government that only represents the views of those who happen to live in Swing constituencies.

Personally I want to see distinctive, political parties. Rather than the blur that is labour, liberal democrats and conservatives.

Parties like the Green and UKIP have done exceptionally well on the basis of standing for something different, rather than more of the same with different ties.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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DanH SW2 15 Sep 15 11.03am
Quote mezzer at 15 Sep 2015 10.37am Biggest winners from all of this will probably be the Lib Dems that got voted out at the last election, who can now combine with the Labour disillusioned to form a new LibLab Democrats Party so that each side of the new party can blame the Old Guard (Clegg/Milliband/Corbyn) and thus form a new viable threat to the Tories catering for those voters who can't bring themselves to vote Conservative or UKIP, but who aren't mental enough to vote for the New Old Labour Party either. Labour and the Lib Dems will then slog it out for 3rd, 4th or 5th place in the next election. This is probably spot on. Would put some money on it if I could trust your tips.
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DanH

SW2 15 Sep 15 11.03am

Quote mezzer at 15 Sep 2015 10.37am

Labour and the Lib Dems will then slog it out for 3rd, 4th or 5th place in the next election.

This is probably spot on. Would put some money on it if I could trust your tips.

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Hoof Hearted 15 Sep 15 11.08am
Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 11.03am Quote mezzer at 15 Sep 2015 10.37am Biggest winners from all of this will probably be the Lib Dems that got voted out at the last election, who can now combine with the Labour disillusioned to form a new LibLab Democrats Party so that each side of the new party can blame the Old Guard (Clegg/Milliband/Corbyn) and thus form a new viable threat to the Tories catering for those voters who can't bring themselves to vote Conservative or UKIP, but who aren't mental enough to vote for the New Old Labour Party either. Labour and the Lib Dems will then slog it out for 3rd, 4th or 5th place in the next election. This is probably spot on. Would put some money on it if I could trust your tips. mezzer's Cheltenham tips are legendary! I could see this sort of Lib/Lab/Dem pact coming about to be honest. Labour is dead in Scotland anyway and developing pneumonia in England and Wales.
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Hoof Hearted 15 Sep 15 11.08am

Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 11.03am

Quote mezzer at 15 Sep 2015 10.37am

Labour and the Lib Dems will then slog it out for 3rd, 4th or 5th place in the next election.

This is probably spot on. Would put some money on it if I could trust your tips.

mezzer's Cheltenham tips are legendary!

I could see this sort of Lib/Lab/Dem pact coming about to be honest.

Labour is dead in Scotland anyway and developing pneumonia in England and Wales.

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matt_himself Matataland 15 Sep 15 11.42am
Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.31am Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.15am Quote matt_himself at 15 Sep 2015 9.58am Quote Kermit8 at 15 Sep 2015 9.11am Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 9.03am Quote dannyh at 15 Sep 2015 8.39am One of the ingenuous comments from "two legs bad, 4 legs good" is that people should be able to opt out of the part of Income Tax that funds the MOD. Does that mean I don't have to protect them anymore then. I'm not a fan of DC, but he must be pissing his sides at the minute, I think I shall be glued to Prime Ministers question time, should be a hoot. Edited by dannyh (15 Sep 2015 8.40am) Sounds like Corbyn could actually try and make it a worthwhile question and answer session rather than a pointless playground comparison of who has the biggest bollcks. A big part of the reason of Corbyn's success is people being turned off by the status quo of modern politics. Even if you don't agree with a word he says you must admit it's about time we had something different in parliament? Edited by DanH (15 Sep 2015 9.04am) Exactly. My ears are pricked. And won't it be fun when we get the red-faced Tory bluster when JC makes some very valid points at PQT that the people can relate to. This is an observation: Corbyn doesn't appear to want to speak at all in public. He appears to be taking a strategy of speaking at rally's and protests.* I am all for PMQ to be reformed as it is a bit silly (albeit entertaining) but a refusal to participate in it, which is what he is hinting at, will cause problems for him. He simply does need to speak in Parliament as this is the primary visual representation of government for much of the electorate. I guess we'll see. Plus those were hardly in private. Also of course there is nobody there to respond and say "but Jeremy, that's b0llocks!". Talking to a rally of your supporters is a very different proposition to trying to persuade people who are against you that your view is the right one. Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election Agreed - but when was the last time anyone managed to do that in PMQs? Part of the point of PMQ's is to see how well the leaders cope with people questioning their views. It appears at present that Corbyn doesnt want his views challenged. That may change but as NPN said, simply speaking at events where everyone shares you view isn't going to persuade people he has the making of a leader. It will be interpreted as him having a dictatorial demeanor and being aloof. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 15 Sep 15 11.42am

Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.31am

Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am

Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.15am

Quote matt_himself at 15 Sep 2015 9.58am

Quote Kermit8 at 15 Sep 2015 9.11am

Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 9.03am

Quote dannyh at 15 Sep 2015 8.39am

One of the ingenuous comments from "two legs bad, 4 legs good" is that people should be able to opt out of the part of Income Tax that funds the MOD.

Does that mean I don't have to protect them anymore then.

I'm not a fan of DC, but he must be pissing his sides at the minute, I think I shall be glued to Prime Ministers question time, should be a hoot.

Edited by dannyh (15 Sep 2015 8.40am)

Sounds like Corbyn could actually try and make it a worthwhile question and answer session rather than a pointless playground comparison of who has the biggest boll*cks.

Edited by DanH (15 Sep 2015 9.04am)

Exactly. My ears are pricked. And won't it be fun when we get the red-faced Tory bluster when JC makes some very valid points at PQT that the people can relate to.

I guess we'll see. Plus those were hardly in private.

Also of course there is nobody there to respond and say "but Jeremy, that's b0llocks!".

Talking to a rally of your supporters is a very different proposition to trying to persuade people who are against you that your view is the right one.

Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election

Agreed - but when was the last time anyone managed to do that in PMQs?

Part of the point of PMQ's is to see how well the leaders cope with people questioning their views. It appears at present that Corbyn doesnt want his views challenged. That may change but as NPN said, simply speaking at events where everyone shares you view isn't going to persuade people he has the making of a leader. It will be interpreted as him having a dictatorial demeanor and being aloof.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Sep 15 11.58am
Quote matt_himself at 15 Sep 2015 11.42am Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.31am Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.15am Quote matt_himself at 15 Sep 2015 9.58am Quote Kermit8 at 15 Sep 2015 9.11am Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 9.03am Quote dannyh at 15 Sep 2015 8.39am One of the ingenuous comments from "two legs bad, 4 legs good" is that people should be able to opt out of the part of Income Tax that funds the MOD. Does that mean I don't have to protect them anymore then. I'm not a fan of DC, but he must be pissing his sides at the minute, I think I shall be glued to Prime Ministers question time, should be a hoot. Edited by dannyh (15 Sep 2015 8.40am) Sounds like Corbyn could actually try and make it a worthwhile question and answer session rather than a pointless playground comparison of who has the biggest bollcks. A big part of the reason of Corbyn's success is people being turned off by the status quo of modern politics. Even if you don't agree with a word he says you must admit it's about time we had something different in parliament? Edited by DanH (15 Sep 2015 9.04am) Exactly. My ears are pricked. And won't it be fun when we get the red-faced Tory bluster when JC makes some very valid points at PQT that the people can relate to. This is an observation: Corbyn doesn't appear to want to speak at all in public. He appears to be taking a strategy of speaking at rally's and protests.* I am all for PMQ to be reformed as it is a bit silly (albeit entertaining) but a refusal to participate in it, which is what he is hinting at, will cause problems for him. He simply does need to speak in Parliament as this is the primary visual representation of government for much of the electorate. I guess we'll see. Plus those were hardly in private. Also of course there is nobody there to respond and say "but Jeremy, that's b0llocks!". Talking to a rally of your supporters is a very different proposition to trying to persuade people who are against you that your view is the right one. Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election Agreed - but when was the last time anyone managed to do that in PMQs? Part of the point of PMQ's is to see how well the leaders cope with people questioning their views. It appears at present that Corbyn doesnt want his views challenged. That may change but as NPN said, simply speaking at events where everyone shares you view isn't going to persuade people he has the making of a leader. It will be interpreted as him having a dictatorial demeanor and being aloof. That's not actually what he said, he said he wanted to actually utilize it more as a proper engaged debate rather than the current format, which is basically divorced from debate, and an exercise in thinking on your feet and deflection. Also he wants, it seems, to expand how questions are presented and who can ask questions. Most of PMQ time seems to be about politicians amusing themselves rather than giving accurate responses. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Sep 15 11.58am

Quote matt_himself at 15 Sep 2015 11.42am

Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.31am

Quote npn at 15 Sep 2015 10.20am

Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 10.15am

Quote matt_himself at 15 Sep 2015 9.58am

Quote Kermit8 at 15 Sep 2015 9.11am

Quote DanH at 15 Sep 2015 9.03am

Quote dannyh at 15 Sep 2015 8.39am

One of the ingenuous comments from "two legs bad, 4 legs good" is that people should be able to opt out of the part of Income Tax that funds the MOD.

Does that mean I don't have to protect them anymore then.

I'm not a fan of DC, but he must be pissing his sides at the minute, I think I shall be glued to Prime Ministers question time, should be a hoot.

Edited by dannyh (15 Sep 2015 8.40am)

Sounds like Corbyn could actually try and make it a worthwhile question and answer session rather than a pointless playground comparison of who has the biggest boll*cks.

Edited by DanH (15 Sep 2015 9.04am)

Exactly. My ears are pricked. And won't it be fun when we get the red-faced Tory bluster when JC makes some very valid points at PQT that the people can relate to.

I guess we'll see. Plus those were hardly in private.

Also of course there is nobody there to respond and say "but Jeremy, that's b0llocks!".

Talking to a rally of your supporters is a very different proposition to trying to persuade people who are against you that your view is the right one.

Only time will tell how it plays out. Personally, I still give him 6-12 months, and would be amazed if he leads Labour (or at least a united Labour) into the next election

Agreed - but when was the last time anyone managed to do that in PMQs?

That's not actually what he said, he said he wanted to actually utilize it more as a proper engaged debate rather than the current format, which is basically divorced from debate, and an exercise in thinking on your feet and deflection. Also he wants, it seems, to expand how questions are presented and who can ask questions.

Most of PMQ time seems to be about politicians amusing themselves rather than giving accurate responses.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 15 Sep 15 12.03pm
Part of the point of PMQ's is to see how well the leaders cope with people questioning their views PMQ's are largely irrelevant. Hague was brilliant in these sorts of settings in the Commons but a laughing stock outside
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Sedlescombe

Sedlescombe 15 Sep 15 12.03pm

Part of the point of PMQ's is to see how well the leaders cope with people questioning their views

PMQ's are largely irrelevant. Hague was brilliant in these sorts of settings in the Commons but a laughing stock outside

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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Sep 15 12.09pm
I think the next few years in politics will be quite interesting. Which would be a first for the last 10-15 years. The last election saw great gains by parties that actually weren't trying to be identi-kit parties. Greens, UKIP and the SNP did exceptionally well, by standing for something other than 'more of the same'. Question will be whether Labour can profit on being different to New Labour, or if they'll self destruct like the conservatives did in the late 90s and early 2000 by division. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Sep 15 12.09pm

I think the next few years in politics will be quite interesting. Which would be a first for the last 10-15 years.

The last election saw great gains by parties that actually weren't trying to be identi-kit parties. Greens, UKIP and the SNP did exceptionally well, by standing for something other than 'more of the same'.

Question will be whether Labour can profit on being different to New Labour, or if they'll self destruct like the conservatives did in the late 90s and early 2000 by division.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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