A representation of Islamic UK attitudes 2015

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mcduh 22 Nov 15 5.04pm
How many of your socialist buds are anarchists? What can anyone really do about the 1-2 per zillion people who for any reason, religious, schizophrenic, cultist, sociopathic, etc. etc. are willing to take it upon themselves to bring fire? [Link]
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mcduh

22 Nov 15 5.04pm

How many of your socialist buds are anarchists?

What can anyone really do about the 1-2 per zillion people who for any reason, religious, schizophrenic, cultist, sociopathic, etc. etc. are willing to take it upon themselves to bring fire?

[Link]

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Nov 15 5.07pm
Quote mcduh at 22 Nov 2015 5.04pm How many of your socialist buds are anarchists? What can anyone really do about the 1-2 per zillion people who for any reason, religious, schizophrenic, cultist, sociopathic, etc. etc. are willing to take it upon themselves to bring fire? [Link] For your first question the answer is 0. For your second question the answer would be relatively complicated, however, I will attempt it - shoot them. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Nov 15 5.07pm

Quote mcduh at 22 Nov 2015 5.04pm

How many of your socialist buds are anarchists?

What can anyone really do about the 1-2 per zillion people who for any reason, religious, schizophrenic, cultist, sociopathic, etc. etc. are willing to take it upon themselves to bring fire?

[Link]

For your first question the answer is 0.
For your second question the answer would be relatively complicated, however, I will attempt it - shoot them.

Red and Blue Army!

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serial thriller The Promised Land 22 Nov 15 5.12pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 4.03pm Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 3.51pm That picture link pretty much nails it, mcduh. There's truth in a generalised sense......Hatred of difference. It's more accurate to say that both groups are representative of groups from both religions. Though a terrible and murderous organisation the KKK were far stronger in American generations before the 60s. IS is obviously a modern organisation killing Muslims and what westerners it can get hold of today. Its scope, size and aims make the KKK look pathetic. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2015 4.05pm) I'm not sure that's really true Stirling. I made this point on the other thread as I think it's an interesting parallel but at it's peak the KKK numbered 2.5 million (mid 20s) while IS membership today stands at around 250 000, around a tenth of the size. Aims-wise, although admittedly different, fitting the social and historical contexts of their time, both were extremely conservative in their desires, and both committed violent atrocities on a large scale against both those within their religion and those separate from it. But I think the KKK parallel is interesting for one main reason. Violence against the KKK was never a considered response by the US government, partly because many Democrats were sympathetic to the group, yet with IS, a group who let's remember holds less political sway and is far numerically inferior to the KKK, armed force is seen as reasonable? Why? Surely the only reasonable conclusion is because of the ethnic make up of Southern America, whereas killing brown people is, as it has been for the past 30 years, far more tolerable from our position of Western privilege. I do, however, agree with you that suggesting either IS or the KKK aren't religiously motivated is to dangerously misunderstand the specific ideology that drives them. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 22 Nov 15 5.12pm

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Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 4.03pm

Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 3.51pm

That picture link pretty much nails it, mcduh.

There's truth in a generalised sense......Hatred of difference.

It's more accurate to say that both groups are representative of groups from both religions.

Though a terrible and murderous organisation the KKK were far stronger in American generations before the 60s.
IS is obviously a modern organisation killing Muslims and what westerners it can get hold of today. Its scope, size and aims make the KKK look pathetic.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2015 4.05pm)

I'm not sure that's really true Stirling. I made this point on the other thread as I think it's an interesting parallel but at it's peak the KKK numbered 2.5 million (mid 20s) while IS membership today stands at around 250 000, around a tenth of the size. Aims-wise, although admittedly different, fitting the social and historical contexts of their time, both were extremely conservative in their desires, and both committed violent atrocities on a large scale against both those within their religion and those separate from it.

But I think the KKK parallel is interesting for one main reason. Violence against the KKK was never a considered response by the US government, partly because many Democrats were sympathetic to the group, yet with IS, a group who let's remember holds less political sway and is far numerically inferior to the KKK, armed force is seen as reasonable? Why? Surely the only reasonable conclusion is because of the ethnic make up of Southern America, whereas killing brown people is, as it has been for the past 30 years, far more tolerable from our position of Western privilege.

I do, however, agree with you that suggesting either IS or the KKK aren't religiously motivated is to dangerously misunderstand the specific ideology that drives them.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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mcduh 22 Nov 15 5.19pm
How do you figure out which ones to shoot and at what point? The whole situation is sad and scary and it's always been like this to some degree for some combination of psychological and political and economic and ethnic reasons. I just can't stand ethnically directed paranoia (or worse) and the effects that has on people who look similar to but would never even think of approving of the type of stuff that the paranoid or worse people are afraid will happen in their version of Paris next.
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mcduh

22 Nov 15 5.19pm

How do you figure out which ones to shoot and at what point?

The whole situation is sad and scary and it's always been like this to some degree for some combination of psychological and political and economic and ethnic reasons.

I just can't stand ethnically directed paranoia (or worse) and the effects that has on people who look similar to but would never even think of approving of the type of stuff that the paranoid or worse people are afraid will happen in their version of Paris next.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Nov 15 5.25pm
Quote mcduh at 22 Nov 2015 5.19pm How do you figure out which ones to shoot and at what point? The whole situation is sad and scary and it's always been like this to some degree for some combination of psychological and political and economic and ethnic reasons. I just can't stand ethnically directed paranoia (or worse) and the effects that has on people who look similar to but would never even think of approving of the type of stuff that the paranoid or worse people are afraid will happen in their version of Paris next. I understand your point, but your post stated the people 'who bring fire' - suggesting that they are bringing justice on themselves. However, the death sentence is not an option in the UK. You could just about get them bumped off in the US though. I wouldn't advocate hating muslims and fully understand your point. I have plenty of muslim friends, and have only ever known one who was in any way radical, and he used to drink and smoke so was basically a hypocrite. I have never known any 'radical' ethnically English or C of E people personally but I'm sure they could exist. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Nov 15 5.25pm

Quote mcduh at 22 Nov 2015 5.19pm

How do you figure out which ones to shoot and at what point?

The whole situation is sad and scary and it's always been like this to some degree for some combination of psychological and political and economic and ethnic reasons.

I understand your point, but your post stated the people 'who bring fire' - suggesting that they are bringing justice on themselves. However, the death sentence is not an option in the UK. You could just about get them bumped off in the US though.
I wouldn't advocate hating muslims and fully understand your point. I have plenty of muslim friends, and have only ever known one who was in any way radical, and he used to drink and smoke so was basically a hypocrite. I have never known any 'radical' ethnically English or C of E people personally but I'm sure they could exist.

Red and Blue Army!

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mcduh 22 Nov 15 5.53pm
When I said bring fire, I meant, people who would be willing to bomb civilian targets or shoot civilians.
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mcduh

22 Nov 15 5.53pm

When I said bring fire, I meant, people who would be willing to bomb civilian targets or shoot civilians.

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mcduh 22 Nov 15 6.03pm
Quote ASCPFC at 22 Nov 2015 5.25pm However, the death sentence is not an option in the UK. You could just about get them bumped off in the US though. And also, it's important to note that the death penalty in the US is nowhere near a universal option. One state condones it, another has prohibited it as "cruel and unusual punishment," and if you click the first link below, you'll see that the federal government doesn't really employ it. Timothy McVeigh, the bonkers white guy who bombed the Federal building in Oklahoma City was executed via the Federal Government: [Link] On the other hand, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who is believed to have been the "principal architecht" of the 9/11 attack, [Link] is still in detention in Guantanamo.
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mcduh

22 Nov 15 6.03pm

Quote ASCPFC at 22 Nov 2015 5.25pm

However, the death sentence is not an option in the UK. You could just about get them bumped off in the US though.

And also, it's important to note that the death penalty in the US is nowhere near a universal option. One state condones it, another has prohibited it as "cruel and unusual punishment," and if you click the first link below, you'll see that the federal government doesn't really employ it.

Timothy McVeigh, the bonkers white guy who bombed the Federal building in Oklahoma City was executed via the Federal Government: [Link]

On the other hand, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who is believed to have been the "principal architecht" of the 9/11 attack, [Link] is still in detention in Guantanamo.

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 15 6.18pm
Quote serial thriller at 22 Nov 2015 5.12pm I'm not sure that's really true Stirling. I made this point on the other thread as I think it's an interesting parallel but at it's peak the KKK numbered 2.5 million (mid 20s) while IS membership today stands at around 250 000, around a tenth of the size. Aims-wise, although admittedly different, fitting the social and historical contexts of their time, both were extremely conservative in their desires, and both committed violent atrocities on a large scale against both those within their religion and those separate from it. But I think the KKK parallel is interesting for one main reason. Violence against the KKK was never a considered response by the US government, partly because many Democrats were sympathetic to the group, yet with IS, a group who let's remember holds less political sway and is far numerically inferior to the KKK, armed force is seen as reasonable? Why? Surely the only reasonable conclusion is because of the ethnic make up of Southern America, whereas killing brown people is, as it has been for the past 30 years, far more tolerable from our position of Western privilege. I do, however, agree with you that suggesting either IS or the KKK aren't religiously motivated is to dangerously misunderstand the specific ideology that drives them. The peak for the KKK was a very long time ago in an era that shares few social norms with today. Modern figures for the Klan that I see estimate that there are 5,000 and 8,000 Klan members operating across the US. I've no doubt that similar versions aboard exist but they aren't going to take orders from a central leadership like IS do. The numbers for IS are interesting.....You are probably in the right ballpark. In my view,'hate' comparisons are there but it's really apples and oranges when you look under the hood. Apparently parts of the modern clan have opened up to other racial groups (which is kind of confusing) and have rebranded themselves as 'civil right defenders for the white race'. I don't know how truthful that is but there you go. However I think I agree with most of your post whilst lowering the modern charge of western privilege (though obviously like bias it exists and was far stronger in the past). The media highlight black deaths by white cops for example but you hear very little when the opposite scenario happens. The media sell to people's prejudges because that's what attracts attention and hence money. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 15 6.18pm

Quote serial thriller at 22 Nov 2015 5.12pm

I do, however, agree with you that suggesting either IS or the KKK aren't religiously motivated is to dangerously misunderstand the specific ideology that drives them.

The peak for the KKK was a very long time ago in an era that shares few social norms with today. Modern figures for the Klan that I see estimate that there are 5,000 and 8,000 Klan members operating across the US. I've no doubt that similar versions aboard exist but they aren't going to take orders from a central leadership like IS do. The numbers for IS are interesting.....You are probably in the right ballpark.

In my view,'hate' comparisons are there but it's really apples and oranges when you look under the hood.

Apparently parts of the modern clan have opened up to other racial groups (which is kind of confusing) and have rebranded themselves as 'civil right defenders for the white race'.

I don't know how truthful that is but there you go.

However I think I agree with most of your post whilst lowering the modern charge of western privilege (though obviously like bias it exists and was far stronger in the past).

The media highlight black deaths by white cops for example but you hear very little when the opposite scenario happens.

The media sell to people's prejudges because that's what attracts attention and hence money.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 22 Nov 15 6.41pm
A representation of Islamic UK attitudes 2015 A pointless thread tbh. Time to move forward together.
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-TUX-

Alphabettispaghetti 22 Nov 15 6.41pm

A representation of Islamic UK attitudes 2015

A pointless thread tbh.

Time to move forward together.

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Nov 15 6.54pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.37pm BBC Radio 4 Today Muslim Poll More than two in five (46%) feel that being a Muslim in Britain is difficult due to prejudice against Islam. Almost all Muslims living in Britain feel a loyalty to the country (95%). Just 6% say they feel a disloyalty. Nine in ten (93%) British Muslims believe that Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws. One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris. However, two thirds (68%) say acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet can never be justified while a quarter (24%) disagree. Muslim women are more likely than men to feel unsafe in Britain. One in nine (11%) British Muslims feel sympathetic towards people who want to fight against western interests while 85% do not. Half (49%) believe Muslim clerics preaching that violence against the west can be justified are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinion, while 45% disagree. I'm more comfortable now that we have a more current and easily accessible poll of British Islamic attitudes than the old 7/7 statistics. What do people think from these stats? I believe that they are about as likely to be accurate as a how big is you p**** survey.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Nov 15 6.54pm

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Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.37pm

BBC Radio 4 Today Muslim Poll

More than two in five (46%) feel that being a Muslim in Britain is difficult due to prejudice against Islam.
Almost all Muslims living in Britain feel a loyalty to the country (95%). Just 6% say they feel a disloyalty.
Nine in ten (93%) British Muslims believe that Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws.
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
However, two thirds (68%) say acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet can never be justified while a quarter (24%) disagree.
Muslim women are more likely than men to feel unsafe in Britain.
One in nine (11%) British Muslims feel sympathetic towards people who want to fight against western interests while 85% do not.
Half (49%) believe Muslim clerics preaching that violence against the west can be justified are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinion, while 45% disagree.

I'm more comfortable now that we have a more current and easily accessible poll of British Islamic attitudes than the old 7/7 statistics.

What do people think from these stats?

I believe that they are about as likely to be accurate as a how big is you p**** survey.

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 15 6.56pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 6.54pm I believe that they are about as likely to be accurate as a how big is you p**** survey. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 15 6.56pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 6.54pm

I believe that they are about as likely to be accurate as a how big is you p**** survey.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 22 Nov 15 7.03pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 6.56pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 6.54pm I believe that they are about as likely to be accurate as a how big is you p**** survey. Seconded Time to move forward together.
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-TUX-

Alphabettispaghetti 22 Nov 15 7.03pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 6.56pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 6.54pm

I believe that they are about as likely to be accurate as a how big is you p**** survey.

Seconded

Time to move forward together.

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