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March 28 2024 2.59pm

Cameron does a Blair

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 08 Sep 15 7.25pm

Although you can expect the usual from the swivel eye and the Zionists posters, I think that the issue is actually quite complex:

Firstly, we are nor at war, we have not declared war and the Government would be extremely unwilling to recognise ISIL as a national state. Therefore, it was not an attack on foreign armed forces, but British subjects. It is interesting to know if they have actually committed an offence against UK law?

Secondly, the two British IS fighters were definitely not acting in the interest of the British Government, they more than likely have killed Syrian and Iraqi fighters. Unlike Jihadi John I am unaware that they have committed / participated in atrocities or genocide. Therefore, should they be considered any different to the British that fought Franco and the Nationalists in Spain?

Thirdly, it has been mooted today that they may have been involved in terrorists activities in the UK; however, nothing has been disclosed.

Fourth, although we do not have the death penalty is it a "extra-judicial execution" similar to a South American Junta?

Fifth,I doubt for the swivel eye, I need write no more than The EU Charter on Human Rights.

My view is that although Cameroon has acted outside the Law, and has set a worrying precedent of execution without recourse to a justice system; in a similar manner, to Blair. He believes that he is acting in the best interest of the UK people has a whole.

As for the morality, he is a politician nuff said.

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 08 Sep 15 7.27pm

Quote matt_himself at 08 Sep 2015 7.23pm

Quote nickgusset at 08 Sep 2015 5.54pm

Quote sickboy at 08 Sep 2015 5.29pm

This is not Bush/Blair and Iraq. This is about national security and if it prevents ANY terror atrocities anywhere in the world then long may it continue. If you want to gun down defenceless people sitting on a beach, or hack to death a young man like Lee Rigby in the most horrific way imaginable, or indeed subscribe to those views, in my book you deserve all that is coming your way and stuff the niceties or legality of it.


Gunning down innocent people on a beach? Isn't that also an Israeli tactic? Should we send in drones?


They murder innocents a-plenty in the socialist republics of Cuba and North Korea.

You should consider using em as a basis of comparison in future.


I doubt it makes any of them more than morally bankrupt. Just don't pretend any of them are civilised countries.

Edited by pefwin (08 Sep 2015 7.27pm)

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Sep 15 7.33pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 7.25pm

Quote nickgusset at 08 Sep 2015 5.54pm

Quote sickboy at 08 Sep 2015 5.29pm

This is not Bush/Blair and Iraq. This is about national security and if it prevents ANY terror atrocities anywhere in the world then long may it continue. If you want to gun down defenceless people sitting on a beach, or hack to death a young man like Lee Rigby in the most horrific way imaginable, or indeed subscribe to those views, in my book you deserve all that is coming your way and stuff the niceties or legality of it.


Gunning down innocent people on a beach? Isn't that also an Israeli tactic? Should we send in drones?

Looks like the drone is already here with your predictable, diversionary anti-Israel comment.


Not diversionary, just saying like.

 

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View oldcodger's Profile oldcodger Flag 08 Sep 15 7.59pm Send a Private Message to oldcodger Add oldcodger as a friend

A look at the legal argument case in favour of the action taken [Link]

 

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 08 Sep 15 8.10pm

Quote oldcodger at 08 Sep 2015 7.59pm

A look at the legal argument case in favour of the action taken [Link]

Quite interesting, he seems to argue on the crux “Principles relevant to the scope of a state’s right of self-defense against an imminent or actual armed attack by nonstate actors”

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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View sickboy's Profile sickboy Flag Deal or Croydon 08 Sep 15 8.15pm Send a Private Message to sickboy Add sickboy as a friend

I understand that we are all different and are all entitled to our opinions but reading the liberal/left apologist views of some people makes me despair. then again IS may well respond to us asking them nicely to stop for a bit so we can have a chat about a solution. I would also like to know why this is being compared to the israelies or the falklands conflict. IS, is a very specific problem and a "gloves off" pro active policy seems to be the only option that will work. please dont start about human rights or due process as these people are not worthy of either.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Sep 15 8.31pm

Quote sickboy at 08 Sep 2015 8.15pm

I understand that we are all different and are all entitled to our opinions but reading the liberal/left apologist views of some people makes me despair. then again IS may well respond to us asking them nicely to stop for a bit so we can have a chat about a solution. I would also like to know why this is being compared to the israelies or the falklands conflict. IS, is a very specific problem and a "gloves off" pro active policy seems to be the only option that will work. please dont start about human rights or due process as these people are not worthy of either.

Who on this thread has been an apologist for the 'so called' islamic state? Name and shame them with evidence of their support. We could get them arrested for treason and everything I reckon.

 

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 08 Sep 15 9.27pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

I do wonder whether the WWII would turn out the same if fought with the same media attention and social media outlets that exist now.

People have a rose tinted view of the war but a lot of stuff went on that nowadays would have the left (I say that because it is primarily the left) in uproar. Propaganda, misinformation, internment, never mind the resistance and some of the dodgy actions that took place.

War is an awful people die, innocent people, evil people, misguided etc. it's what happens. Computer games and Rambo seems to have made people think you can just take out the bad guys nice and cleanly.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 08 Sep 15 9.41pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 08 Sep 2015 9.27pm

I do wonder whether the WWII would turn out the same if fought with the same media attention and social media outlets that exist now.

People have a rose tinted view of the war but a lot of stuff went on that nowadays would have the left (I say that because it is primarily the left) in uproar. Propaganda, misinformation, internment, never mind the resistance and some of the dodgy actions that took place.

War is an awful people die, innocent people, evil people, misguided etc. it's what happens. Computer games and Rambo seems to have made people think you can just take out the bad guys nice and cleanly.

Excellent point, but I would suggest that it was not Rambo but the US depiction of Desert Shield / Storm that drives peoples perception of a "clean war". But perhaps they missed the pictures of the Iraqi retreat from Kuwait.

Historically, to dampen the affects of the televised horror of war, I would recognise Churchill's refusal to allow colour bulletins and Thatcher's enforced delay on certain aspects of news from the Falklands. There's a whole different debate around the wrongs and rights of censorship.

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 08 Sep 15 10.18pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Even the retreat was clean from an allied perspective.

The Apache helicopters picking off the retreating convoys was straight out of a computer game. Funnily enough Prince Harry got pelters when he said pretty much the same thing.

The pictures from the next day obviously showed the true horror of the war.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View jcreedy's Profile jcreedy Flag 09 Sep 15 12.34am Send a Private Message to jcreedy Add jcreedy as a friend

Quote elgrande at 08 Sep 2015 5.59pm

Quote nickgusset at 08 Sep 2015 5.54pm

Quote sickboy at 08 Sep 2015 5.29pm

This is not Bush/Blair and Iraq. This is about national security and if it prevents ANY terror atrocities anywhere in the world then long may it continue. If you want to gun down defenceless people sitting on a beach, or hack to death a young man like Lee Rigby in the most horrific way imaginable, or indeed subscribe to those views, in my book you deserve all that is coming your way and stuff the niceties or legality of it.


Gunning down innocent people on a beach? Isn't that also an Israeli tactic? Should we send in drones?


Israel is not a threat to our national security....IS are

They're a f***ing evil threat to Gaza and its occupants. As long as they're not harming us though, we'll just let them carry on with illegally grabbing land, imposing blockades, and murdering children.

 


It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 09 Sep 15 8.02am Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 2.50pm

Quote susmik at 08 Sep 2015 2.18pm

Does it really matter as long as they are not around to kill and maim people. Lets hope a few more go the same way. At least our prime minister had the guts to OK the drone strikes where the labourites just want to sweep it under the table. They should be ashamed of themselves as due to their vote against Syrian strikes there are thousands and thousands of people fleeing their country and invading the European union!

Yeah it does matter, because sooner or later if you don't follow your own rules you end up defining targets in looser and looser sense, and you're killing people who might or might not be the enemy or you think probably are.

Pure summation on your part (not for the first time on this subject)

Look at the US and its torture, abduction and detention of suspected Terrorists. It went very quickly from 'key known targets' to people who just had the misfortunate to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time or have similar names.

Please see above. Not withstanding the fact the USA were victims of the biggest terrorist attack in known history and 3500 ( try to imagine that amount of dead bodies) innocent people on their way to work are at work, just wiped out.

Nothing against killing the right people. It just that when the state sponsors the assassination of individual in another country, its probably better to have good though oversight and confirmation, than to just give them a free hand and take their word for it.

Your assuming (again) that they didnt have rock solid intelligence. You also seem to be stating that any strike back on terror needs to be rubber stamped ? do you know how many operations the the UKSF went on in NI to bring the IRA to it's knees ? Hundreds, and they weren't voted on in parliment.

War (for that is what it is) is not for civvies to get involved in. ISIS don't ask permission to cut someones head off live on TV do they ?

When someone acts in self defense, we expect them to demonstrate it was reasonable to do so. So to the state.

Utterly utterly naive and has no place on a battlefield, and if you were a general and had that attitude you would loose more and more men, until you realised war isnt fair and above board, it's a dirty business.

We have LOAC (Law Of Armed Conflict) and as long as that was applied I have nothing but rare praise for the Crabs.



Edited by dannyh (09 Sep 2015 8.03am)

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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