Israel / Palestine

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 3.52pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 3.47pm Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 3.38pm They are trying to use military force to get rid of a democratically elected Government. If they want rid of Hamas, surely it would make sense to keep some sort of infrastructure in place in order that new elections could take place in the near future! Is that an answer? What infrastructure? I don't understand what that means. Do you stand by your claim?....you posted the links....That Israel intend to stay in Gaza so that they can control gas reserves and that's their motivation. As for a democratically elected government....Yeah, they won elections and then suspended them. Hamas haven't allowed elections and they won theirs in 2006.....Eight years with no democracy. What infrastructure? Exactly right. Bombing hospitals. Hmm parallels with our lot. What was the first thing the coalition did? pushed through 5 year fixed term parliaments. Whilst I accept that Hamas do not recognize the state of Israel, it is still no excuse for indiscriminate murder. Yes, the conspiracy theorist in me does think that Israel don't want Palestine to have any sort of autonomy over themselves, particularly if they are able to become more financially self sufficient through it's oil. You are a little myopic if you think that the Israeli government haven't got their eyes on the gas reserves. Edited by nickgusset (20 Jul 2014 3.53pm)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 3.52pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 3.47pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 3.38pm

They are trying to use military force to get rid of a democratically elected Government. If they want rid of Hamas, surely it would make sense to keep some sort of infrastructure in place in order that new elections could take place in the near future!

Is that an answer? What infrastructure? I don't understand what that means.

Do you stand by your claim?....you posted the links....That Israel intend to stay in Gaza so that they can control gas reserves and that's their motivation.

As for a democratically elected government....Yeah, they won elections and then suspended them. Hamas haven't allowed elections and they won theirs in 2006.....Eight years with no democracy.

What infrastructure? Exactly right. Bombing hospitals.
Hmm parallels with our lot. What was the first thing the coalition did? pushed through 5 year fixed term parliaments.
Whilst I accept that Hamas do not recognize the state of Israel, it is still no excuse for indiscriminate murder.
Yes, the conspiracy theorist in me does think that Israel don't want Palestine to have any sort of autonomy over themselves, particularly if they are able to become more financially self sufficient through it's oil.
You are a little myopic if you think that the Israeli government haven't got their eyes on the gas reserves.

Edited by nickgusset (20 Jul 2014 3.53pm)

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Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 3.59pm
Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 3.52pm What infrastructure? Exactly right. Bombing hospitals. Hmm parallels with our lot. What was the first thing the coalition did? pushed through 5 year fixed term parliaments. Whilst I accept that Hamas do not recognize the state of Israel, it is still no excuse for indiscriminate murder. Yes, the conspiracy theorist in me does think that Israel don't want Palestine to have any sort of autonomy over themselves, particularly if they are able to become more financially self sufficient through it's oil. You are a little myopic if you think that the Israeli government haven't got their eyes on the gas reserves. Edited by nickgusset (20 Jul 2014 3.53pm) So 'yes' is your answer, Ok then. Personally I think you've lost your marbles and when Israel pull out and Hamas resume control...Which is the realistic end game here. I want everyone who read this thread to note just how wrong and gullible you can be sometimes Nick. I don't think Israel have eyes on Gaza's oil reserves firstly because they can't control the region without forcing all the Palestinians out of it and secondly because they can control the exporting of production anyway.....Why do they need to invade when they can just block air and sea? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Jul 14 3.59pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 3.52pm

Edited by nickgusset (20 Jul 2014 3.53pm)

So 'yes' is your answer, Ok then.

Personally I think you've lost your marbles and when Israel pull out and Hamas resume control...Which is the realistic end game here. I want everyone who read this thread to note just how wrong and gullible you can be sometimes Nick.

I don't think Israel have eyes on Gaza's oil reserves firstly because they can't control the region without forcing all the Palestinians out of it and secondly because they can control the exporting of production anyway.....Why do they need to invade when they can just block air and sea?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 4.02pm
Nick five year fixed term governments in Britain.....A change that makes sense is not comparable in any way.....Any sodding way with Hamas not allowing elections in Gaza. Are you smoking something or what? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Jul 14 4.02pm

Nick five year fixed term governments in Britain.....A change that makes sense is not comparable in any way.....Any sodding way with Hamas not allowing elections in Gaza.

Are you smoking something or what?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 20 Jul 14 4.26pm
Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 2.08pm Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 2.06pm Quote legaleagle at 20 Jul 2014 2.00pm Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like I am sure they failed you when you read the HAMAS Charter. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" with some bonkers views. While this bloke's views are unrealistic and unacceptable they do not compare with Hamas's. I read the article. Do Hamas offer emigration compensation for Jews when they take back Israel?.....Errrr no....They offer a bullet in the head. Do Hamas offer Palestinian citizenship to Jews who would wish to live in a Palestinian state?....no....They offer a bullet in the head. Because they are under occupation. Until that ends... Well you can't really blame them. Wow. Just wow. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 20 Jul 14 4.26pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 2.08pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 2.06pm

Quote legaleagle at 20 Jul 2014 2.00pm

Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like I am sure they failed you when you read the HAMAS Charter. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" with some bonkers views.

While this bloke's views are unrealistic and unacceptable they do not compare with Hamas's.

I read the article.

Do Hamas offer emigration compensation for Jews when they take back Israel?.....Errrr no....They offer a bullet in the head.

Do Hamas offer Palestinian citizenship to Jews who would wish to live in a Palestinian state?....no....They offer a bullet in the head.

Because they are under occupation. Until that ends... Well you can't really blame them.

Wow. Just wow.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 20 Jul 14 4.29pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 20 Jul 2014 11.49am Don't Hamas deliberately place their missile launchers in residential areas (contravening the Geneva Convention)? Still waiting for a response, Nick. How do you square this one? What are the Israelis meant to do? Just sit there and take it? Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 20 Jul 14 4.29pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 20 Jul 2014 11.49am

Don't Hamas deliberately place their missile launchers in residential areas (contravening the Geneva Convention)?

Still waiting for a response, Nick. How do you square this one? What are the Israelis meant to do? Just sit there and take it?

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 4.33pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 4.02pm Nick five year fixed term governments in Britain.....A change that makes sense is not comparable in any way.....Any sodding way with Hamas not allowing elections in Gaza. Are you smoking something or what? I don't wish to deflect away from the thread too much, but I do think the coalition knew they were on shaky ground so rushed through the fixed term. Looking after their own interests etc. Likewise the lack of Palestine election down to, perhaps, Hamas maintaining a grip by not holding them. A small comparison perhaps, but one nonetheless. Is continually bombing Palestine going to make conditions conducive to holding an election, even if Hamas were to announce them? I doubt it.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 4.33pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 4.02pm

Nick five year fixed term governments in Britain.....A change that makes sense is not comparable in any way.....Any sodding way with Hamas not allowing elections in Gaza.

Are you smoking something or what?

I don't wish to deflect away from the thread too much, but I do think the coalition knew they were on shaky ground so rushed through the fixed term. Looking after their own interests etc. Likewise the lack of Palestine election down to, perhaps, Hamas maintaining a grip by not holding them. A small comparison perhaps, but one nonetheless.
Is continually bombing Palestine going to make conditions conducive to holding an election, even if Hamas were to announce them? I doubt it.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 4.36pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 20 Jul 2014 4.29pm Quote Cucking Funt at 20 Jul 2014 11.49am Don't Hamas deliberately place their missile launchers in residential areas (contravening the Geneva Convention)? Still waiting for a response, Nick. How do you square this one? What are the Israelis meant to do? Just sit there and take it? No of course not. But bombing the bejeebers out of them is more likely to strengthen resolve. The way forward, as was in Ireland, is through meaningful dialogue. Neither side seems to want to budge.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 4.36pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 20 Jul 2014 4.29pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 20 Jul 2014 11.49am

Don't Hamas deliberately place their missile launchers in residential areas (contravening the Geneva Convention)?

Still waiting for a response, Nick. How do you square this one? What are the Israelis meant to do? Just sit there and take it?

No of course not. But bombing the bejeebers out of them is more likely to strengthen resolve.
The way forward, as was in Ireland, is through meaningful dialogue. Neither side seems to want to budge.

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Palacetinian Surrey Fam 20 Jul 14 4.58pm
Dialogue with Hamas is needed - Nick is right - not the massacre currently taking place. Israel helped to create Hamas as an opposition to secular leader Yasser Arafat who they didn't want to deal with until 1993 - this article gives some background. [Link] Supporting Crystal Palace since 19.45 on 29th August 1972 (approximately)!
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Palacetinian

Surrey Fam 20 Jul 14 4.58pm

Dialogue with Hamas is needed - Nick is right - not the massacre currently taking place. Israel helped to create Hamas as an opposition to secular leader Yasser Arafat who they didn't want to deal with until 1993 - this article gives some background.

[Link]

Supporting Crystal Palace since 19.45 on 29th August 1972 (approximately)!

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Palacetinian Surrey Fam 20 Jul 14 5.34pm
Worth 5 minutes and 40 seconds of anyone's time! [Link] Supporting Crystal Palace since 19.45 on 29th August 1972 (approximately)!
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Palacetinian

Surrey Fam 20 Jul 14 5.34pm

Worth 5 minutes and 40 seconds of anyone's time! [Link]

Supporting Crystal Palace since 19.45 on 29th August 1972 (approximately)!

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 7.59pm
[Link] A comparison between two horrors. The Ukrainian air 'crash' and Gaza. Thoughts?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 7.59pm

[Link]

A comparison between two horrors. The Ukrainian air 'crash' and Gaza.
Thoughts?

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Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 8.14pm
Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 4.33pm Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 4.02pm Nick five year fixed term governments in Britain.....A change that makes sense is not comparable in any way.....Any sodding way with Hamas not allowing elections in Gaza. Are you smoking something or what? I don't wish to deflect away from the thread too much, but I do think the coalition knew they were on shaky ground so rushed through the fixed term. Looking after their own interests etc. Likewise the lack of Palestine election down to, perhaps, Hamas maintaining a grip by not holding them. A small comparison perhaps, but one nonetheless. Is continually bombing Palestine going to make conditions conducive to holding an election, even if Hamas were to announce them? I doubt it. Over wrought inaccurate language just flows out of you Nick. Your whole comparison is silly yet you carry on defending it. Hamas have stayed in power three years over... Yet you compare this with legislation that our own two houses passed via a coalition government...... doesn't bear any comparison and there are benefits to fixed terms. Anyway how is a fixed term looking after their own interests? It takes away choice as before they could choose anytime within a years window between four and five years.....It isn't as though it is giving them more time...They could have five years anyway. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Jul 14 8.14pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 4.33pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 4.02pm

Nick five year fixed term governments in Britain.....A change that makes sense is not comparable in any way.....Any sodding way with Hamas not allowing elections in Gaza.

Are you smoking something or what?

Over wrought inaccurate language just flows out of you Nick.

Your whole comparison is silly yet you carry on defending it. Hamas have stayed in power three years over... Yet you compare this with legislation that our own two houses passed via a coalition government...... doesn't bear any comparison and there are benefits to fixed terms.

Anyway how is a fixed term looking after their own interests? It takes away choice as before they could choose anytime within a years window between four and five years.....It isn't as though it is giving them more time...They could have five years anyway.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 8.18pm
Quote Palacetinian at 20 Jul 2014 4.58pm Dialogue with Hamas is needed - Nick is right - not the massacre currently taking place. Israel helped to create Hamas as an opposition to secular leader Yasser Arafat who they didn't want to deal with until 1993 - this article gives some background. [Link] Yeah Nick is right.....You couldn't be biased about that could you? You know considering your Hol name and all that. Tell me, what is in it for Israel with having a dialogue with Hamas? Hamas's constitution makes it clear that it will accept nothing but the wiping of Israel from the map. All ceasefires or truces are but stop gaps to that aim. All attempts to get them to change this have failed....Their leader calls recognizing Israel a 'red line'. Tell me, what on earth could Israel gain from dialogue with Hamas? Hamas seeks to wipe them out. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 8.19pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Jul 14 8.18pm

Quote Palacetinian at 20 Jul 2014 4.58pm

[Link]

Yeah Nick is right.....You couldn't be biased about that could you? You know considering your Hol name and all that.

Tell me, what is in it for Israel with having a dialogue with Hamas?

Hamas's constitution makes it clear that it will accept nothing but the wiping of Israel from the map. All ceasefires or truces are but stop gaps to that aim.

All attempts to get them to change this have failed....Their leader calls recognizing Israel a 'red line'.

Tell me, what on earth could Israel gain from dialogue with Hamas?

Hamas seeks to wipe them out.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 8.19pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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