Greece on the Edge
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 The Sash  Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 09 Jul 15 8.55am |
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It seems this German / Greek spat is getting very personal
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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Attachment: jamiemartin721  Reading 09 Jul 15 9.53am |
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Quote Stuk at 08 Jul 2015 5.08pm
If you're in the RAC you don't pay for everyone else's car repairs! You do however pay for the other members car repairs and recovery, to an extent. Unless the RAC operates differently to the AA. Greece is likely to default as the perception is more likely that they'll suffer in the short term, but the consequence will likely be a boost in tourism (as its likely to end up the cheapest holiday destination in Europe if it go Drachma), which will bring income in and ease the impact of that suffering (ie it won't be as bad as the year before, so it can be spun as success). In terms of sanctions, I can't really see that happening, not significantly, because its politically a nightmare once people start dying as a result of the impact of sanctions.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 09 Jul 15 10.03am |
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Quote The Sash at 09 Jul 2015 8.55am
It seems this German / Greek spat is getting very personal
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 09 Jul 15 10.24am |
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Interesting 'Number Crunching' stat in the latest Private Eye: 240bn Euros: Bailout funds received by Greece, demanding wholesale political reform in return for continuing support 300bn Euros: Bailout funds received by Europe's banks in wake of financial crisis (excluding 1 trillion Euros in guarantees) demanding minimal reform
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| Hoof Hearted 09 Jul 15 10.48am | |
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Quote ghosteagle at 08 Jul 2015 11.56am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Jul 2015 11.47am
I can't see any scenario where debt will be written off in the short term, especially when the debtor threatens to refuse to pay. Realistically, Greece has to at least pay back the principle plus depreciation. I think a case could be made for the interest (which is surprisingly generous) being paid for by the EU as a whole at some point, but ultimately, the important factor isn't punishing Greece or being superior, but getting Greece on its feet and operational. Friend of mine's dad lives in Greece, and dependent on rather expensive life sustaining treatment and drug regimes. Of course the current situation is that the Government cannot pay the Pharmacies, which cannot pay the distributor, which then cannot pay the drug companies for vital medicines. Of course Greece, at least in the short term, is going to be in hock to someone, and its people pay a price. Long term, there are things members states, the EU and IMF can do, such as waive some debt or interest etc. Interestingly, some suggestions of funding from BRICS is now starting to flow round the interwebs....
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| Hoof Hearted 09 Jul 15 10.51am | |
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Quote Cucking Funt at 09 Jul 2015 10.24am
Interesting 'Number Crunching' stat in the latest Private Eye: 240bn Euros: Bailout funds received by Greece, demanding wholesale political reform in return for continuing support 300bn Euros: Bailout funds received by Europe's banks in wake of financial crisis (excluding 1 trillion Euros in guarantees) demanding minimal reform
However all banks have got themselves back on track (even RBS albeit slowly) and bailout funds will be recovered.
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Kermit8  Hevon 09 Jul 15 12.00pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 09 Jul 2015 10.51am
Quote Cucking Funt at 09 Jul 2015 10.24am
Interesting 'Number Crunching' stat in the latest Private Eye: 240bn Euros: Bailout funds received by Greece, demanding wholesale political reform in return for continuing support 300bn Euros: Bailout funds received by Europe's banks in wake of financial crisis (excluding 1 trillion Euros in guarantees) demanding minimal reform
However all banks have got themselves back on track (even RBS albeit slowly) and bailout funds will be recovered.
I have to say though that allowing them the same kind of triple AAA credit rating that we and Germany had upon them joining the EU and, thus, the chance to borrow untold billions at very low interest which they could never realistically pay back was criminally short-sighted. Methinks some bankers were on a tasty commission and thought 'what the hell!'
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Jul 15 12.09pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 09 Jul 2015 10.51am
Quote Cucking Funt at 09 Jul 2015 10.24am
Interesting 'Number Crunching' stat in the latest Private Eye: 240bn Euros: Bailout funds received by Greece, demanding wholesale political reform in return for continuing support 300bn Euros: Bailout funds received by Europe's banks in wake of financial crisis (excluding 1 trillion Euros in guarantees) demanding minimal reform
However all banks have got themselves back on track (even RBS albeit slowly) and bailout funds will be recovered. In theory. I suspect they will be, but they won't actually recover the costs of the impact and fallout from their crash (the lost jobs, hardship, lost businesses so on and so forth).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stuk Top half 09 Jul 15 1.18pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Jul 2015 9.53am
Quote Stuk at 08 Jul 2015 5.08pm
If you're in the RAC you don't pay for everyone else's car repairs! You do however pay for the other members car repairs and recovery, to an extent. Unless the RAC operates differently to the AA. Greece is likely to default as the perception is more likely that they'll suffer in the short term, but the consequence will likely be a boost in tourism (as its likely to end up the cheapest holiday destination in Europe if it go Drachma), which will bring income in and ease the impact of that suffering (ie it won't be as bad as the year before, so it can be spun as success). In terms of sanctions, I can't really see that happening, not significantly, because its politically a nightmare once people start dying as a result of the impact of sanctions. If one member has a Ferrari they cannot really afford, so don't bother to service it, the only person paying for it to be repaired is the negligent owner.
Optimistic as ever |
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| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 09 Jul 15 1.45pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 09 Jul 2015 10.03am
Quote The Sash at 09 Jul 2015 8.55am
It seems this German / Greek spat is getting very personal
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| legaleagle 09 Jul 15 9.54pm |
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Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Jul 2015 7.48am
Quote legaleagle at 08 Jul 2015 11.54pm
Quote chris123 at 08 Jul 2015 9.46am
Quote Cucking Funt at 07 Jul 2015 6.13pm
Taking all the infrastructure the Germans destroyed, the loans the Greek central bank was forced to make to Berlin, the outright theft of gold reserves, to the systematic removal of crops and livestock, I'd say Greece was a teeny weeny bit of a creditor, wouldn't you?
Edited by chris123 (08 Jul 2015 9.49am) According to the BBC, German "massacres" in Greece in WW2 included one where 218 civilians were killed in Distomo in 1944. In 2000, the Greek Supreme Court ruled Germany should pay €28m to the relatives of those killed, although the decision was not enforced, and the dispute effectively reached stalemate in international courts in the following years. Maybe the German government could pay that one now for a start.If ever a debt (even in the non legal sense) remained due from the "moral giants" heading up the economic powerhouse of the EU......or is it only bank debts that count for anything with such "moral giants"? Edited by legaleagle (08 Jul 2015 11.57pm) Greeks killing Greeks during their civil war caused 80,000 deaths, perhaps they should pay themselves €28m. Dodges the actual point but since you mention it yes,I hope any victims got or get compensation,including the 100,000 or so "republicans/leftists" imprisoned,exiled or executed at war's end by our allies,the victors. Its worth remembering how Greece was assigned to us as an "area of influence" at Yalta.Our actions in Greece at the end of the war in support of the monarchists arguably were a cause of vicious civil war breaking out in the way it did. Now, do you want to answer the actual point about the morality of cash rich Germany refusing to pay the "debt" I referred to at the same time as leading the charge to enforce its bank debts? Edited by legaleagle (09 Jul 2015 9.56pm)
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| chris123 hove actually 10 Jul 15 7.27am |
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Quote legaleagle at 09 Jul 2015 9.54pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Jul 2015 7.48am
Quote legaleagle at 08 Jul 2015 11.54pm
Quote chris123 at 08 Jul 2015 9.46am
Quote Cucking Funt at 07 Jul 2015 6.13pm
Taking all the infrastructure the Germans destroyed, the loans the Greek central bank was forced to make to Berlin, the outright theft of gold reserves, to the systematic removal of crops and livestock, I'd say Greece was a teeny weeny bit of a creditor, wouldn't you?
Edited by chris123 (08 Jul 2015 9.49am) According to the BBC, German "massacres" in Greece in WW2 included one where 218 civilians were killed in Distomo in 1944. In 2000, the Greek Supreme Court ruled Germany should pay €28m to the relatives of those killed, although the decision was not enforced, and the dispute effectively reached stalemate in international courts in the following years. Maybe the German government could pay that one now for a start.If ever a debt (even in the non legal sense) remained due from the "moral giants" heading up the economic powerhouse of the EU......or is it only bank debts that count for anything with such "moral giants"? Edited by legaleagle (08 Jul 2015 11.57pm) Greeks killing Greeks during their civil war caused 80,000 deaths, perhaps they should pay themselves €28m. Dodges the actual point but since you mention it yes,I hope any victims got or get compensation,including the 100,000 or so "republicans/leftists" imprisoned,exiled or executed at war's end by our allies,the victors. Its worth remembering how Greece was assigned to us as an "area of influence" at Yalta.Our actions in Greece at the end of the war in support of the monarchists arguably were a cause of vicious civil war breaking out in the way it did. Now, do you want to answer the actual point about the morality of cash rich Germany refusing to pay the "debt" I referred to at the same time as leading the charge to enforce its bank debts? Edited by legaleagle (09 Jul 2015 9.56pm)
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