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Labour on the EU

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View blind eagle's Profile blind eagle Flag Covington.Tennessee 07 Sep 15 6.50pm Send a Private Message to blind eagle Add blind eagle as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 07 Sep 2015 6.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Sep 2015 4.47pm

They were as naive with a severe lack of foresight then as UKIP are now.


Don't you think the EU has made a massive f*** up with its uncoordinated approach to the 'refugee crisis'?


He has by now got use to the fact that the EU is for ever making massive f*** so the refugee crisis is just another parr for the course.

 

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 07 Sep 15 6.52pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 6.20pm

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Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 4.37pm

Why the complete change of direction Labour

Because Labour were running on an anti-capitalist manifesto and saw the EU as a capitalist club. UKIP and much of the Tory Party are anti EU because it prevents companies from being able to exploit their workforce

The so called free movement of labour due to the EU has certainly enabled companies to exploit their workforce with low wages.

Which is easily resolved by increasing the minimum wage.

Some wages would still below what they were before the jobs were taken by EU immigrants prepared to work for much less. UKIP and others want us to make our own laws, control our own borders and run the country in the UK national interest rather than in the interests of disparate groups in Europe.

Of course the first thing that would happen if we left the EU would be that everything we see in Calais and elsewhere would be happening in Dover.

Actually that isn't the first thing to happen would be widespread cancellation of investment in the UK as international organizations can no longer take advantage of Britains place in the EU.

Next would be the crisis in the NHS should the vast number of international workers feel they have more opportunities in the EU

The irony being that, as with the likes of Switzerland and Norway to which UKIP always refer - they enact almost all EU law anyway as tee price of access to the markets.

You mean EU immigrants going home - great. The biggest problem we would face would be controlling the dancing in the streets.

Idiotic comment. Just about every hospital in the UK would close

An you say my comment was idiotic!

I do say that and repeat it. What percentage of doctors and other professional staff are not British nationals? I assume you know the answer otherwise you look foolish trying you explain how you are going to have to replace them.

I think the BMA might want to have a word as well

Non-UK NHS staff I understand to be around 11%. The NHS would not collapse if we left the EU, the economy would not collapse if we left the EU. Economies in EU countries like Greece and Spain have certainly collapsed due to being members of the EU. It is just scaremongering by the pro-EU lobby as they are beginning to realise that there is a real possibility of us leaving. They would no doubt be some transitional issues, but the benefits of regaining control of our own country are worth far more.


For professionally qualified staff it is 14% and for Doctors it is 26%. You dont think all those missing doctors might have an impact?

Greece and Spain are in a mess as a result of their own actions - in particular Greece with corrupt governments who didn't bother collecting taxes. You could certainly say it was made even worse by membership of the Euro but not the EU

Why would they all leave?

If Greece and Spain were independant they would have been able to control their own ecconomies and currencies far better. The EU had presided over the biggest financial crisis that Europe has ever faced and the biggest migration crisis. Still as long as French farmers can keep their 4-wheel-drives and huge payouts for dumping food, and foreign fishermen can deplete what was once British fishing waters, that's ok. On the subject of fishing, it does take real genius to destroy a fishing industry in a country surrounded by water.

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 07 Sep 15 11.29pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 07 Sep 2015 5.56pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 5.42pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 5.20pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 5.10pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 4.59pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 4.54pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 4.37pm

Why the complete change of direction Labour

Because Labour were running on an anti-capitalist manifesto and saw the EU as a capitalist club. UKIP and much of the Tory Party are anti EU because it prevents companies from being able to exploit their workforce

The so called free movement of labour due to the EU has certainly enabled companies to exploit their workforce with low wages.

Which is easily resolved by increasing the minimum wage.

Some wages would still below what they were before the jobs were taken by EU immigrants prepared to work for much less. UKIP and others want us to make our own laws, control our own borders and run the country in the UK national interest rather than in the interests of disparate groups in Europe.

Of course the first thing that would happen if we left the EU would be that everything we see in Calais and elsewhere would be happening in Dover.

Actually that isn't the first thing to happen would be widespread cancellation of investment in the UK as international organizations can no longer take advantage of Britains place in the EU.

Next would be the crisis in the NHS should the vast number of international workers feel they have more opportunities in the EU

The irony being that, as with the likes of Switzerland and Norway to which UKIP always refer - they enact almost all EU law anyway as tee price of access to the markets.

You mean EU immigrants going home - great. The biggest problem we would face would be controlling the dancing in the streets.

Where will you house the ex pats coming home?

We would simply boot out our feckless tenants.....

 


Pro USA & Israel

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 08 Sep 15 6.53am Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Update
[Link]

&#128515;

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Sep 15 6.58am

Quote dannyboy1978 at 08 Sep 2015 6.53am

Update
[Link]

&#128515;


Why are you putting petitions against immigration in multiple threads? Just the once will do surely?

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 08 Sep 15 7.22am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 4.31pm

A discussion of the 1983 General Election triggered me to re-read the Labour Party Manifesto of 1983.

The section on 'Britain and the Common Market' makes interesting reading and I thought it deserved a separate thread:

"Geography and history determine that Britain is part of Europe, and Labour wants to see Europe safe and prosperous. But the European Economic Community was never devised to suit us, and our experience as a member of it has made it more difficult for us to deal with our economic and industrial problems. It has sometimes weakened our ability to achieve the objectives of Labour's international policy. The next Labour government, committed to radical, socialist policies for reviving the British economy, is bound to find continued membership a most serious obstacle to the fulfilment of those policies. In particular the rules of the Treaty of Rome are bound to conflict with our strategy for economic growth and full employment, our proposals on industrial policy and for increasing trade, and our need to restore exchange controls and to regulate direct overseas investment. Moreover, by preventing us from buying food from the best sources of world supply, they would run counter to our plans to control prices and inflation. For all these reasons, British withdrawal from the Community is the right policy for Britain - to be completed well within the lifetime of the parliament. That is our commitment."

It could be from the UKIP manifesto (apart from the 'radical, socialist policies for ruining (sorry should read reviving) the British economy'. Why the complete change of direction Labour? I know left wingers are used to sudden changes of party line when they have to condemn things when they are perpetrated by people they disapprove of, but ignore the same things when they are carried out by comrades, but this is a startling turn around. I did read somewhere that Corbyn is still anti-EU, but I expect he is still mentally in 1983. In any event he is very quite on the subject.

At least the Treaty of Rome was economic - it's Maastrict that's done the damage.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 08 Sep 15 7.28am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 07 Sep 2015 6.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Sep 2015 4.47pm

They were as naive with a severe lack of foresight then as UKIP are now.


Don't you think the EU has made a massive f*** up with its uncoordinated approach to the 'refugee crisis'?


I don't think anyone predicted it - and if it was seen as a risk I think we'd be entitled to expect the Gulf states to do a bit more.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Sep 15 10.29am

Quote matt_himself at 07 Sep 2015 6.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Sep 2015 4.47pm

They were as naive with a severe lack of foresight then as UKIP are now.


Don't you think the EU has made a massive f*** up with its uncoordinated approach to the 'refugee crisis'?

Not really, its a crisis, and its more or less getting to grips with it, and as the EU exists as its memberstates, even if it has, the failure isn't with the EU per se, but with the unwillingess of EU memberstates to deal with a problem until its a crisis.

I don't think the individual memberstates would have dealt with it any better, just ignored it more.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 08 Sep 15 10.47am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 10.29am

Quote matt_himself at 07 Sep 2015 6.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Sep 2015 4.47pm

They were as naive with a severe lack of foresight then as UKIP are now.


Don't you think the EU has made a massive f*** up with its uncoordinated approach to the 'refugee crisis'?

Not really, its a crisis, and its more or less getting to grips with it, and as the EU exists as its memberstates, even if it has, the failure isn't with the EU per se, but with the unwillingess of EU memberstates to deal with a problem until its a crisis.

I don't think the individual memberstates would have dealt with it any better, just ignored it more.


Just further illustrates what an unwieldy shambles the EU is. Getting so many disparate countries and interests to agree on anything is wishful thinking.

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Sep 15 11.37am

Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 10.47am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 10.29am

Quote matt_himself at 07 Sep 2015 6.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Sep 2015 4.47pm

They were as naive with a severe lack of foresight then as UKIP are now.


Don't you think the EU has made a massive f*** up with its uncoordinated approach to the 'refugee crisis'?

Not really, its a crisis, and its more or less getting to grips with it, and as the EU exists as its memberstates, even if it has, the failure isn't with the EU per se, but with the unwillingess of EU memberstates to deal with a problem until its a crisis.

I don't think the individual memberstates would have dealt with it any better, just ignored it more.


Just further illustrates what an unwieldy shambles the EU is. Getting so many disparate countries and interests to agree on anything is wishful thinking.

Easier with the EU than without though.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Sedlescombe's Profile Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 08 Sep 15 2.06pm Send a Private Message to Sedlescombe Add Sedlescombe as a friend

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 6.52pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 6.20pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 6.15pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 6.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 5.58pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 5.51pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 5.42pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 5.20pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 5.10pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 4.59pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 4.54pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 4.37pm

Why the complete change of direction Labour

Because Labour were running on an anti-capitalist manifesto and saw the EU as a capitalist club. UKIP and much of the Tory Party are anti EU because it prevents companies from being able to exploit their workforce

The so called free movement of labour due to the EU has certainly enabled companies to exploit their workforce with low wages.

Which is easily resolved by increasing the minimum wage.

Some wages would still below what they were before the jobs were taken by EU immigrants prepared to work for much less. UKIP and others want us to make our own laws, control our own borders and run the country in the UK national interest rather than in the interests of disparate groups in Europe.

Of course the first thing that would happen if we left the EU would be that everything we see in Calais and elsewhere would be happening in Dover.

Actually that isn't the first thing to happen would be widespread cancellation of investment in the UK as international organizations can no longer take advantage of Britains place in the EU.

Next would be the crisis in the NHS should the vast number of international workers feel they have more opportunities in the EU

The irony being that, as with the likes of Switzerland and Norway to which UKIP always refer - they enact almost all EU law anyway as tee price of access to the markets.

You mean EU immigrants going home - great. The biggest problem we would face would be controlling the dancing in the streets.

Idiotic comment. Just about every hospital in the UK would close

An you say my comment was idiotic!

I do say that and repeat it. What percentage of doctors and other professional staff are not British nationals? I assume you know the answer otherwise you look foolish trying you explain how you are going to have to replace them.

I think the BMA might want to have a word as well

Non-UK NHS staff I understand to be around 11%. The NHS would not collapse if we left the EU, the economy would not collapse if we left the EU. Economies in EU countries like Greece and Spain have certainly collapsed due to being members of the EU. It is just scaremongering by the pro-EU lobby as they are beginning to realise that there is a real possibility of us leaving. They would no doubt be some transitional issues, but the benefits of regaining control of our own country are worth far more.


For professionally qualified staff it is 14% and for Doctors it is 26%. You dont think all those missing doctors might have an impact?

Greece and Spain are in a mess as a result of their own actions - in particular Greece with corrupt governments who didn't bother collecting taxes. You could certainly say it was made even worse by membership of the Euro but not the EU

Why would they all leave?

If Greece and Spain were independant they would have been able to control their own ecconomies and currencies far better. The EU had presided over the biggest financial crisis that Europe has ever faced and the biggest migration crisis. Still as long as French farmers can keep their 4-wheel-drives and huge payouts for dumping food, and foreign fishermen can deplete what was once British fishing waters, that's ok. On the subject of fishing, it does take real genius to destroy a fishing industry in a country surrounded by water.

More to the point why would they stay given the hostile attitude of people posting here - such as the "dancing in the street" comment and much wider opportunities elsewhere. we will still be enacting most EU legislation as does Norway and Switzerland. Why do you think we will be any different

As for Greece and Spain - their problems are of their own making. Explain why you think the EU is responsible?

Certainly being members of the Euro exacerbated their problems because they couldn't devalue their way out of their problems but that is a separate point. You are right that we will have the right to fish ourselves to extinction which we were well on the way to doing before controls were put on.

 

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 08 Sep 15 3.37pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 08 Sep 2015 2.06pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 6.52pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 6.20pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 6.15pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 6.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 5.58pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 5.51pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 5.42pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 5.20pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 5.10pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 4.59pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Sep 2015 4.54pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 07 Sep 2015 4.37pm

Why the complete change of direction Labour

Because Labour were running on an anti-capitalist manifesto and saw the EU as a capitalist club. UKIP and much of the Tory Party are anti EU because it prevents companies from being able to exploit their workforce

The so called free movement of labour due to the EU has certainly enabled companies to exploit their workforce with low wages.

Which is easily resolved by increasing the minimum wage.

Some wages would still below what they were before the jobs were taken by EU immigrants prepared to work for much less. UKIP and others want us to make our own laws, control our own borders and run the country in the UK national interest rather than in the interests of disparate groups in Europe.

Of course the first thing that would happen if we left the EU would be that everything we see in Calais and elsewhere would be happening in Dover.

Actually that isn't the first thing to happen would be widespread cancellation of investment in the UK as international organizations can no longer take advantage of Britains place in the EU.

Next would be the crisis in the NHS should the vast number of international workers feel they have more opportunities in the EU

The irony being that, as with the likes of Switzerland and Norway to which UKIP always refer - they enact almost all EU law anyway as tee price of access to the markets.

You mean EU immigrants going home - great. The biggest problem we would face would be controlling the dancing in the streets.

Idiotic comment. Just about every hospital in the UK would close

An you say my comment was idiotic!

I do say that and repeat it. What percentage of doctors and other professional staff are not British nationals? I assume you know the answer otherwise you look foolish trying you explain how you are going to have to replace them.

I think the BMA might want to have a word as well

Non-UK NHS staff I understand to be around 11%. The NHS would not collapse if we left the EU, the economy would not collapse if we left the EU. Economies in EU countries like Greece and Spain have certainly collapsed due to being members of the EU. It is just scaremongering by the pro-EU lobby as they are beginning to realise that there is a real possibility of us leaving. They would no doubt be some transitional issues, but the benefits of regaining control of our own country are worth far more.


For professionally qualified staff it is 14% and for Doctors it is 26%. You dont think all those missing doctors might have an impact?

Greece and Spain are in a mess as a result of their own actions - in particular Greece with corrupt governments who didn't bother collecting taxes. You could certainly say it was made even worse by membership of the Euro but not the EU

Why would they all leave?

If Greece and Spain were independant they would have been able to control their own ecconomies and currencies far better. The EU had presided over the biggest financial crisis that Europe has ever faced and the biggest migration crisis. Still as long as French farmers can keep their 4-wheel-drives and huge payouts for dumping food, and foreign fishermen can deplete what was once British fishing waters, that's ok. On the subject of fishing, it does take real genius to destroy a fishing industry in a country surrounded by water.

More to the point why would they stay given the hostile attitude of people posting here - such as the "dancing in the street" comment and much wider opportunities elsewhere. we will still be enacting most EU legislation as does Norway and Switzerland. Why do you think we will be any different

As for Greece and Spain - their problems are of their own making. Explain why you think the EU is responsible?

Certainly being members of the Euro exacerbated their problems because they couldn't devalue their way out of their problems but that is a separate point. You are right that we will have the right to fish ourselves to extinction which we were well on the way to doing before controls were put on.

Right, so all the non-UK doctors will leave Britain because someone on a Crystal Palace forum made a joke about people dancing in the streets when we leave the EU? Sensitive lot these non-UK doctors. Much wider opportunities elsewhere? Presumably they thought they had found a good opportunity when they came here to work, how will that have changed - still the same job, still the same wages. Just because Norway and Switzerland choose to enact some EU legislation does not mean we will. We can keep what we think is in the interests of the UK and discard the rest.

The Eurozone is a intregral part of the EU 'project', ie, the move towards A United States of Europe (God help us). Greece shouldn’t have been in the Eurozone and that the whole Euro project is breaking apart under the fluctuations of the different economies. Greece and Germany don’t fit in the same picture, for example. Youth unemployment is up, debt is up, poverty is up. Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece all have obscene levels of youth unemployment. Germany provides 27% of Eurozone GDP; Greece just 3%. Quality of life in Germany is 20% ABOVE average. In Greece it is 20% BELOW average. The difference between these two countries could not be more apparent, yet they both have the same currency. This means either the EU’s rulers are just plain stupid, or more plausibly, they’ve deliberately ignored the facts for their own benefit and agenda. As you say yourself, Greece could not devalue, it is not in control of its own economy. All of these countries are also hamstrung by being subject to countless EU regulations, pushed upon them by an unelected EU Commission.

Twenty-three per cent of the entire fishing quota the EU non-elected bureaucrats allow Britain now goes to a single giant Dutch trawler, the Cornelis Vrolijk, to land all its catches in Holland. Pre EU membership Britain had Europe’s largest fishing fleet and 80 per cent of all its fishing waters. Heath then gave way to the EU’s demand that all fishing waters must be merged as a “common European resource” with a complex system of national 'quotas', that allowed Britain’s fishermen just 13 per cent by value of this new “common resource”. Another appalling aspect of the the new system was the 'discards' policy, forcing fishermen to chuck back into the sea millions of dead fish for which they had no quota. Now, years later, after yet another joke meeting in Brussels, we are told the environmental discards disaster has been ended. Fishermen must now bring all their catch back to land. But only so that millions of fish can now be discarded to landfill instead. Meanwhile, Britain’s fishing industry moves closer to extinction along with the fish being factory farmed by our EU 'partners'.

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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