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jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Feb 16 3.56pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted What street cleaners are these Jamie? They don't come round here... if I want tins, bottles, crisp packets picked up I do it myself. Councils keep making cuts to so called front line services - they only empty my dustbin every 2 weeks now! Why not "employ" the unemployed to tidy our streets? What else are they doing? We have some, admittedly not as many as we used to have, largely thanks to people on community service doing jobs that the council used to pay people to do. Similarly, you see the same thing with charities - jobs that used to involve employing people in local function, being replaced by volunteers. If we actually employed the people currently in these kinds of jobs to direct this initiative, I think it might be viable. Problem is, as soon as you 'introduce free workers' the local authorities use that rather than pay someone to do the job. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Feb 16 3.56pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

What street cleaners are these Jamie?

They don't come round here... if I want tins, bottles, crisp packets picked up I do it myself.

Councils keep making cuts to so called front line services - they only empty my dustbin every 2 weeks now!

Why not "employ" the unemployed to tidy our streets?

What else are they doing?

We have some, admittedly not as many as we used to have, largely thanks to people on community service doing jobs that the council used to pay people to do. Similarly, you see the same thing with charities - jobs that used to involve employing people in local function, being replaced by volunteers.

If we actually employed the people currently in these kinds of jobs to direct this initiative, I think it might be viable.

Problem is, as soon as you 'introduce free workers' the local authorities use that rather than pay someone to do the job.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Feb 16 4.05pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted more psycho babble Just get them off their arses and doing stuff rather than making it easy to drop out and still lead a cushy life. So except for it putting people out of work, costing more, creating a black market, requiring a complex bureaucracy to implement, being utterly inflexible and massively open to abuse. I'd agree if there was a surplus of jobs, that paid a reasonable wage, rather than the actual situation where jobs actually are less viable than being unemployed - Which is not because unemployment pays well, but because employment doesn't even reach the actual cost of living. No one on benefits lives what I would call a cushy life - A subsistence existence at best. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Feb 16 4.05pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

more psycho babble

Just get them off their arses and doing stuff rather than making it easy to drop out and still lead a cushy life.

So except for it putting people out of work, costing more, creating a black market, requiring a complex bureaucracy to implement, being utterly inflexible and massively open to abuse.

I'd agree if there was a surplus of jobs, that paid a reasonable wage, rather than the actual situation where jobs actually are less viable than being unemployed - Which is not because unemployment pays well, but because employment doesn't even reach the actual cost of living.

No one on benefits lives what I would call a cushy life - A subsistence existence at best.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Feb 16 9.35pm
[Link] The following account was posted in the comments section of the Guardian website: I personally know a fifty-six year old man who worked at Tesco for 40 hrs a week for 6 weeks for no pay. He said he was given the worst job, constantly filling freezers in the hope he would be taken on. After the 6 weeks were up the manager asked him if he would like to stay on for some extra weeks, my friend asked “with pay”? The manager said why would he pay him when he can pick the phone up and get more unemployed people who have to work for nothing of face sanctions meaning loss of ALL benefits for up to three years! My friend wasn’t alone, he was part of twelve extra staff taken on to cover the xmas rush, no one was given a job at the end of the xmas period. He told me they had all worked really hard and were gutted they were abused in such a way. The worst was one day he had to throw out lots of food one day over the use by date. He asked the manager if he could take some home as he was having to eat more due to being active all day. The manager refused saying if he gave him free food he wouldn’t come through the front door and buy it! Also see [Link]
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Feb 16 9.35pm

[Link]

The following account was posted in the comments section of the Guardian website:
I personally know a fifty-six year old man who worked at Tesco for 40 hrs a week for 6 weeks for no pay. He said he was given the worst job, constantly filling freezers in the hope he would be taken on. After the 6 weeks were up the manager asked him if he would like to stay on for some extra weeks, my friend asked “with pay”? The manager said why would he pay him when he can pick the phone up and get more unemployed people who have to work for nothing of face sanctions meaning loss of ALL benefits for up to three years!

My friend wasn’t alone, he was part of twelve extra staff taken on to cover the xmas rush, no one was given a job at the end of the xmas period.

He told me they had all worked really hard and were gutted they were abused in such a way. The worst was one day he had to throw out lots of food one day over the use by date. He asked the manager if he could take some home as he was having to eat more due to being active all day. The manager refused saying if he gave him free food he wouldn’t come through the front door and buy it!

Also see [Link]

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chris123 hove actually 22 Feb 16 10.40pm
Originally posted by nickgusset [Link] The following account was posted in the comments section of the Guardian website: I personally know a fifty-six year old man who worked at Tesco for 40 hrs a week for 6 weeks for no pay. He said he was given the worst job, constantly filling freezers in the hope he would be taken on. After the 6 weeks were up the manager asked him if he would like to stay on for some extra weeks, my friend asked “with pay”? The manager said why would he pay him when he can pick the phone up and get more unemployed people who have to work for nothing of face sanctions meaning loss of ALL benefits for up to three years! My friend wasn’t alone, he was part of twelve extra staff taken on to cover the xmas rush, no one was given a job at the end of the xmas period. He told me they had all worked really hard and were gutted they were abused in such a way. The worst was one day he had to throw out lots of food one day over the use by date. He asked the manager if he could take some home as he was having to eat more due to being active all day. The manager refused saying if he gave him free food he wouldn’t come through the front door and buy it! Also see [Link] This relates to having to work in order to retain benefits I assume?
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chris123

hove actually 22 Feb 16 10.40pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

[Link]

My friend wasn’t alone, he was part of twelve extra staff taken on to cover the xmas rush, no one was given a job at the end of the xmas period.

Also see [Link]

This relates to having to work in order to retain benefits I assume?

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Feb 16 10.50pm
Originally posted by chris123 This relates to having to work in order to retain benefits I assume? Yes, under IDS's workfare scheme.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Feb 16 10.50pm

Originally posted by chris123

This relates to having to work in order to retain benefits I assume?

Yes, under IDS's workfare scheme.

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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 10.53pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 So except for it putting people out of work, costing more, creating a black market, requiring a complex bureaucracy to implement, being utterly inflexible and massively open to abuse. I'd agree if there was a surplus of jobs, that paid a reasonable wage, rather than the actual situation where jobs actually are less viable than being unemployed - Which is not because unemployment pays well, but because employment doesn't even reach the actual cost of living. No one on benefits lives what I would call a cushy life - A subsistence existence at best. There are plenty in this neck of the woods jamie. Get their dole money, go to food banks and buy/sell "acquired items" on eBay. They have the latest iPhones, Smart TV's and drink premium lager at our local pub and get takeaway on the way home. I'd like a "subsistence existence" too please! With regard to the rest of your post you're just creating barriers - implementing a food voucher system rather than giving them cash is not Rocket Salad!
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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 10.53pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

So except for it putting people out of work, costing more, creating a black market, requiring a complex bureaucracy to implement, being utterly inflexible and massively open to abuse.

No one on benefits lives what I would call a cushy life - A subsistence existence at best.

There are plenty in this neck of the woods jamie.

Get their dole money, go to food banks and buy/sell "acquired items" on eBay.

They have the latest iPhones, Smart TV's and drink premium lager at our local pub and get takeaway on the way home.

I'd like a "subsistence existence" too please!

With regard to the rest of your post you're just creating barriers - implementing a food voucher system rather than giving them cash is not Rocket Salad!

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chris123 hove actually 22 Feb 16 11.03pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Yes, under IDS's workfare scheme. So it's better to work for benefits than not work surely?
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chris123

hove actually 22 Feb 16 11.03pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Yes, under IDS's workfare scheme.

So it's better to work for benefits than not work surely?

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Feb 16 11.07pm
Originally posted by chris123 So it's better to work for benefits than not work surely? It's better to work for a wage! It's better not to give tesco's or such like an excuse to pay no wages rather than pay someone an hourly rate for working. Or do you think that allowing companies to get 'free' workers is ok? Edited by nickgusset (22 Feb 2016 11.08pm)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Feb 16 11.07pm

Originally posted by chris123

So it's better to work for benefits than not work surely?

It's better to work for a wage!
It's better not to give tesco's or such like an excuse to pay no wages rather than pay someone an hourly rate for working.
Or do you think that allowing companies to get 'free' workers is ok?

Edited by nickgusset (22 Feb 2016 11.08pm)

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chris123 hove actually 22 Feb 16 11.22pm
Originally posted by nickgusset It's better to work for a wage! It's better not to give tesco's or such like an excuse to pay no wages rather than pay someone an hourly rate for working. Or do you think that allowing companies to get 'free' workers is ok? Edited by nickgusset (22 Feb 2016 11.08pm) I'm sure like most things it's not perfect, but in principle I am in favour of job seekers working for their benefits.
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chris123

hove actually 22 Feb 16 11.22pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Edited by nickgusset (22 Feb 2016 11.08pm)

I'm sure like most things it's not perfect, but in principle I am in favour of job seekers working for their benefits.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 12.44am
Originally posted by chris123 I'm sure like most things it's not perfect, but in principle I am in favour of job seekers working for their benefits. How about working for a wage rather than working for peanuts?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 12.44am

Originally posted by chris123

I'm sure like most things it's not perfect, but in principle I am in favour of job seekers working for their benefits.

How about working for a wage rather than working for peanuts?

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chris123 hove actually 23 Feb 16 7.47am
Originally posted by nickgusset How about working for a wage rather than working for peanuts? Well if it includes, JSA, housing benefit and council tax - it's not peanuts. My criticism would be if the training was not properly designed to help people back to work.
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chris123

hove actually 23 Feb 16 7.47am

Originally posted by nickgusset

How about working for a wage rather than working for peanuts?

Well if it includes, JSA, housing benefit and council tax - it's not peanuts. My criticism would be if the training was not properly designed to help people back to work.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 8.17am
Originally posted by chris123 Well if it includes, JSA, housing benefit and council tax - it's not peanuts. My criticism would be if the training was not properly designed to help people back to work. I've not seen anything that says it does. It's used as cheap labour.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 8.17am

Originally posted by chris123

Well if it includes, JSA, housing benefit and council tax - it's not peanuts. My criticism would be if the training was not properly designed to help people back to work.

I've not seen anything that says it does. It's used as cheap labour.

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