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View fed up eagle's Profile fed up eagle Flag Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 15 May 16 12.12pm Send a Private Message to fed up eagle Add fed up eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Jimenez

Pfizer are a USA Company !!

Yes but the American government was also using European drugs companies too due to a shortage. They have pulled out of supplying these drugs, this has caused a domino effect amongst other drug companies. T'is well known that the EU are putting on pressure regarding the death penalty in America, why? It's out of their sphere of influence but they still feel they have the right to poke their noses in, outrageous!
This is my point, EU drugs companies who were being paid to supply the drugs because of the shortfall are being used to get across the EU's ideals and now we're seeing this whole absurd scenario where the US can't even get a supply from it's own companies due to pressure being put on by outside influences.
I also think there's a deeper point here and that is that bringing back capital punishment would solve the problem of overcrowding in prisons etc, but of course human rights come first, no matter what that 'human' has done.

Edited by fed up eagle (15 May 2016 12.28pm)

 

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View fed up eagle's Profile fed up eagle Flag Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 15 May 16 12.33pm Send a Private Message to fed up eagle Add fed up eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I'm firmly in the "make executions as gory and painful as possible" camp and swift justice, not leaving them on death row for decades endlessly appealing their sentences.

Pfizer's decision means US States with the death penalties have got to go back to using the Gas Chamber, Electric Chair, Firing Squad or Hanging..... much more of a deterrent to would be murderers.

I fully expect a liberal namby pamby outrage response to my viewpoint..... so answers please below....

Putting murderers to death by drugs is a bit too humane, so a fair point there Hoof. It would put the fear of God into most people facing a firing squad or hang man's rope, so maybe not a bad idea at all

 

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 15 May 16 1.16pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by fed up eagle

Yes but the American government was also using European drugs companies too due to a shortage. They have pulled out of supplying these drugs, this has caused a domino effect amongst other drug companies. T'is well known that the EU are putting on pressure regarding the death penalty in America, why? It's out of their sphere of influence but they still feel they have the right to poke their noses in, outrageous!
This is my point, EU drugs companies who were being paid to supply the drugs because of the shortfall are being used to get across the EU's ideals and now we're seeing this whole absurd scenario where the US can't even get a supply from it's own companies due to pressure being put on by outside influences.
I also think there's a deeper point here and that is that bringing back capital punishment would solve the problem of overcrowding in prisons etc, but of course human rights come first, no matter what that 'human' has done.

Edited by fed up eagle (15 May 2016 12.28pm)

You need to get out more & get some fresh air you talk to much bollox & hyperbole & I'm pretty right wing. Your now saying 'EU' drug companies are complicit. Don't get me wrong I'll be voting 'OUT' but when I listen to morons like you I can understand why people dig in their heels & vote to stay in. Like most things in life you need to learn the craft of compromise.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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View glory's Profile glory Flag 15 May 16 1.18pm Send a Private Message to glory Add glory as a friend

Originally posted by fed up eagle

Yes but the American government was also using European drugs companies too due to a shortage. They have pulled out of supplying these drugs, this has caused a domino effect amongst other drug companies. T'is well known that the EU are putting on pressure regarding the death penalty in America, why? It's out of their sphere of influence but they still feel they have the right to poke their noses in, outrageous!
This is my point, EU drugs companies who were being paid to supply the drugs because of the shortfall are being used to get across the EU's ideals and now we're seeing this whole absurd scenario where the US can't even get a supply from it's own companies due to pressure being put on by outside influences.
I also think there's a deeper point here and that is that bringing back capital punishment would solve the problem of overcrowding in prisons etc, but of course human rights come first, no matter what that 'human' has done.

Edited by fed up eagle (15 May 2016 12.28pm)

Clearly even US drug companies are uncomfortable with their drugs being used for lethal injections so, if what you say is true, it's not all that unusual that others would feel the same way.

The US don't give two s***s about what the EU thinks about the death penalty there. It just so happens that it's something that's very polarising within US society, so what has happened with Pfizer isn't surprising.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 May 16 2.15pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I'm firmly in the "make executions as gory and painful as possible" camp and swift justice, not leaving them on death row for decades endlessly appealing their sentences.

Pfizer's decision means US States with the death penalties have got to go back to using the Gas Chamber, Electric Chair, Firing Squad or Hanging..... much more of a deterrent to would be murderers.

I fully expect a liberal namby pamby outrage response to my viewpoint..... so answers please below....

I think you will agree that I'm not a liberal namby pamby and although I fully understand your point of view, I don't agree with it.
To deliberately torture criminals just displays the same lack of compassion that they showed their victims. Does that not make us as bad as them?
As for the deterrent argument. Not sure the death penalty has been shown to deter anyone statistically.

Punishment should never be about retribution however heinous the crime. The state has to be removed from the emotional element or we decent into a lynch mob culture.

 

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View fed up eagle's Profile fed up eagle Flag Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 15 May 16 2.33pm Send a Private Message to fed up eagle Add fed up eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Jimenez

You need to get out more & get some fresh air you talk to much bollox & hyperbole & I'm pretty right wing. Your now saying 'EU' drug companies are complicit. Don't get me wrong I'll be voting 'OUT' but when I listen to morons like you I can understand why people dig in their heels & vote to stay in. Like most things in life you need to learn the craft of compromise.

What a pleasant fellow you are. I get more fresh air than you probably do. My view is my view and if you don't like it fair enough, but I wouldn't result in calling someone a moron because I disagree with them. You seem pretty angry, maybe one of these drug companies could supply you with some Valium or something.

 

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 15 May 16 9.30pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by fed up eagle

What a pleasant fellow you are. I get more fresh air than you probably do. My view is my view and if you don't like it fair enough, but I wouldn't result in calling someone a moron because I disagree with them. You seem pretty angry, maybe one of these drug companies could supply you with some Valium or something.

Very few drugs I haven't tried in my debauched youth old son. Angry moi? your the one who seems to rant and rave at all and sundry. Maybe therapy would benefit you?

 


Pro USA & Israel

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Hoof Hearted 16 May 16 10.25am

Originally posted by legaleagle

Any chance Dr Joseph Mengele could be retrieved from the jungle in L America somewhere,so he could carry on his good works in a way you would wish in the good ole USA?

Seriously though,you flog and hang 'em asap'ers are shown up for what you are, no?Completely against an entity exercising its democratic right to act as it wishes in a liberal democracy...thought you lot were supposed to be in favour of freedom of speech and actions within the law,or does that only count what you can bash the left or minorities about it?

Edited by legaleagle (15 May 2016 1.19pm)

I didn't advocate Pfizer not being able to do that did I ?

I just rejoiced in the fact that some really nasty serial killers like Bundy and Manson had some of their own "medicine" served up to them rather than a soft death sentence.

Not the first time you've put words in my mouth Rumpole!

 

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Hoof Hearted 16 May 16 10.29am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I think you will agree that I'm not a liberal namby pamby and although I fully understand your point of view, I don't agree with it.
To deliberately torture criminals just displays the same lack of compassion that they showed their victims. Does that not make us as bad as them?
As for the deterrent argument. Not sure the death penalty has been shown to deter anyone statistically.

Punishment should never be about retribution however heinous the crime. The state has to be removed from the emotional element or we decent into a lynch mob culture.

Not a problem Hrolf.... I appreciate my views on this are pretty hardcore for some.

The suggestion to use them as guinea pigs for experimentation that I concurred with was tongue-in-cheek... at least on my part!

Edited by Hoof Hearted (16 May 2016 10.31am)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 16 May 16 12.23pm

Originally posted by fed up eagle

You could use them for testing life saving drugs or operations but the oh so precious pharmaceutical companies will get all moral about it.
There is no point in keeping these people alive, watered, fed etc. They add nothing to society.

That's not how medical trials work. You need as diverse a population study as possible.

They serve as an example. People in prison, often have contributed to society. Prisoners contribute quite a lot to society, as they form the basis by which we establish acceptable behaviour and our own social morality. The problem of a death penalty, from a moral and ethical stand point has always been that its retribution, not justice. The second major issue is that it doesn't serve as a deterrent to very serious crimes either, as murders tend to occur in the 'heat of the moment' or tied to very powerful incentives.

Next of course, its applied somewhat arbitrarily and disproportionately across socio-economic grounds.

As a note, the US spends more in getting to execution than it does on keeping prisoners in prison without parole, because the system of appeals and constitutional requirements to determine the legality of an execution are exhaustive in the extreme.

Finally of course, there is a worrying level of questionable convictions, and incidents of people being exonerated. Most disturbing is the way that since re-introducing the death penalty to the US, the systems have become geared towards making executions easier to achieve by restricting the appeals processes and legal responsibilities of bodies involved towards a specific outcome (i.e. executions, over reviews of new evidence).

Finally, in the US, there is no fair and impartial legal system.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 16 May 16 12.25pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I didn't advocate Pfizer not being able to do that did I ?

I just rejoiced in the fact that some really nasty serial killers like Bundy and Manson had some of their own "medicine" served up to them rather than a soft death sentence.

Not the first time you've put words in my mouth Rumpole!

Manson wasn't executed. Bundy was. Manson, in fact was given a death sentence, but it was commuted when California removed the death penalty.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 16 May 16 12.32pm

Originally posted by fed up eagle

Yes but the American government was also using European drugs companies too due to a shortage. They have pulled out of supplying these drugs, this has caused a domino effect amongst other drug companies. T'is well known that the EU are putting on pressure regarding the death penalty in America, why? It's out of their sphere of influence but they still feel they have the right to poke their noses in, outrageous!
This is my point, EU drugs companies who were being paid to supply the drugs because of the shortfall are being used to get across the EU's ideals and now we're seeing this whole absurd scenario where the US can't even get a supply from it's own companies due to pressure being put on by outside influences.
I also think there's a deeper point here and that is that bringing back capital punishment would solve the problem of overcrowding in prisons etc, but of course human rights come first, no matter what that 'human' has done.

Edited by fed up eagle (15 May 2016 12.28pm)

It wouldn't. It might free up one or two cells in about 10-20 years time. Firstly, because you'd have 10-20 years of appeal and referrals through the court system before you could establish that the death penalty was fairly and arbitrarily applied in the case. Not to mention the legal issues revolving around comparisons to other sentences in other cases, rights appeals, appeals on evidence and procedure etc.

The amount of hassle its proven in the states is staggering (it costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for the rest of their life).

Of course if you mean arbitrarily just killing people convicted of certain crimes, then yes, it would free up prison spaces, but that will never happen and is a total fantasy.

And, yes, its the right decision not to supply the US with drugs utilised in executions, as these are medical drugs, produced from medical research - As such it betrays the Hippocratic oath of those doctors involved in research to allow their work to be used to cause harm.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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