Warren Mitchell

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Midlands Eagle 18 Nov 15 3.59pm
Quote The Sash at 18 Nov 2015 12.41pm It looks like I am in a minority of one but I thought both Til Death us Do Part and In Sickness and in Health were f*cking dreadful Judging by your photo you're probably too young to have enjoyed the series when it first came out in the mid sixties. It was original and part of it's appeal was that we all knew an Alf Garnett type much as decades later we had all worked with a David Brent type character. The series did run on for a few too many years and In Sickness and in Health wasn't a patch on the original series.
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Midlands Eagle

18 Nov 15 3.59pm

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Quote The Sash at 18 Nov 2015 12.41pm

It looks like I am in a minority of one but I thought both Til Death us Do Part and In Sickness and in Health were f*cking dreadful

Judging by your photo you're probably too young to have enjoyed the series when it first came out in the mid sixties.

It was original and part of it's appeal was that we all knew an Alf Garnett type much as decades later we had all worked with a David Brent type character.

The series did run on for a few too many years and In Sickness and in Health wasn't a patch on the original series.

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richard shaw (og)65 my minds eye 18 Nov 15 4.06pm
as a kid , watching the series I thought everyone in the east end was like that , it just seemed so dismal and depressing and that's from a kid living in catford ! interviewer " iggy , do you think you influenced anybody?" iggy pop " I think I wiped out the 60`S "
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richard shaw (og)65

my minds eye 18 Nov 15 4.06pm

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as a kid , watching the series I thought everyone in the east end was like that , it just seemed so dismal and depressing and that's from a kid living in catford !

interviewer " iggy , do you think you influenced anybody?"
iggy pop " I think I wiped out the 60`S "

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 18 Nov 15 4.10pm
Quote The Sash at 18 Nov 2015 12.41pm It looks like I am in a minority of one but I thought both Til Death us Do Part and In Sickness and in Health were fcking dreadful Make that a minority of two. Couldn't stand either of them. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham*
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 18 Nov 15 4.10pm

Quote The Sash at 18 Nov 2015 12.41pm

It looks like I am in a minority of one but I thought both Til Death us Do Part and In Sickness and in Health were f*cking dreadful

Make that a minority of two. Couldn't stand either of them.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Superfly The sun always shines in Catford 18 Nov 15 4.46pm
In Sickness was labouring the joke too much (wasn't there a gay black social worker to wind him up?). Till Death was before my time but I still find enjoyment in bunging one on YouTube every so often. That's enjoyment based on it's content and not for the purpose of furiously knocking one out to Dandy Nichols. That's a bonus. Lend me a Tenor 31 May to 3 June 2017 John McIntosh Arts Centre London Oratory School SW6 1RX with Superfly in the chorus [Link]
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Superfly

The sun always shines in Catford 18 Nov 15 4.46pm

In Sickness was labouring the joke too much (wasn't there a gay black social worker to wind him up?).

Till Death was before my time but I still find enjoyment in bunging one on YouTube every so often. That's enjoyment based on it's content and not for the purpose of furiously knocking one out to Dandy Nichols. That's a bonus.

Lend me a Tenor

31 May to 3 June 2017

John McIntosh Arts Centre
London Oratory School
SW6 1RX

with Superfly in the chorus
[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 18 Nov 15 5.57pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Nov 2015 3.41pm Quote Kermit8 at 14 Nov 2015 12.57pm RIP Alf The PC brigade never quite got it that Johnny Speight was highlighting the ignorance of bigotry so thought the character offensive. The character was a one-off and simply brilliant with subtext that only the terminally stupid couldn't understand. Actually the series is regarded as being a model of political correctness in action, albeit first generation political correctness, because it generated controversy in order to stimulate debate and engagement. Its like the 'Ban Baa Baa Black Sheep' people don't realise that initially the story began with PC social engineering theory about psycholinguistics and constructionism, which eventually was picked up as a story by the usual suspects. The whole point of things like this, is that they reflect on both sides of the fence (those who are PC to the point of being bigots, and those who defend bigotry). Maybe. Political correctness was originally an American invention which crossed the pond in the 70's. Before that we the joe public had Mary Whitehouse's experience to tell us what was acceptable and what was not. And she hated Garnett with a vengeance. She really didn't get it. Which, in her case, was obviously part of her ongoing problem. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 18 Nov 15 5.57pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Nov 2015 3.41pm

Quote Kermit8 at 14 Nov 2015 12.57pm

RIP Alf

The PC brigade never quite got it that Johnny Speight was highlighting the ignorance of bigotry so thought the character offensive. The character was a one-off and simply brilliant with subtext that only the terminally stupid couldn't understand.

Actually the series is regarded as being a model of political correctness in action, albeit first generation political correctness, because it generated controversy in order to stimulate debate and engagement.

Its like the 'Ban Baa Baa Black Sheep' people don't realise that initially the story began with PC social engineering theory about psycholinguistics and constructionism, which eventually was picked up as a story by the usual suspects.

The whole point of things like this, is that they reflect on both sides of the fence (those who are PC to the point of being bigots, and those who defend bigotry).

Maybe. Political correctness was originally an American invention which crossed the pond in the 70's. Before that we the joe public had Mary Whitehouse's experience to tell us what was acceptable and what was not. And she hated Garnett with a vengeance. She really didn't get it.

Which, in her case, was obviously part of her ongoing problem.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 18 Nov 15 6.06pm
Quote legaleagle at 16 Nov 2015 11.26pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 16 Nov 2015 4.03pm What Alf Garnett says to me is that Speight was a typically arrogant media lefty who used his writing to enforce his own views. That is so typical of the deluded pseudo intellectual lefty type who fails to recognise the wider and deeper issues and strokes his own ego by belittling the ignorant for their predictable attitudes. Yes, people were right to be concerned about immigrants for a number of reasons that are now becoming clear. The institutionalised and wide spread public racism that raised it's head in the face of increasing immigration was predictable in a post empire country and the PC reaction that emerged to counter it was merely a side show to ensure the policy of mass migration could go quietly while the ruling classes rubbed their hands together. Alf Garnett was a wonderful propaganda piece by a left wing luvvie who helped the people he probably despised the most get richer. Interesting that your analysis is revealing as to your own biases,though much of it chides others for supposed bias. Johnny Speight was actually the son of an East End docker,no "luvvie". Alf Garnett was no "propaganda piece" (other than when filtered through your own biases);there were loads resembling him in those days in the East End;my granddad for one! As Johnny Speight himself said:�I didn�t invent Alf Garnett, I just grassed him up.� �I get most of the material for Alf standing around in pubs, all I really am is a recorder�. Satire being about as traditional a British value (and virtue) as you can get;what was Shakespeare if not a satirist? RIP Warren.Created one of the great British characters of the post-war era in bringing Johnny Speight's scripts so vividly to life. Edited by legaleagle (16 Nov 2015 11.28pm) It really was. And are you saying you can't be a luvvie if you are the son of a docker ? That's a bit snobbish isn't it. And do you really take everything people claim on face value ? What ever he intended, he betrayed his own bias. And what a total lack of self awareness you must have if you think your own posts don't betray your bias. For the record, my bias is toward arrogant left wing pillocks who think they wrote the book on reason and morality. Especially the ones who are just out of school.
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Hrolf The Ganger

18 Nov 15 6.06pm

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Quote legaleagle at 16 Nov 2015 11.26pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 16 Nov 2015 4.03pm

What Alf Garnett says to me is that Speight was a typically arrogant media lefty who used his writing to enforce his own views. That is so typical of the deluded pseudo intellectual lefty type who fails to recognise the wider and deeper issues and strokes his own ego by belittling the ignorant for their predictable attitudes.

Yes, people were right to be concerned about immigrants for a number of reasons that are now becoming clear. The institutionalised and wide spread public racism that raised it's head in the face of increasing immigration was predictable in a post empire country and the PC reaction that emerged to counter it was merely a side show to ensure the policy of mass migration could go quietly while the ruling classes rubbed their hands together.

Alf Garnett was a wonderful propaganda piece by a left wing luvvie who helped the people he probably despised the most get richer.

Interesting that your analysis is revealing as to your own biases,though much of it chides others for supposed bias.

Johnny Speight was actually the son of an East End docker,no "luvvie". Alf Garnett was no "propaganda piece" (other than when filtered through your own biases);there were loads resembling him in those days in the East End;my granddad for one!

As Johnny Speight himself said:�I didn�t invent Alf Garnett, I just grassed him up.�

�I get most of the material for Alf standing around in pubs, all I really am is a recorder�.

Satire being about as traditional a British value (and virtue) as you can get;what was Shakespeare if not a satirist?

RIP Warren.Created one of the great British characters of the post-war era in bringing Johnny Speight's scripts so vividly to life.

Edited by legaleagle (16 Nov 2015 11.28pm)

It really was. And are you saying you can't be a luvvie if you are the son of a docker ? That's a bit snobbish isn't it.
And do you really take everything people claim on face value ? What ever he intended, he betrayed his own bias.
And what a total lack of self awareness you must have if you think your own posts don't betray your bias.

For the record, my bias is toward arrogant left wing pillocks who think they wrote the book on reason and morality. Especially the ones who are just out of school.

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The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 19 Nov 15 8.08am
Quote Midlands Eagle at 18 Nov 2015 3.59pm Quote The Sash at 18 Nov 2015 12.41pm It looks like I am in a minority of one but I thought both Til Death us Do Part and In Sickness and in Health were f*cking dreadful Judging by your photo you're probably too young to have enjoyed the series when it first came out in the mid sixties. It was original and part of it's appeal was that we all knew an Alf Garnett type much as decades later we had all worked with a David Brent type character. The series did run on for a few too many years and In Sickness and in Health wasn't a patch on the original series. I'm 48 but don't worry I get it because I'm not a dribbling idiot - I know and have known 'Alf Garnett' types (and worse) all my life, Speight created a lightweight obvious cartoon who didn't like darkies, poofs, the left, the dying light of empire etc etc etc etc etc and was your essential prototype UKIP working class, St George flag in the garden type - what he forgot was to make it a comedy. The political observation by Speight is incredibly shallow and boils down to a bloke shouting - still doesn't make the show funny, for me at any rate, and it has just as much artistic merit as Love Thy Neighbour. I thought my picture was of Sid James btw Edited by The Sash (19 Nov 2015 9.18am) As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014
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The Sash

Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 19 Nov 15 8.08am

Quote Midlands Eagle at 18 Nov 2015 3.59pm

Quote The Sash at 18 Nov 2015 12.41pm

It looks like I am in a minority of one but I thought both Til Death us Do Part and In Sickness and in Health were f*cking dreadful

Judging by your photo you're probably too young to have enjoyed the series when it first came out in the mid sixties.

It was original and part of it's appeal was that we all knew an Alf Garnett type much as decades later we had all worked with a David Brent type character.

The series did run on for a few too many years and In Sickness and in Health wasn't a patch on the original series.

I'm 48 but don't worry I get it because I'm not a dribbling idiot - I know and have known 'Alf Garnett' types (and worse) all my life, Speight created a lightweight obvious cartoon who didn't like darkies, poofs, the left, the dying light of empire etc etc etc etc etc and was your essential prototype UKIP working class, St George flag in the garden type - what he forgot was to make it a comedy.

The political observation by Speight is incredibly shallow and boils down to a bloke shouting - still doesn't make the show funny, for me at any rate, and it has just as much artistic merit as Love Thy Neighbour.

I thought my picture was of Sid James btw

Edited by The Sash (19 Nov 2015 9.18am)

As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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