Israel / Palestine

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ghosteagle 25 Jul 14 1.25pm
"Go to the UN compounds. If they are full stay closest to them.....Rocket science isn't it." In light of Israel firing on UN schools and children, would you like to take back this piece of advice Stirling?
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ghosteagle

25 Jul 14 1.25pm

"Go to the UN compounds. If they are full stay closest to them.....Rocket science isn't it."

In light of Israel firing on UN schools and children, would you like to take back this piece of advice Stirling?

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Stirlingsays 25 Jul 14 2.20pm
Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 1.25pm "Go to the UN compounds. If they are full stay closest to them.....Rocket science isn't it." In light of Israel firing on UN schools and children, would you like to take back this piece of advice Stirling? Are Hamas responsible by cynically setting this up....Fighting from the complex or near it? Or indeed doing this themselves. Deliberate or stray Israeli fire? I would say all these are possible with the Israeli options being the most likely. But as of yet we don't know the circumstances for this incident. I'd say whatever happened this is a tragedy and if there has been any proven deliberate targeting of civilians by the IDF then prosecutions must follow. As for my advice......Of course it still stands. The UN facilities remain the safest place to be. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 2.48pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

25 Jul 14 2.20pm

Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 1.25pm

"Go to the UN compounds. If they are full stay closest to them.....Rocket science isn't it."

In light of Israel firing on UN schools and children, would you like to take back this piece of advice Stirling?

Are Hamas responsible by cynically setting this up....Fighting from the complex or near it? Or indeed doing this themselves.

Deliberate or stray Israeli fire? I would say all these are possible with the Israeli options being the most likely.

But as of yet we don't know the circumstances for this incident.

I'd say whatever happened this is a tragedy and if there has been any proven deliberate targeting of civilians by the IDF then prosecutions must follow.

As for my advice......Of course it still stands. The UN facilities remain the safest place to be.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 2.48pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 25 Jul 14 2.26pm
Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.58pm So how come Britain had a mandate from the UN to govern a place called Palestine? The fact that Israel declared it no longer existed doesn't mean it doesn't. Even right wing Israelis (i.e. nearly all of them) don't maintain the fiction that Palestine doesn't exist any more. That seems to make you even more right wing than them, which takes some doing. The same right that gave the Ottomans a mandate. The same right that gave the Romans a mandate. The same right that gave the Persians a mandate. And so on. Right is might. Might is why you sit living a comfortable existence typing this on a keyboard. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 2.27pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

25 Jul 14 2.26pm

Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.58pm

So how come Britain had a mandate from the UN to govern a place called Palestine? The fact that Israel declared it no longer existed doesn't mean it doesn't. Even right wing Israelis (i.e. nearly all of them) don't maintain the fiction that Palestine doesn't exist any more. That seems to make you even more right wing than them, which takes some doing.

The same right that gave the Ottomans a mandate.

The same right that gave the Romans a mandate.

The same right that gave the Persians a mandate.

And so on.

Right is might.

Might is why you sit living a comfortable existence typing this on a keyboard.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 2.27pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ghosteagle 25 Jul 14 2.32pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 2.20pm Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 1.25pm "Go to the UN compounds. If they are full stay closest to them.....Rocket science isn't it." In light of Israel firing on UN schools and children, would you like to take back this piece of advice Stirling? Are Hamas responsible by cynically setting this up....Fighting from the complex or near it? Or indeed doing this themselves. Deliberate or stray Israeli fire? I would say all these are possible with the Israeli options being the most likely. But as of yet we don't know the circumstances yet to that incident. I'd say whatever happened this is a tragedy and if there has been any proven deliberate targeting of civilians by the IDF then prosecutions must follow. As for my advice......Of course it still stands. The UN facilities remain the safest place to be. I think you should be posting in the conspiracy thread.
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ghosteagle

25 Jul 14 2.32pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 2.20pm

Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 1.25pm

"Go to the UN compounds. If they are full stay closest to them.....Rocket science isn't it."

In light of Israel firing on UN schools and children, would you like to take back this piece of advice Stirling?

Are Hamas responsible by cynically setting this up....Fighting from the complex or near it? Or indeed doing this themselves.

Deliberate or stray Israeli fire? I would say all these are possible with the Israeli options being the most likely.

But as of yet we don't know the circumstances yet to that incident.

I'd say whatever happened this is a tragedy and if there has been any proven deliberate targeting of civilians by the IDF then prosecutions must follow.

As for my advice......Of course it still stands. The UN facilities remain the safest place to be.

I think you should be posting in the conspiracy thread.

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Stirlingsays 25 Jul 14 2.37pm
Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 2.32pm I think you should be posting in the conspiracy thread. Cheap and lazy comment. I've already mentioned that Israel are probably the most likely cause. You're the one talking of facts without actually knowing who did what. Your automatic bias shines through all your posts. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 2.41pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

25 Jul 14 2.37pm

Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 2.32pm

I think you should be posting in the conspiracy thread.

Cheap and lazy comment. I've already mentioned that Israel are probably the most likely cause.

You're the one talking of facts without actually knowing who did what.

Your automatic bias shines through all your posts.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 2.41pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ghosteagle 25 Jul 14 2.42pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 2.37pm Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 2.32pm I think you should be posting in the conspiracy thread. Cheap and pathetic comment. I've already mentioned that Israel are probably the most likely cause. You're the one talking of facts without actually knowing who did what. Your automatic bias shines through all your posts. I also think you should get a sense of humor.
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ghosteagle

25 Jul 14 2.42pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 2.37pm

Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 2.32pm

I think you should be posting in the conspiracy thread.

Cheap and pathetic comment. I've already mentioned that Israel are probably the most likely cause.

You're the one talking of facts without actually knowing who did what.

Your automatic bias shines through all your posts.

I also think you should get a sense of humor.

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Stirlingsays 25 Jul 14 2.43pm
Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 2.42pm I also think you should get a sense of humor. I think you should learn how to spell humour. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

25 Jul 14 2.43pm

Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 2.42pm

I also think you should get a sense of humor.

I think you should learn how to spell humour.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ghosteagle 25 Jul 14 2.46pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 2.43pm Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 2.42pm I also think you should get a sense of humor. I think you should learn how to spell humour. Damn american spell-check.
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ghosteagle

25 Jul 14 2.46pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 2.43pm

Quote ghosteagle at 25 Jul 2014 2.42pm

I also think you should get a sense of humor.

I think you should learn how to spell humour.

Damn american spell-check.

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serial thriller The Promised Land 25 Jul 14 3.33pm
So, this is a thing. [Link] If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 25 Jul 14 3.33pm

Send a Private Message to serial thriller

So, this is a thing.

[Link]

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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davidpercival Croydon 25 Jul 14 3.54pm
What's in it for Israel is peace. At the moment they spend huge amounts on weapons (although the US gives them 90% of them) and much of what could be there labour force is in the Army. If they are not actually at war they are getting ready for it, as well as the distortion of their society caused by oppressing millions of other people. A country which occupies others cannot itself be truly free. At the moment they are like white South Africa, shunned by most of the rest of the world. If they want to be a respected country like any other, they must stop their oppression. Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 1.11pm Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.53pm Stirling (Correctly spelt I trust) - As you have raised a new topic, I think that breaches our ceasefire agreement and I can comment. Let me get this right. You admit the Israeli settlements are illegal yet you say they can only be expected to give them up as part of a legal process? Yes.....The realistic alternative being? Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.53pm It is rather as if you got mugged in the street and the thief said you can only get your property back if you take it through the Courts and you will have to make concessions to do it? If someone mugs you in the street then unless you can win that property back there and then yes.....The only way you get it back is through the courts. Whether or not there will be concessions on the illegal settlements is a matter for negotiations on the two state solution. A two state solution would involve transitional wars within both states to implement it......The moderates within both states would have to fight and beat their own to implement it. It is the only way. Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.53pm I think all this defending Israel is causing you to lose contact with rational thinking. Surely the starting point is Israel saying they will give up the stolen land and that they are prepared to negotiate ordinary relations between states with whatever government the Palestinian people chose to elect. And the motivation for Israel to do that is? There is no point giving land and a state back to an enemy which is dedicated to wiping you out....Has a constitution that says it is at war and continually fires rockets....Any break being only an opportunity to grow stronger. Sorry.....tell me what's in it for Israel? If someone declares permanent war on you do you treat them fairly and enable them to grow stronger then? Any peace with the Palestinians cannot involve Hamas.....The right in Israel only have power from the ballot box....Israel's constitution means peace is possible.....Hamas's doesn't. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 1.13pm)
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davidpercival

Croydon 25 Jul 14 3.54pm

What's in it for Israel is peace. At the moment they spend huge amounts on weapons (although the US gives them 90% of them) and much of what could be there labour force is in the Army. If they are not actually at war they are getting ready for it, as well as the distortion of their society caused by oppressing millions of other people. A country which occupies others cannot itself be truly free.

At the moment they are like white South Africa, shunned by most of the rest of the world.

If they want to be a respected country like any other, they must stop their oppression.

Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 1.11pm

Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.53pm

Stirling (Correctly spelt I trust) - As you have raised a new topic, I think that breaches our ceasefire agreement and I can comment.

Let me get this right. You admit the Israeli settlements are illegal yet you say they can only be expected to give them up as part of a legal process?

Yes.....The realistic alternative being?

Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.53pm

It is rather as if you got mugged in the street and the thief said you can only get your property back if you take it through the Courts and you will have to make concessions to do it?

If someone mugs you in the street then unless you can win that property back there and then yes.....The only way you get it back is through the courts.

Whether or not there will be concessions on the illegal settlements is a matter for negotiations on the two state solution.

A two state solution would involve transitional wars within both states to implement it......The moderates within both states would have to fight and beat their own to implement it.

It is the only way.

Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.53pm

I think all this defending Israel is causing you to lose contact with rational thinking. Surely the starting point is Israel saying they will give up the stolen land and that they are prepared to negotiate ordinary relations between states with whatever government the Palestinian people chose to elect.

And the motivation for Israel to do that is?

There is no point giving land and a state back to an enemy which is dedicated to wiping you out....Has a constitution that says it is at war and continually fires rockets....Any break being only an opportunity to grow stronger.

Sorry.....tell me what's in it for Israel?

If someone declares permanent war on you do you treat them fairly and enable them to grow stronger then?

Any peace with the Palestinians cannot involve Hamas.....The right in Israel only have power from the ballot box....Israel's constitution means peace is possible.....Hamas's doesn't.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 1.13pm)

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davidpercival Croydon 25 Jul 14 3.57pm
I think you misread the discussion. It was in relation to whether something called Palestine actually exists because Mr Funt said it doesn't. I was trying to show that it does and that it has always existed. In a strange unintended way you have proved my point but it might be an idea to read the thread before you jump in. Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 2.26pm Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.58pm So how come Britain had a mandate from the UN to govern a place called Palestine? The fact that Israel declared it no longer existed doesn't mean it doesn't. Even right wing Israelis (i.e. nearly all of them) don't maintain the fiction that Palestine doesn't exist any more. That seems to make you even more right wing than them, which takes some doing. The same right that gave the Ottomans a mandate. The same right that gave the Romans a mandate. The same right that gave the Persians a mandate. And so on. Right is might. Might is why you sit living a comfortable existence typing this on a keyboard. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 2.27pm)
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davidpercival

Croydon 25 Jul 14 3.57pm

I think you misread the discussion. It was in relation to whether something called Palestine actually exists because Mr Funt said it doesn't.

I was trying to show that it does and that it has always existed.

In a strange unintended way you have proved my point but it might be an idea to read the thread before you jump in.

Quote Stirlingsays at 25 Jul 2014 2.26pm

Quote davidpercival at 25 Jul 2014 12.58pm

The same right that gave the Ottomans a mandate.

The same right that gave the Romans a mandate.

The same right that gave the Persians a mandate.

And so on.

Right is might.

Might is why you sit living a comfortable existence typing this on a keyboard.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2014 2.27pm)

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elgrande bedford 25 Jul 14 5.00pm
I do not know enough about the situation in Palestine/Israel to make any comments. And also I have some sympathy for both sides. I know my Father was sent there after the second world war before he was de-mobbed. But one thing that does puzzle me,if all the Jihadist that are in Iraq/syria,why are none of them In Gazza fighting with the Palestinians. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 25 Jul 14 5.00pm

I do not know enough about the situation in Palestine/Israel to make any comments.
And also I have some sympathy for both sides.
I know my Father was sent there after the second world war before he was de-mobbed.
But one thing that does puzzle me,if all the Jihadist that are in Iraq/syria,why are none of them In Gazza fighting with the Palestinians.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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