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March 29 2024 11.17am

Why are 'refugees' just called 'migrants' now?

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View Ray in Houston's Profile Ray in Houston Flag Houston 24 Aug 15 6.14pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 24 Aug 2015 5.38pm

But Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany in the 1930's went all over and didn't just end up next door in Poland or France and they weren't called migrants.


I'm not sure that taking refuge in Poland or France would have been a good strategy for them.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 24 Aug 15 6.17pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

From the UN website:


Who is a refugee?


"A refugee is someone who has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war, or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries."


So Syrians are definitely not migrants yet I don't see them being called refugees by the media either. I suppose if they were called refugees than it has an emotional impact which for one reason or another is not desired by those that pull the heart strings.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 24 Aug 15 6.19pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote Ray in Houston at 24 Aug 2015 6.14pm

Quote Kermit8 at 24 Aug 2015 5.38pm

But Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany in the 1930's went all over and didn't just end up next door in Poland or France and they weren't called migrants.


I'm not sure that taking refuge in Poland or France would have been a good strategy for them.


Quite a few though thought it would be. That didn't work out well for them at all.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 24 Aug 15 6.26pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote elgrande at 24 Aug 2015 5.52pm

Quote Kermit8 at 24 Aug 2015 5.38pm

Quote Jamesrichards8 at 24 Aug 2015 5.33pm

Well, these people, as true 'refugees' wouldn't be allowed to pick and choose which country they seek asylum in. They are in France, and other non-violent countries, yet seek asylum elsewhere. Refugees seek refuge in the first peaceful country they enter.
I've got to get off this site. The liberal bulls*** is doing my head in.
Cue some sarcastic reply applauding my decision to leave. Gee this site has really gotten boring.


But Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany in the 1930's went all over and didn't just end up next door in Poland or France and they weren't called migrants. if you are genuinely fleeing a war or murderous persecution wherever you end up surely you are still a refugee and not a migrant.

It is the manipulation of language that is interesting and our subservience to it.


Think there is a slight difference there Kerms,seeing as Nazi Germany extended most of Europe.
Poland /France/Holland/Austria/Italy all under Nazi rule.
The Jews were being Hunted all over Europe by the nazi, the Migrants/Refugees are not.


I meant just in the 1930's and before Poland was invaded. Many Jewish 'refugees' got out and the diaspora went worldwide. My point being of course that just because some chose to go further afield than the nearest safe haven did not stop them being refugees. Any Syrians fleeing IS and murderous persecution by their own government who end up here or in Germany or elsewhere are not 'migrants' however much the media or others with an agenda try to make it so.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 24 Aug 15 6.32pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote Catfish at 24 Aug 2015 6.00pm

Quote Kermit8 at 24 Aug 2015 5.38pm

Quote Jamesrichards8 at 24 Aug 2015 5.33pm

Well, these people, as true 'refugees' wouldn't be allowed to pick and choose which country they seek asylum in. They are in France, and other non-violent countries, yet seek asylum elsewhere. Refugees seek refuge in the first peaceful country they enter.
I've got to get off this site. The liberal bulls*** is doing my head in.
Cue some sarcastic reply applauding my decision to leave. Gee this site has really gotten boring.[/quote


But Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany in the 1930's went all over and didn't just end up next door in Poland or France and they weren't called migrants. if you are genuinely fleeing a war or murderous persecution wherever you end up surely you are still a refugee and not a migrant.

It is the manipulation of language that is interesting and our subservience to it.

It is entirely possible that the media are manipulating language but the expressions used officially are based on statute and conventions. Some expressions are used wrongly by the media such as deportation - which has a very precise meaning in law. The expressions such as illegal immigrant have bad connotations because of the way they were used as euphemisms in the 60s. Illegal immigrant is actually a reasonable description of someone who has entered the UK without permission.
What is a poorer use of language is to label someone a refugee without knowing anything about their motives.


I would hope that being a citizen of Aleppo would tell those that can help that that is motive enough. Anyone who is on the receiving end and coming from a severe war-zone is a refugee.

 


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View corkery's Profile corkery Flag Cork City 24 Aug 15 6.42pm Send a Private Message to corkery Add corkery as a friend

Of the Migrants that claim asylum in Ireland, 92% are found not to be economic migrants and deported. I'm not sure how the rest of Europe adds up but I'd say figures like that make them say the word 'migrant.'

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Aug 15 6.49pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 24 Aug 2015 6.26pm

I meant just in the 1930's and before Poland was invaded. Many Jewish 'refugees' got out and the diaspora went worldwide. My point being of course that just because some chose to go further afield than the nearest safe haven did not stop them being refugees. Any Syrians fleeing IS and murderous persecution by their own government who end up here or in Germany or elsewhere are not 'migrants' however much the media or others with an agenda try to make it so.


It does stop them being refugees.

Unless they have a family or previous connection to a particular country they should be taking the first safe haven.

The use of WW2 as an excuse for moving towards richer northern European countries is patently ridiculous.

Italy or Greece are in absolutely no danger of an fundamentalist Islamic takeover.

The conceit that there is a binary choice between refugee and economic immigrant in many of these situations......is nonsense.


 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hoof Hearted 24 Aug 15 6.50pm

I call them Cuckoos.

Waits for indignant backlash.........

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Aug 15 6.51pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

What we should be doing is moving them all to the socialist republic of Scotland.

I think we would probably see the rise of Scottish Ukip.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View johnfirewall's Profile johnfirewall Flag 24 Aug 15 6.54pm Send a Private Message to johnfirewall Add johnfirewall as a friend

Because they're just people moving from one country to another. Neither side of the political spectrum seem willing to drill down in to the where and why. That would be racial discrimination deciding who you don't want or opening the floodgates deciding who you do.

Edited by johnfirewall (24 Aug 2015 6.58pm)

 

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Hoof Hearted 24 Aug 15 6.56pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Aug 2015 6.51pm

What we should be doing is moving them all to the socialist republic of Scotland.

I think we would probably see the rise of Scottish Ukip.


"Bloody A Rabs coming here eating all our deep fried mars bars an drinkin all our Irn Bru!"

 

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Catfish Flag Burgess Hill 24 Aug 15 8.24pm

Quote Kermit8 at 24 Aug 2015 6.32pm

Quote Catfish at 24 Aug 2015 6.00pm

Quote Kermit8 at 24 Aug 2015 5.38pm

Quote Jamesrichards8 at 24 Aug 2015 5.33pm

Well, these people, as true 'refugees' wouldn't be allowed to pick and choose which country they seek asylum in. They are in France, and other non-violent countries, yet seek asylum elsewhere. Refugees seek refuge in the first peaceful country they enter.
I've got to get off this site. The liberal bulls*** is doing my head in.
Cue some sarcastic reply applauding my decision to leave. Gee this site has really gotten boring.[/quote


But Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany in the 1930's went all over and didn't just end up next door in Poland or France and they weren't called migrants. if you are genuinely fleeing a war or murderous persecution wherever you end up surely you are still a refugee and not a migrant.

It is the manipulation of language that is interesting and our subservience to it.

It is entirely possible that the media are manipulating language but the expressions used officially are based on statute and conventions. Some expressions are used wrongly by the media such as deportation - which has a very precise meaning in law. The expressions such as illegal immigrant have bad connotations because of the way they were used as euphemisms in the 60s. Illegal immigrant is actually a reasonable description of someone who has entered the UK without permission.
What is a poorer use of language is to label someone a refugee without knowing anything about their motives.


I would hope that being a citizen of Aleppo would tell those that can help that that is motive enough. Anyone who is on the receiving end and coming from a severe war-zone is a refugee.

I agree. Anyone fleeing a war zone who fears persecution is a refugee.

 


Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial

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