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Is Bert the Head right about media and politics?

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 28 Nov 15 11.49am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 11.15am

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 10.54am

Apologies in advance for rambling...

Good to see the usual suspects engaging in the usual irrelevant "left" bashing.

Bert has a point and makes some sense if readers can see beyond their own knee jerk prejudices,as does Hoof.



My only concern with Bert is his refusal to accept that any of us are capable of evaluating messages and filtering out the spin.

You've made a good case for the unfair nature of Corbyn's reporting, but you have not mentioned the totally unfair nature of the bombardment that Nigel Farage has taken from the media!

Not only that, he has had to put up with being shouted down whilst campaigning by left wing activists and even had a quiet family Sunday lunch in a pub invaded by scumbags that cannot campaign peaceably or in a socially acceptable fashion.

I don't remember you or anyone else making an impassioned plea on Nigel Farage's behalf?

Just accept, that any message imparted into the arena will have some sort of spin on it, and if you want to get nearer to the truth, read a few different sources and make your own mind up as to who is most likely to be the most honest.

What percentage of the population read / watch / listen to a wide range of information sources for balance? I doubt it's very high.

Look at the important debate on immigration. The way it's reported by sections of the media is done so in an inflammatory way to raise heckles thus fuelling unnecessary repercussions. A massive increase in islamophobic attacks on ordinary law abiding people is one example.

The issue about bombing Syria is a very important one. So why is the focus on division in political parties rather than the pros and cons of launching airstrikes?

 

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legaleagle Flag 28 Nov 15 12.07pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 11.15am

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 10.54am

Apologies in advance for rambling...

Good to see the usual suspects engaging in the usual irrelevant "left" bashing.

Bert has a point and makes some sense if readers can see beyond their own knee jerk prejudices,as does Hoof.



My only concern with Bert is his refusal to accept that any of us are capable of evaluating messages and filtering out the spin.

You've made a good case for the unfair nature of Corbyn's reporting, but you have not mentioned the totally unfair nature of the bombardment that Nigel Farage has taken from the media!

Not only that, he has had to put up with being shouted down whilst campaigning by left wing activists and even had a quiet family Sunday lunch in a pub invaded by scumbags that cannot campaign peaceably or in a socially acceptable fashion.

I don't remember you or anyone else making an impassioned plea on Nigel Farage's behalf?

Just accept, that any message imparted into the arena will have some sort of spin on it, and if you want to get nearer to the truth, read a few different sources and make your own mind up as to who is most likely to be the most honest.

If you feel Farage has been unfairly "targeted" by the press,that would seem to me to be a reason for supporting the general thrust of my argument...

It is,however, worth bearing in mind when you write of Farage's unfair( in your view) treatment,that that is in a context of constant spin in full support of his prime chose policy stance in the last 12 months,immigration...where you might be hard pressed to argue the press has (in general) done other than accord with the general spin Farage puts on immigration-related issues...

Contrast with Corbyn,where personality and policies arguably both are generally now subject to a constant "negative spin"...

 

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 28 Nov 15 12.09pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 28 Nov 2015 11.49am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 11.15am

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 10.54am

Apologies in advance for rambling...

Good to see the usual suspects engaging in the usual irrelevant "left" bashing.

Bert has a point and makes some sense if readers can see beyond their own knee jerk prejudices,as does Hoof.



My only concern with Bert is his refusal to accept that any of us are capable of evaluating messages and filtering out the spin.

You've made a good case for the unfair nature of Corbyn's reporting, but you have not mentioned the totally unfair nature of the bombardment that Nigel Farage has taken from the media!

Not only that, he has had to put up with being shouted down whilst campaigning by left wing activists and even had a quiet family Sunday lunch in a pub invaded by scumbags that cannot campaign peaceably or in a socially acceptable fashion.

I don't remember you or anyone else making an impassioned plea on Nigel Farage's behalf?

Just accept, that any message imparted into the arena will have some sort of spin on it, and if you want to get nearer to the truth, read a few different sources and make your own mind up as to who is most likely to be the most honest.

What percentage of the population read / watch / listen to a wide range of information sources for balance? I doubt it's very high.

Look at the important debate on immigration. The way it's reported by sections of the media is done so in an inflammatory way to raise heckles thus fuelling unnecessary repercussions. A massive increase in islamophobic attacks on ordinary law abiding people is one example.

The issue about bombing Syria is a very important one. So why is the focus on division in political parties rather than the pros and cons of launching airstrikes?

The thing is Nick you are taking the approach that you and your beliefs are right. We all do, so anyone who disagrees is naïve, stupid, illinformed etc

When was the last time anyone actually changed their mind after reading anything in General Talk? Their views may softened slightly if you're lucky.

As for Corbyn, he is an unmitigated disaster but I think most people have quickly seen through the not so hidden agenda of much of the press. His problem is he seems unable to anticipate the s*** storm that follows after stunts like Mao's book

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Nov 15 12.13pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

He'll be gone soon don't worry about it.

 

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legaleagle Flag 28 Nov 15 12.39pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 28 Nov 2015 12.09pm

The thing is Nick you are taking the approach that you and your beliefs are right. We all do, so anyone who disagrees is naïve, stupid, illinformed etc

When was the last time anyone actually changed their mind after reading anything in General Talk? Their views may softened slightly if you're lucky.

As for Corbyn, he is an unmitigated disaster but I think most people have quickly seen through the not so hidden agenda of much of the press. His problem is he seems unable to anticipate the s*** storm that follows after stunts like Mao's book

....................................................
Yes,the travails of the honest and non venal and genuine and uncorrupted by lust for power politician when up against "politics as we know it" and the "search for the banal, slagging and scare mongering rather than shining a light and exposing iniquity" that is at the heart of so much modern day media political copverage.

So,yes oh so predictable and,whether you admire Corbyn or think him a wally, also such a sad indictment of the way we normally do things politically and in the press,and of those calling for/wishing for "lets get back to normal".For some, that might be the real "unmitigated disaster".

Anyway,not to worry,we'll soon be back to the usual bunch of "w*n*ers of all political hues dominating political discourse...and those who slag Corbyn on here constantly can rest happy again,seemingly unaware that in some ways it might be said the joke's ultimately on them.

Edited by legaleagle (28 Nov 2015 12.43pm)

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 28 Nov 15 1.07pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 12.39pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 28 Nov 2015 12.09pm

The thing is Nick you are taking the approach that you and your beliefs are right. We all do, so anyone who disagrees is naïve, stupid, illinformed etc

When was the last time anyone actually changed their mind after reading anything in General Talk? Their views may softened slightly if you're lucky.

As for Corbyn, he is an unmitigated disaster but I think most people have quickly seen through the not so hidden agenda of much of the press. His problem is he seems unable to anticipate the s*** storm that follows after stunts like Mao's book

....................................................
Yes,the travails of the honest and non venal and genuine and uncorrupted by lust for power politician when up against "politics as we know it" and the "search for the banal, slagging and scare mongering rather than shining a light and exposing iniquity" that is at the heart of so much modern day media political copverage.

So,yes oh so predictable and,whether you admire Corbyn or think him a wally, also such a sad indictment of the way we normally do things politically and in the press,and of those calling for/wishing for "lets get back to normal".For some, that might be the real "unmitigated disaster".

Anyway,not to worry,we'll soon be back to the usual bunch of "w*n*ers of all political hues dominating political discourse...and those who slag Corbyn on here constantly can rest happy again,seemingly unaware that in some ways it might be said the joke's ultimately on them.

Edited by legaleagle (28 Nov 2015 12.43pm)


Firstly, I don't believe that Corbyn 'does not have a lust for power'. He is leader of the opposition and this would inherently demonstrate a wish for power.

Secondly, Corbyn has lost a lot of people because of the Paris attacks. Ordinary people now have a feeling that he is not strong on security and cannot be trusted in defending them, their families or the country. I personally view his opinions on the subject as ideologically driven rather than driven by real politik and therein lies he problem for Corbyn. I am right wing, would never vote for the c*** despite my hostility to 'Call me Dave' but I will vote Tory as long as Corbyn is in charge of the opposition because fear of him and his troop of clowns getting power scares the f*** out of me.

This is a fully formed opinion derived from him and his teams actions and ideology. Nothing to do with the media.

I also dislike the left's high and mighty attitude towards right wing voters. The 'we know best' attitude alienates voters and whilst I do sympathise with the left on some issues, such as fair pay, justice, free speech, etc., the dogmatic nature of the left completely puts me off from even considering them as credible.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 28 Nov 15 1.25pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 28 Nov 2015 1.07pm

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 12.39pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 28 Nov 2015 12.09pm

The thing is Nick you are taking the approach that you and your beliefs are right. We all do, so anyone who disagrees is naïve, stupid, illinformed etc

When was the last time anyone actually changed their mind after reading anything in General Talk? Their views may softened slightly if you're lucky.

As for Corbyn, he is an unmitigated disaster but I think most people have quickly seen through the not so hidden agenda of much of the press. His problem is he seems unable to anticipate the s*** storm that follows after stunts like Mao's book

....................................................
Yes,the travails of the honest and non venal and genuine and uncorrupted by lust for power politician when up against "politics as we know it" and the "search for the banal, slagging and scare mongering rather than shining a light and exposing iniquity" that is at the heart of so much modern day media political copverage.

So,yes oh so predictable and,whether you admire Corbyn or think him a wally, also such a sad indictment of the way we normally do things politically and in the press,and of those calling for/wishing for "lets get back to normal".For some, that might be the real "unmitigated disaster".

Anyway,not to worry,we'll soon be back to the usual bunch of "w*n*ers of all political hues dominating political discourse...and those who slag Corbyn on here constantly can rest happy again,seemingly unaware that in some ways it might be said the joke's ultimately on them.

Edited by legaleagle (28 Nov 2015 12.43pm)


Firstly, I don't believe that Corbyn 'does not have a lust for power'. He is leader of the opposition and this would inherently demonstrate a wish for power.

Secondly, Corbyn has lost a lot of people because of the Paris attacks. Ordinary people now have a feeling that he is not strong on security and cannot be trusted in defending them, their families or the country. I personally view his opinions on the subject as ideologically driven rather than driven by real politik and therein lies he problem for Corbyn. I am right wing, would never vote for the c*** despite my hostility to 'Call me Dave' but I will vote Tory as long as Corbyn is in charge of the opposition because fear of him and his troop of clowns getting power scares the f*** out of me.

This is a fully formed opinion derived from him and his teams actions and ideology. Nothing to do with the media.

I also dislike the left's high and mighty attitude towards right wing voters.
The 'we know best' attitude alienates voters and whilst I do sympathise with the left on some issues, such as fair pay, justice, free speech, etc., the dogmatic nature of the left completely puts me off from even considering them as credible.


Towards any voter. The message post election was that the electorate didn't understand the issues. Much like many of posts on here, "you disagree with me so you obviously don't understand".

That brings us back to Nick's original question, yes Bert was right about the media, he was wrong to take try and take the moral high ground assuming that anyone who disagrees with him gets their opinion from last nights chip paper.

Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (28 Nov 2015 1.32pm)

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 28 Nov 15 1.30pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 12.39pm

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 28 Nov 2015 12.09pm

The thing is Nick you are taking the approach that you and your beliefs are right. We all do, so anyone who disagrees is naïve, stupid, illinformed etc

When was the last time anyone actually changed their mind after reading anything in General Talk? Their views may softened slightly if you're lucky.

As for Corbyn, he is an unmitigated disaster but I think most people have quickly seen through the not so hidden agenda of much of the press. His problem is he seems unable to anticipate the s*** storm that follows after stunts like Mao's book

....................................................
Yes,the travails of the honest and non venal and genuine and uncorrupted by lust for power politician when up against "politics as we know it" and the "search for the banal, slagging and scare mongering rather than shining a light and exposing iniquity" that is at the heart of so much modern day media political copverage.

So,yes oh so predictable and,whether you admire Corbyn or think him a wally, also such a sad indictment of the way we normally do things politically and in the press,and of those calling for/wishing for "lets get back to normal".For some, that might be the real "unmitigated disaster".

Anyway,not to worry,we'll soon be back to the usual bunch of "w*n*ers of all political hues dominating political discourse...and those who slag Corbyn on here constantly can rest happy again,seemingly unaware that in some ways it might be said the joke's ultimately on them.

Edited by legaleagle (28 Nov 2015 12.43pm)


I certainly don't admire Corbyn but anyone who thinks he is a wally is a fool.

People like Corbyn & Dennis Skinner I have a lot of time for, I disagree with their politics but they fight for what they believe in, old fashioned conviction politics. Politicians like that snake Andy Burnham is why politicians do have a bad name.

That is Corbyn's Achilles heel though, you can't be leader of a party that has a broad church of opinions without compromising, not unless you are in power with a big majority. His problem being the PLP. It's one of the main reasons why, irrespective of beliefs, he is the wrong man for the job.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Hoof Hearted 28 Nov 15 1.33pm

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 12.07pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 11.15am

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 10.54am

Apologies in advance for rambling...

Good to see the usual suspects engaging in the usual irrelevant "left" bashing.

Bert has a point and makes some sense if readers can see beyond their own knee jerk prejudices,as does Hoof.



My only concern with Bert is his refusal to accept that any of us are capable of evaluating messages and filtering out the spin.

You've made a good case for the unfair nature of Corbyn's reporting, but you have not mentioned the totally unfair nature of the bombardment that Nigel Farage has taken from the media!

Not only that, he has had to put up with being shouted down whilst campaigning by left wing activists and even had a quiet family Sunday lunch in a pub invaded by scumbags that cannot campaign peaceably or in a socially acceptable fashion.

I don't remember you or anyone else making an impassioned plea on Nigel Farage's behalf?

Just accept, that any message imparted into the arena will have some sort of spin on it, and if you want to get nearer to the truth, read a few different sources and make your own mind up as to who is most likely to be the most honest.

If you feel Farage has been unfairly "targeted" by the press,that would seem to me to be a reason for supporting the general thrust of my argument...

It is,however, worth bearing in mind when you write of Farage's unfair( in your view) treatment,that that is in a context of constant spin in full support of his prime chose policy stance in the last 12 months,immigration...where you might be hard pressed to argue the press has (in general) done other than accord with the general spin Farage puts on immigration-related issues...

Contrast with Corbyn,where personality and policies arguably both are generally now subject to a constant "negative spin"...


I'm reading that post as it's okay for the media to bombard Farage because he's wrong about stuff, but not fair to bombard Corbyn because he's a right on sort of guy trying to help the people (in your opinion).

You either accept there is negative spin or you don't.

You can't say it isn't allowable for certain individuals that in your opinion don't deserve it.

If I'm reading the meaning wrong, please correct me, but that's how it appears.

 

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legaleagle Flag 28 Nov 15 1.49pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 1.33pm

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 12.07pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 11.15am

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 10.54am

Apologies in advance for rambling...

Good to see the usual suspects engaging in the usual irrelevant "left" bashing.

Bert has a point and makes some sense if readers can see beyond their own knee jerk prejudices,as does Hoof.



My only concern with Bert is his refusal to accept that any of us are capable of evaluating messages and filtering out the spin.

You've made a good case for the unfair nature of Corbyn's reporting, but you have not mentioned the totally unfair nature of the bombardment that Nigel Farage has taken from the media!

Not only that, he has had to put up with being shouted down whilst campaigning by left wing activists and even had a quiet family Sunday lunch in a pub invaded by scumbags that cannot campaign peaceably or in a socially acceptable fashion.

I don't remember you or anyone else making an impassioned plea on Nigel Farage's behalf?

Just accept, that any message imparted into the arena will have some sort of spin on it, and if you want to get nearer to the truth, read a few different sources and make your own mind up as to who is most likely to be the most honest.

If you feel Farage has been unfairly "targeted" by the press,that would seem to me to be a reason for supporting the general thrust of my argument...

It is,however, worth bearing in mind when you write of Farage's unfair( in your view) treatment,that that is in a context of constant spin in full support of his prime chose policy stance in the last 12 months,immigration...where you might be hard pressed to argue the press has (in general) done other than accord with the general spin Farage puts on immigration-related issues...

Contrast with Corbyn,where personality and policies arguably both are generally now subject to a constant "negative spin"...


I'm reading that post as it's okay for the media to bombard Farage because he's wrong about stuff, but not fair to bombard Corbyn because he's a right on sort of guy trying to help the people (in your opinion).

You either accept there is negative spin or you don't.

You can't say it isn't allowable for certain individuals that in your opinion don't deserve it.

If I'm reading the meaning wrong, please correct me, but that's how it appears.


In fact,I was saying the opposite of what you appear to have understood me to say.How you should read it Hoof is that inappropriate negative spin is not a virtue whomever is the recipient.You should also read it as a reminder (following the logic of your own valid point) that those who,for example, might object to what they see as the demonisation of Farage but happily go along with the arguably much greater demonisation of Corbyn would be completely missing the point and showing themselves to be as biased as those they criticise for bias...

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 28 Nov 15 2.20pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 28 Nov 2015 11.49am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 11.15am

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 10.54am

Apologies in advance for rambling...

Good to see the usual suspects engaging in the usual irrelevant "left" bashing.

Bert has a point and makes some sense if readers can see beyond their own knee jerk prejudices,as does Hoof.



My only concern with Bert is his refusal to accept that any of us are capable of evaluating messages and filtering out the spin.

You've made a good case for the unfair nature of Corbyn's reporting, but you have not mentioned the totally unfair nature of the bombardment that Nigel Farage has taken from the media!

Not only that, he has had to put up with being shouted down whilst campaigning by left wing activists and even had a quiet family Sunday lunch in a pub invaded by scumbags that cannot campaign peaceably or in a socially acceptable fashion.

I don't remember you or anyone else making an impassioned plea on Nigel Farage's behalf?

Just accept, that any message imparted into the arena will have some sort of spin on it, and if you want to get nearer to the truth, read a few different sources and make your own mind up as to who is most likely to be the most honest.

What percentage of the population read / watch / listen to a wide range of information sources for balance? I doubt it's very high.

Look at the important debate on immigration. The way it's reported by sections of the media is done so in an inflammatory way to raise heckles thus fuelling unnecessary repercussions. A massive increase in islamophobic attacks on ordinary law abiding people is one example.

The issue about bombing Syria is a very important one. So why is the focus on division in political parties rather than the pros and cons of launching airstrikes?

An how many inflammatory stories on Jihadist websites are contributing to kids going to Syria or strapping explosive vests to themselves?

I don't see you condemning those yet Murdoch, in your view, is the root of all ills in the World.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 28 Nov 15 6.23pm

Quote matt_himself at 28 Nov 2015 2.20pm

Quote nickgusset at 28 Nov 2015 11.49am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 11.15am

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 10.54am

Apologies in advance for rambling...

Good to see the usual suspects engaging in the usual irrelevant "left" bashing.

Bert has a point and makes some sense if readers can see beyond their own knee jerk prejudices,as does Hoof.



My only concern with Bert is his refusal to accept that any of us are capable of evaluating messages and filtering out the spin.

You've made a good case for the unfair nature of Corbyn's reporting, but you have not mentioned the totally unfair nature of the bombardment that Nigel Farage has taken from the media!

Not only that, he has had to put up with being shouted down whilst campaigning by left wing activists and even had a quiet family Sunday lunch in a pub invaded by scumbags that cannot campaign peaceably or in a socially acceptable fashion.

I don't remember you or anyone else making an impassioned plea on Nigel Farage's behalf?

Just accept, that any message imparted into the arena will have some sort of spin on it, and if you want to get nearer to the truth, read a few different sources and make your own mind up as to who is most likely to be the most honest.

What percentage of the population read / watch / listen to a wide range of information sources for balance? I doubt it's very high.

Look at the important debate on immigration. The way it's reported by sections of the media is done so in an inflammatory way to raise heckles thus fuelling unnecessary repercussions. A massive increase in islamophobic attacks on ordinary law abiding people is one example.

The issue about bombing Syria is a very important one. So why is the focus on division in political parties rather than the pros and cons of launching airstrikes?

An how many inflammatory stories on Jihadist websites are contributing to kids going to Syria or strapping explosive vests to themselves?

I don't see you condemning those yet Murdoch, in your view, is the root of all ills in the World.

I'll respond to you this once...

s***e argument to mention a non condemnation of jihadist 'recruiting' websites, talk about curveball! Of course I am against them.

A trite response would be, 'I haven't seen you condemn the christian fella who shot and killed 3 people in cold blood simply because they were in an abortion clinic.' What does this imply about your style of arguing??
I believe it would be in more of the public interest if sections of the mass media didn't print such anti islamic bile. Perhaps less would seek out jihadist websites if they weren't made to feel so alienated in their country of birth.

 

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