Considering transfers, 3 out of those 10 will fall
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 taylors lovechild  14 Sep 20 8.36am |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Mattteo If you post as much information as you do with the attitude that you are always right, you must accept that you will receive criticism, none of it was rude. It should also be noted that in his first season Bentenke had a huge hand in keeping us up. Same too for Sakho. For many people Sakho still would be our best defender were he not always injured. A lot of creative midfielders have stepped up from the Championship in recent years, notably Maddison and Harvey Barnes spring to mind. Strikers perhaps haven't fared quite so well. Also coming from the Championship players don't have to adapt to the lifestyle in the UK, in addition to the football. Some players don't settle for other reasons than football, and that is a genuine consideration. And then there is the case that some players just don't suit the team, while clubs also take into account a player's personality and attitude these days too. There are no certainties mattteo. You obviously spend a lot of time watching football, but you can never know that a player will definitely settle and play well enough to justify their fee.
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mattteo  14 Sep 20 8.54am |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Mattteo If you post as much information as you do with the attitude that you are always right, you must accept that you will receive criticism, none of it was rude. I think you're missing the point here. Benteke played well when he transfered TO the PL FROM OUTSIDE. He played like s*** when he transfered to us FROM WITHIN the PL, which is pretty much the topic here.
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| mattteo 14 Sep 20 8.56am |
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@taylord_lovechild, of course,such an analogy is correct for players coming from everywhere, absolutely everywhere. But one can't say it's more likely to be a flop coming from outside and not adapting than it is coming from the Championship for the same money or more. That's not reasonable thinking.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 14 Sep 20 9.57am |
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Originally posted by mattteo
@taylord_lovechild, of course,such an analogy is correct for players coming from everywhere, absolutely everywhere. But one can't say it's more likely to be a flop coming from outside and not adapting than it is coming from the Championship for the same money or more. That's not reasonable thinking. Who is arguing otherwise? You asked; “why would someone from the Bundesliga not settle in the PL?”, I provided some examples who haven’t. You then started talking about comparisons with the championship rather than just accept your point wasn’t a very good one.
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| mattteo 14 Sep 20 10.02am |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Who is arguing otherwise? You asked; “why would someone from the Bundesliga not settle in the PL?” It's always meant as a comparison. There are examples of players who didn't adapt from everywhere. Anyone can give names. Players from England, Spain, Germany, the Championship, League One, raised in the Academy, Sellhurst graduates etc have not adapted after a transfer or in the first team of an English club. That is not a logical answer why a player from the Bundesliga might not adapt.
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| Spiderman Horsham 14 Sep 20 10.09am |
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Originally posted by mattteo
I think you're missing the point here. Benteke played well when he transfered TO the PL FROM OUTSIDE. He played like s*** when he transfered to us FROM WITHIN the PL, which is pretty much the topic here. Apologies I thought the topic concerned whether players may or may not settle in England when transferred from abroad. IMO your point about Benteke is wrong his first season with us he scored 16 goals which basically kept us up Edited by Spiderman (14 Sep 2020 10.14am)
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| Spiderman Horsham 14 Sep 20 10.11am |
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Originally posted by doombear
But will he want reminding if he was wrong?
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| mattteo 14 Sep 20 10.33am |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Edited by Spiderman (14 Sep 2020 10.14am) You keep saying that, but actually it was just 15 and without taking penalties (which anyone could have taken) they were just 13 goals from open play. I've hardly ever seen a striker who is sent on the pitch for 3100 minutes in a season score less. Yes, it happened (Shane Long and others), but it doesn't happen often. Most strikers who play that much score or assist more often than every 250 minutes. He also contributed next to nothing assisting that season, with just 2 assists. For a main center forward of his size, one would have though he places balls with his head for the players behind him more often. And in the next seasons 5 goals and 8 assists in 4300 minutes and on a huge salary. (On average once every 350 minutes) Meanwhile, Haller, who you say did not adapt, played 2200 minutes, scored 7 and assisted 2, with a much better defensive work rate and speed coming back than Benteke (more hard working). He didn't get more playing time because they expected more from him than just score or assist every 200 minutes, so he didnt get to the 3100 minutes Benteke had in his first season. If he had, I'm sure he could have scored at least 10, and from no penalties (from 2100 minutes to 3100 minutes is a 33% difference so his 7 goals doesn't count less than Benteke's in his first year here. For his later years....there really isn't even a comparison). I wouldn't say Benteke kept anyone in the PL. Any striker who would have gotten those minutes would have kept the team up with at least as many goals. He just got so much patience because he was a 30 million signing and at that time was a huge amount. If anything,it's Palace and the teamates that kept HIM in a top league. Edited by mattteo (14 Sep 2020 10.37am)
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| Spiderman Horsham 14 Sep 20 6.16pm |
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Originally posted by mattteo
You keep saying that, but actually it was just 15 and without taking penalties (which anyone could have taken) they were just 13 goals from open play. I've hardly ever seen a striker who is sent on the pitch for 3100 minutes in a season score less. Yes, it happened (Shane Long and others), but it doesn't happen often. Most strikers who play that much score or assist more often than every 250 minutes. He also contributed next to nothing assisting that season, with just 2 assists. For a main center forward of his size, one would have though he places balls with his head for the players behind him more often. And in the next seasons 5 goals and 8 assists in 4300 minutes and on a huge salary. (On average once every 350 minutes) Meanwhile, Haller, who you say did not adapt, played 2200 minutes, scored 7 and assisted 2, with a much better defensive work rate and speed coming back than Benteke (more hard working). He didn't get more playing time because they expected more from him than just score or assist every 200 minutes, so he didnt get to the 3100 minutes Benteke had in his first season. If he had, I'm sure he could have scored at least 10, and from no penalties (from 2100 minutes to 3100 minutes is a 33% difference so his 7 goals doesn't count less than Benteke's in his first year here. For his later years....there really isn't even a comparison). I wouldn't say Benteke kept anyone in the PL. Any striker who would have gotten those minutes would have kept the team up with at least as many goals. He just got so much patience because he was a 30 million signing and at that time was a huge amount. If anything,it's Palace and the teamates that kept HIM in a top league. Edited by mattteo (14 Sep 2020 10.37am) Ok you believe what you want your perogative. IMO you are wrong, my perogative.
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| Helmet46 Croydon 14 Sep 20 10.53pm |
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Originally posted by mattteo
No, it wasn't. You can create a viewpoint however you want. You can gather evidence to support any claim. Doesn't mean its right. The comparison was made with a Championship player. Are there more chances that a player from the Championship won't disapoint? Is paying 20+ million for Benrahma safer than paying 16 million for one of the best prospects in Europe? Because Marko Marin and Mikhitarian didn't play well enough for Top 6 teams? Ok, but how many players coming from the Championship didn't make it? What's the percentage? I tell you that it's greater than that of players who came from the Bundesliga (Ballack, Klinnsmann, Sane, Leno, Rudiger etc). Some from the Championship make it, but most don't. And even from the ones transferred from the PL itself: Was Benteke a safe bet? Worst 30 million investment ever. Oh wait, Sakho....he came from the PL too... Didn’t Klinnsmann join Spurs from Monaco and didn’t Rudiger Join Chelsea from Roma? I agree they were in the Bundesliga once, but they were perhaps a safer bet as someone else had taken the gamble. In other words it was proven that they could settle in another country before a PL team took the gamble.
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| mattteo 15 Sep 20 8.00am |
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Ummm...well, the idea is that Rashica was born in Kosovo or Albania and has already settled in 2 countries by 24 years: Netherlands and Germany, so...
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| mars Folkestone 15 Sep 20 8.28am |
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One week in and Fulham & West Brom looking good for the drop! Who will join them? Who knows? Maybe Sheffield Utd?
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