shoot those EU thieves

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 Dec 20 11.15am
Originally posted by Matov The problem with this view point is that there is often a massive contradiction apparent in what we hear people say and how votes actually go. I always use my personal experience of Croatia where I spend (until this year) a reasonable amount of time. Almost everybody I speak to down there have nothing but contempt of the EU. And yet when they had a vote on joining up with it, 70% voted in favour. Which really puzzled me until I spoke to a couple of the more vocal anti-EU voices down there who confessed to having voted to join. What they explained to me was that they had such little faith in their own Government (which is corrupt as f***) that they wanted a body such as Brussels to be involved because although they disliked it they still trusted it more than their own political system. And I suspect this might be a case in many of the other smaller nations as well. It's quite obvious, however, that people might want to go to The Hotel California. It sounds nice at first Yet, there is no vote afterwards, whilst the same politicians have the Hotel as their cosy retirement love nest. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 Dec 20 11.15am

Originally posted by Matov

The problem with this view point is that there is often a massive contradiction apparent in what we hear people say and how votes actually go.

I always use my personal experience of Croatia where I spend (until this year) a reasonable amount of time. Almost everybody I speak to down there have nothing but contempt of the EU. And yet when they had a vote on joining up with it, 70% voted in favour.

Which really puzzled me until I spoke to a couple of the more vocal anti-EU voices down there who confessed to having voted to join. What they explained to me was that they had such little faith in their own Government (which is corrupt as f***) that they wanted a body such as Brussels to be involved because although they disliked it they still trusted it more than their own political system. And I suspect this might be a case in many of the other smaller nations as well.

It's quite obvious, however, that people might want to go to The Hotel California. It sounds nice at first Yet, there is no vote afterwards, whilst the same politicians have the Hotel as their cosy retirement love nest.

Red and Blue Army!

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Mapletree Croydon 14 Dec 20 12.28pm
Originally posted by Matov The problem with this view point is that there is often a massive contradiction apparent in what we hear people say and how votes actually go. I always use my personal experience of Croatia where I spend (until this year) a reasonable amount of time. Almost everybody I speak to down there have nothing but contempt of the EU. And yet when they had a vote on joining up with it, 70% voted in favour. Which really puzzled me until I spoke to a couple of the more vocal anti-EU voices down there who confessed to having voted to join. What they explained to me was that they had such little faith in their own Government (which is corrupt as f***) that they wanted a body such as Brussels to be involved because although they disliked it they still trusted it more than their own political system. And I suspect this might be a case in many of the other smaller nations as well. I think you may find a few in the UK feeling the same way. The EU holds its path but is slow. The current government is all over the place. It is going to massively change many things quickly and many, possibly most, people stand a good chance of being worse off. Ask those in the media, agriculture, travel, hospitality, manufacturing, Finance and Professional Services as a starting position.
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Mapletree

Croydon 14 Dec 20 12.28pm

Originally posted by Matov

The problem with this view point is that there is often a massive contradiction apparent in what we hear people say and how votes actually go.

I think you may find a few in the UK feeling the same way. The EU holds its path but is slow. The current government is all over the place. It is going to massively change many things quickly and many, possibly most, people stand a good chance of being worse off.

Ask those in the media, agriculture, travel, hospitality, manufacturing, Finance and Professional Services as a starting position.

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jeeagles 14 Dec 20 1.03pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy- so happy with the EU. Massive unemployment, everything twice as expensive, getting told off by the Germans, what's not to like? If there was an EU wide referendum, which there would not be. It would be a close run thing. All the Germans I know, and the French hate the EU too. How the f*** it rides roughshod over everyone's lives - who knows? A majority of Irish like it, but not the size of majority you might expect. I don't think anyone likes the EU, even moderate remainers. Apart from a bunch of weirdo lefties on twitter with European flags next to their names, and the cardigan wearing numpties waving flags outside of parliament every day as they have nothing better to do with their time. The lot that do like it are too thick to realise that they are operate on the same level of intellect and social status as UKIP members. I'd have voted for remain. I was happy with the status quo, I didn't want anyone rocking the boat, I didn't want to be on the same side as the UKIPpers, and leaving would be a pain in the arse. The EU/EC are great employers and bring a lot of money to the Brussels bubble. Unfortunately, those that are involved in it live in an echochamber where they are completely oblivious to the rising discontent with a centralised one rule for all government system. Even with Brexit, they are still in complete denial. Resentment of it will only grow across Europe until it's too late to change.
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jeeagles

14 Dec 20 1.03pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy- so happy with the EU. Massive unemployment, everything twice as expensive, getting told off by the Germans, what's not to like?
If there was an EU wide referendum, which there would not be. It would be a close run thing. All the Germans I know, and the French hate the EU too. How the f*** it rides roughshod over everyone's lives - who knows? A majority of Irish like it, but not the size of majority you might expect.

I don't think anyone likes the EU, even moderate remainers. Apart from a bunch of weirdo lefties on twitter with European flags next to their names, and the cardigan wearing numpties waving flags outside of parliament every day as they have nothing better to do with their time.

The lot that do like it are too thick to realise that they are operate on the same level of intellect and social status as UKIP members.

I'd have voted for remain. I was happy with the status quo, I didn't want anyone rocking the boat, I didn't want to be on the same side as the UKIPpers, and leaving would be a pain in the arse.

The EU/EC are great employers and bring a lot of money to the Brussels bubble. Unfortunately, those that are involved in it live in an echochamber where they are completely oblivious to the rising discontent with a centralised one rule for all government system. Even with Brexit, they are still in complete denial. Resentment of it will only grow across Europe until it's too late to change.

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Matov 14 Dec 20 1.51pm
Originally posted by Mapletree I think you may find a few in the UK feeling the same way. 48%. As opposed to 52%. C'est la Brexit. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

14 Dec 20 1.51pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I think you may find a few in the UK feeling the same way.

48%.

As opposed to 52%.

C'est la Brexit.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Spiderman Horsham 14 Dec 20 1.54pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Hmmmmmm 12,000 fishermen 2,290,000 in Professional Services 1,100,000 in Financial Services You choose Depends if you are a fisherman trying to support your family I suppose!
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Spiderman

Horsham 14 Dec 20 1.54pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Hmmmmmm

12,000 fishermen

2,290,000 in Professional Services

1,100,000 in Financial Services

You choose

Depends if you are a fisherman trying to support your family I suppose!

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Mapletree Croydon 14 Dec 20 2.44pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Depends if you are a fisherman trying to support your family I suppose! Or a lawyer trying to do the same
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Mapletree

Croydon 14 Dec 20 2.44pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Depends if you are a fisherman trying to support your family I suppose!

Or a lawyer trying to do the same

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Mapletree Croydon 14 Dec 20 2.47pm
Originally posted by Matov 48%. As opposed to 52%. C'est la Brexit. Is that the current state of play then? When I said some may be feeling the same way, you don't think feelings will have changed? Maybe you can prove that. I know a few farmers who are currently very confused and worried and who don't see things the same way as they did in June 2016. Hey, it's only 4 1/2 years, what could possibly have changed in that time.
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Mapletree

Croydon 14 Dec 20 2.47pm

Originally posted by Matov

48%.

As opposed to 52%.

C'est la Brexit.

Is that the current state of play then? When I said some may be feeling the same way, you don't think feelings will have changed? Maybe you can prove that.

I know a few farmers who are currently very confused and worried and who don't see things the same way as they did in June 2016. Hey, it's only 4 1/2 years, what could possibly have changed in that time.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 Dec 20 2.51pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Is that the current state of play then? When I said some may be feeling the same way, you don't think feelings will have changed? Maybe you can prove that. I know a few farmers who are currently very confused and worried and who don't see things the same way as they did in June 2016. Hey, it's only 4 1/2 years, what could possibly have changed in that time. Surely Boris' election demonstrates something? However, it's taken so long and the positives may not seem so tangible right now, that I wouldn't be entirely surprised if some have changed their minds. I couldn't say if it would be a different referendum result now but I would guess that it's possible. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 Dec 20 2.51pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Is that the current state of play then? When I said some may be feeling the same way, you don't think feelings will have changed? Maybe you can prove that.

Surely Boris' election demonstrates something? However, it's taken so long and the positives may not seem so tangible right now, that I wouldn't be entirely surprised if some have changed their minds. I couldn't say if it would be a different referendum result now but I would guess that it's possible.

Red and Blue Army!

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Badger11 Beckenham 14 Dec 20 3.30pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Or a lawyer trying to do the same Good point however the EU doesn't have a free market for many of the service industries where we are strong and I believe that includes legal work so your lawyer would not be able to move to Europe and practice law easily. Funny that free market for manufactured goods and raw materials which suits the Germans, free market for agricultural produce which suits the French when it comes to our strength service industries no such luck. It's almost as if it was a stitch up so that we paid and got very little back. Glad we have left. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 14 Dec 20 3.30pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Or a lawyer trying to do the same

Good point however the EU doesn't have a free market for many of the service industries where we are strong and I believe that includes legal work so your lawyer would not be able to move to Europe and practice law easily.

Funny that free market for manufactured goods and raw materials which suits the Germans, free market for agricultural produce which suits the French when it comes to our strength service industries no such luck.

It's almost as if it was a stitch up so that we paid and got very little back.

Glad we have left.

One more point

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nead1 14 Dec 20 4.19pm
Really - a trading bloc that takes 43% of our exports with a population size of 447m making its single mkt comparable in size to the US and China. We want to turn our back on that? The arguments put forward by the likes of Boris et al are turning out to be the complete illusion that they always were. A generation brought up on tales of British military victories over Germany and France finds it hard to envisage that Britain, a population of 67m, will not ultimately prevail over the EU who, quite understandably, look after their own interests first. Just like the rubbish that Gavin Williamson recently uttered - total utter jingoism - and the comments over the weekend about "Merkel wants Britain to crawl across broken glass". Its hard to think of a more offensive remark along with the same nonsense about sending in the gun boats. Actually, I find it no way surprising that Boris has made the concession around the LPF - just like he did last year re Northern Ireland when the UK was essentially divided up; he knows the reality of the situation and I suspect further painful concessions will emerge in due course.
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nead1

14 Dec 20 4.19pm

Really - a trading bloc that takes 43% of our exports with a population size of 447m making its single mkt comparable in size to the US and China. We want to turn our back on that?

The arguments put forward by the likes of Boris et al are turning out to be the complete illusion that they always were. A generation brought up on tales of British military victories over Germany and France finds it hard to envisage that Britain, a population of 67m, will not ultimately prevail over the EU who, quite understandably, look after their own interests first. Just like the rubbish that Gavin Williamson recently uttered - total utter jingoism - and the comments over the weekend about "Merkel wants Britain to crawl across broken glass".
Its hard to think of a more offensive remark along with the same nonsense about sending in the gun boats.
Actually, I find it no way surprising that Boris has made the concession around the LPF - just like he did last year re Northern Ireland when the UK was essentially divided up; he knows the reality of the situation and I suspect further painful concessions will emerge in due course.

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steeleye20 Croydon 14 Dec 20 5.38pm
I am disappointed with the EU making a free trade deal with the UK. Especially in such a botched, rushed way, why is the EU so desperate over a departed member, keeping to a ridiculous UK dead-line. 'Consequences - Pierre Hollande' former French leader. He could have been addressing that to the EU leaders. Macron, Merkel and co. could be running out of road, and it is their own problem.
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steeleye20

Croydon 14 Dec 20 5.38pm

I am disappointed with the EU making a free trade deal with the UK.

Especially in such a botched, rushed way, why is the EU so desperate over a departed member, keeping to a ridiculous UK dead-line.

'Consequences - Pierre Hollande' former French leader.

He could have been addressing that to the EU leaders.

Macron, Merkel and co. could be running out of road, and it is their own problem.

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Badger11 Beckenham 14 Dec 20 6.04pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I am disappointed with the EU making a free trade deal with the UK. Especially in such a botched, rushed way, why is the EU so desperate over a departed member, keeping to a ridiculous UK dead-line. 'Consequences - Pierre Hollande' former French leader. He could have been addressing that to the EU leaders. Macron, Merkel and co. could be running out of road, and it is their own problem. 4 years of haggling is hardly rushed and we still haven't done a deal. If we do let's see the detail before we decide if it's a good or bad deal. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 14 Dec 20 6.04pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I am disappointed with the EU making a free trade deal with the UK.

Especially in such a botched, rushed way, why is the EU so desperate over a departed member, keeping to a ridiculous UK dead-line.

'Consequences - Pierre Hollande' former French leader.

He could have been addressing that to the EU leaders.

Macron, Merkel and co. could be running out of road, and it is their own problem.

4 years of haggling is hardly rushed and we still haven't done a deal.

If we do let's see the detail before we decide if it's a good or bad deal.

One more point

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