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Effects of Austerity Cuts part 58

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 20 May 13 9.58pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 20 May 2013 9.44pm

Quote chris123 at 20 May 2013 9.31pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 May 2013 9.18pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 20 May 2013 9.11pm

Any response to my reply to your original post Nick? Like I say, it's easy to slam the Tories for the cuts but a bit more difficult to have a feasible solution.


What asking for solutions- you quite liked my housebuilding one.


Why is all the talk of cuts and austerity when it should be about jobs and growth?

Read [Link]


FTSE 100 closed at a 12 year high.

And how does that benefit you and me?


It's good news for pension funds who are the main investors in the FTSE 100, the 250 and 350 are up too.

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 21 May 13 6.46pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote Penge Eagle at 17 May 2013 10.47am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 5.23pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 11.09am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 6.26am

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 1.01am

This is just embarrassing from Gusset! Your cut and pastes are getting worse.

Oh and what is the solution to austerity then? Spend and borrow even more money we dont have? I see the socialist Hollande doing well with France's economy...


Get your head out of the sand. Austerity isn't working.

What is your solution?

A hypothetical idea-sorry if it is a bit simplistic...

Currently the rate of interest for the government to borrow on a 15 year loan is 2.43%. Therefore, it would cost the government £24.3 million a year in repayments if it borrowed £1bn.

In the north west, new homes for social housing cost about £120,000 to build. With £1bn you could build 8,330 houses.

If the rent for each house was set at about £5,500 a year (affordable) then the total income would be £45.8m per year, a surplus of £21.5m on the repayments. Over 15 years, this would amount to a surplus of around £322m.

Of course you have to take inflation into account, say 2% a year - the £1bn would devalue by 2% a year meaning after 15 years the original loan of £1bn would actually be worth about 30% less than it is today. So we would repay the equivalent of about £666m.

Of course people are needed to build the houses, this will take people off of benefits, If the average amount of benefits is £100 a week (jsa and housing benefit) it amounts to £5200 a year. If the same person were to earn an average wage of £22k a year building the houses, then they would pay around £3500 Tax and NI a year. So the public purse will make a gain of about £8700 a year from that person who is not receiving benefit and paying taxes.

Multiply this by the number of people taken off benefits to build the houses (say 500 for arguments sake) and you now have £4.35m a year into the public purse. Of course with more money, these people will buy more goods and services which means more tax paid.

Additionally, you would have companies supplying the goods and contracts to build the houses, their profits would increase with additional corporation tax to pay.

So not only do we get people off of benefits and into work, we save on benefits and generate more tax but we also go some way to solving the housing crisis, especially if this model is repeated around the country.


I like this, it shows you are coming up with solutions here.

Flaws for me are... The key is how do you persuade somebody to come off welfare to build the houses if their income from benefits is enough for them to sit on the sofa instead of lumbering bricks about? Therefore, you would have to agree with the reforming of benefits (ie cutting it to those who are fit to work) in order to incentivise them to do it. I'd stay on my sofa! What if you can't persuade these guys to work, then your whole idea is screwed.

The construction of houses IS a good way of getting the economy moving. Currently the government are right to adopt a few schemes that helps people fund deposits which ensures new builds are actually completed and they can build more. The trickle down effect of new construction is very, very good for the economy. This way, the govt only has to fund 20% of mortgage deposits, while your scheme has them funding 100% of it which means far less houses being built. So this is one scheme that would work for Osbourne if done effectively.

PS This govt money to build the homes has been largely made up from 'evil' corporations.


The biggest one for me is that he's based it on interest only.

 


Optimistic as ever

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 May 13 7.14pm

Quote Stuk at 21 May 2013 6.46pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 17 May 2013 10.47am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 5.23pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 11.09am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 6.26am

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 1.01am

This is just embarrassing from Gusset! Your cut and pastes are getting worse.

Oh and what is the solution to austerity then? Spend and borrow even more money we dont have? I see the socialist Hollande doing well with France's economy...


Get your head out of the sand. Austerity isn't working.

What is your solution?

A hypothetical idea-sorry if it is a bit simplistic...

Currently the rate of interest for the government to borrow on a 15 year loan is 2.43%. Therefore, it would cost the government £24.3 million a year in repayments if it borrowed £1bn.

In the north west, new homes for social housing cost about £120,000 to build. With £1bn you could build 8,330 houses.

If the rent for each house was set at about £5,500 a year (affordable) then the total income would be £45.8m per year, a surplus of £21.5m on the repayments. Over 15 years, this would amount to a surplus of around £322m.

Of course you have to take inflation into account, say 2% a year - the £1bn would devalue by 2% a year meaning after 15 years the original loan of £1bn would actually be worth about 30% less than it is today. So we would repay the equivalent of about £666m.

Of course people are needed to build the houses, this will take people off of benefits, If the average amount of benefits is £100 a week (jsa and housing benefit) it amounts to £5200 a year. If the same person were to earn an average wage of £22k a year building the houses, then they would pay around £3500 Tax and NI a year. So the public purse will make a gain of about £8700 a year from that person who is not receiving benefit and paying taxes.

Multiply this by the number of people taken off benefits to build the houses (say 500 for arguments sake) and you now have £4.35m a year into the public purse. Of course with more money, these people will buy more goods and services which means more tax paid.

Additionally, you would have companies supplying the goods and contracts to build the houses, their profits would increase with additional corporation tax to pay.

So not only do we get people off of benefits and into work, we save on benefits and generate more tax but we also go some way to solving the housing crisis, especially if this model is repeated around the country.


I like this, it shows you are coming up with solutions here.

Flaws for me are... The key is how do you persuade somebody to come off welfare to build the houses if their income from benefits is enough for them to sit on the sofa instead of lumbering bricks about? Therefore, you would have to agree with the reforming of benefits (ie cutting it to those who are fit to work) in order to incentivise them to do it. I'd stay on my sofa! What if you can't persuade these guys to work, then your whole idea is screwed.

The construction of houses IS a good way of getting the economy moving. Currently the government are right to adopt a few schemes that helps people fund deposits which ensures new builds are actually completed and they can build more. The trickle down effect of new construction is very, very good for the economy. This way, the govt only has to fund 20% of mortgage deposits, while your scheme has them funding 100% of it which means far less houses being built. So this is one scheme that would work for Osbourne if done effectively.

PS This govt money to build the homes has been largely made up from 'evil' corporations.


The biggest one for me is that he's based it on interest only.

How would you tweak it then?

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 21 May 13 7.55pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 21 May 2013 7.14pm

Quote Stuk at 21 May 2013 6.46pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 17 May 2013 10.47am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 5.23pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 11.09am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 6.26am

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 1.01am

This is just embarrassing from Gusset! Your cut and pastes are getting worse.

Oh and what is the solution to austerity then? Spend and borrow even more money we dont have? I see the socialist Hollande doing well with France's economy...


Get your head out of the sand. Austerity isn't working.

What is your solution?

A hypothetical idea-sorry if it is a bit simplistic...

Currently the rate of interest for the government to borrow on a 15 year loan is 2.43%. Therefore, it would cost the government £24.3 million a year in repayments if it borrowed £1bn.

In the north west, new homes for social housing cost about £120,000 to build. With £1bn you could build 8,330 houses.

If the rent for each house was set at about £5,500 a year (affordable) then the total income would be £45.8m per year, a surplus of £21.5m on the repayments. Over 15 years, this would amount to a surplus of around £322m.

Of course you have to take inflation into account, say 2% a year - the £1bn would devalue by 2% a year meaning after 15 years the original loan of £1bn would actually be worth about 30% less than it is today. So we would repay the equivalent of about £666m.

Of course people are needed to build the houses, this will take people off of benefits, If the average amount of benefits is £100 a week (jsa and housing benefit) it amounts to £5200 a year. If the same person were to earn an average wage of £22k a year building the houses, then they would pay around £3500 Tax and NI a year. So the public purse will make a gain of about £8700 a year from that person who is not receiving benefit and paying taxes.

Multiply this by the number of people taken off benefits to build the houses (say 500 for arguments sake) and you now have £4.35m a year into the public purse. Of course with more money, these people will buy more goods and services which means more tax paid.

Additionally, you would have companies supplying the goods and contracts to build the houses, their profits would increase with additional corporation tax to pay.

So not only do we get people off of benefits and into work, we save on benefits and generate more tax but we also go some way to solving the housing crisis, especially if this model is repeated around the country.


I like this, it shows you are coming up with solutions here.

Flaws for me are... The key is how do you persuade somebody to come off welfare to build the houses if their income from benefits is enough for them to sit on the sofa instead of lumbering bricks about? Therefore, you would have to agree with the reforming of benefits (ie cutting it to those who are fit to work) in order to incentivise them to do it. I'd stay on my sofa! What if you can't persuade these guys to work, then your whole idea is screwed.

The construction of houses IS a good way of getting the economy moving. Currently the government are right to adopt a few schemes that helps people fund deposits which ensures new builds are actually completed and they can build more. The trickle down effect of new construction is very, very good for the economy. This way, the govt only has to fund 20% of mortgage deposits, while your scheme has them funding 100% of it which means far less houses being built. So this is one scheme that would work for Osbourne if done effectively.

PS This govt money to build the homes has been largely made up from 'evil' corporations.


The biggest one for me is that he's based it on interest only.

How would you tweak it then?


Compute it with capital repayment?

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 21 May 13 9.49pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote chris123 at 21 May 2013 7.55pm

Quote nickgusset at 21 May 2013 7.14pm

Quote Stuk at 21 May 2013 6.46pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 17 May 2013 10.47am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 5.23pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 11.09am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 6.26am

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 1.01am

This is just embarrassing from Gusset! Your cut and pastes are getting worse.

Oh and what is the solution to austerity then? Spend and borrow even more money we dont have? I see the socialist Hollande doing well with France's economy...


Get your head out of the sand. Austerity isn't working.

What is your solution?

A hypothetical idea-sorry if it is a bit simplistic...

Currently the rate of interest for the government to borrow on a 15 year loan is 2.43%. Therefore, it would cost the government £24.3 million a year in repayments if it borrowed £1bn.

In the north west, new homes for social housing cost about £120,000 to build. With £1bn you could build 8,330 houses.

If the rent for each house was set at about £5,500 a year (affordable) then the total income would be £45.8m per year, a surplus of £21.5m on the repayments. Over 15 years, this would amount to a surplus of around £322m.

Of course you have to take inflation into account, say 2% a year - the £1bn would devalue by 2% a year meaning after 15 years the original loan of £1bn would actually be worth about 30% less than it is today. So we would repay the equivalent of about £666m.

Of course people are needed to build the houses, this will take people off of benefits, If the average amount of benefits is £100 a week (jsa and housing benefit) it amounts to £5200 a year. If the same person were to earn an average wage of £22k a year building the houses, then they would pay around £3500 Tax and NI a year. So the public purse will make a gain of about £8700 a year from that person who is not receiving benefit and paying taxes.

Multiply this by the number of people taken off benefits to build the houses (say 500 for arguments sake) and you now have £4.35m a year into the public purse. Of course with more money, these people will buy more goods and services which means more tax paid.

Additionally, you would have companies supplying the goods and contracts to build the houses, their profits would increase with additional corporation tax to pay.

So not only do we get people off of benefits and into work, we save on benefits and generate more tax but we also go some way to solving the housing crisis, especially if this model is repeated around the country.

I like this, it shows you are coming up with solutions here.

Flaws for me are... The key is how do you persuade somebody to come off welfare to build the houses if their income from benefits is enough for them to sit on the sofa instead of lumbering bricks about? Therefore, you would have to agree with the reforming of benefits (ie cutting it to those who are fit to work) in order to incentivise them to do it. I'd stay on my sofa! What if you can't persuade these guys to work, then your whole idea is screwed.

The construction of houses IS a good way of getting the economy moving. Currently the government are right to adopt a few schemes that helps people fund deposits which ensures new builds are actually completed and they can build more. The trickle down effect of new construction is very, very good for the economy. This way, the govt only has to fund 20% of mortgage deposits, while your scheme has them funding 100% of it which means far less houses being built. So this is one scheme that would work for Osbourne if done effectively.

PS This govt money to build the homes has been largely made up from 'evil' corporations.


The biggest one for me is that he's based it on interest only.

How would you tweak it then?


Compute it with capital repayment?

Exactly.

Which, sadly nick, then throws all your figures out of the window. You haven't paid back the billion.

Not too mention you haven't accounted for planning costs, infrastructure etc and have based all the income on being private tenants and a rental only scheme.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View Penge Eagle's Profile Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 21 May 13 9.55pm Send a Private Message to Penge Eagle Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Penge Eagle as a friend

Typical of Nick and all the reading he does from left wing propaganda - no economic solutions! Easy to bleat on about cuts and evil corporations though.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 May 13 10.48pm

Quote Stuk at 21 May 2013 9.49pm

Quote chris123 at 21 May 2013 7.55pm

Quote nickgusset at 21 May 2013 7.14pm

Quote Stuk at 21 May 2013 6.46pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 17 May 2013 10.47am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 5.23pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 11.09am

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2013 6.26am

Quote Penge Eagle at 16 May 2013 1.01am

This is just embarrassing from Gusset! Your cut and pastes are getting worse.

Oh and what is the solution to austerity then? Spend and borrow even more money we dont have? I see the socialist Hollande doing well with France's economy...


Get your head out of the sand. Austerity isn't working.

What is your solution?

A hypothetical idea-sorry if it is a bit simplistic...

Currently the rate of interest for the government to borrow on a 15 year loan is 2.43%. Therefore, it would cost the government £24.3 million a year in repayments if it borrowed £1bn.

In the north west, new homes for social housing cost about £120,000 to build. With £1bn you could build 8,330 houses.

If the rent for each house was set at about £5,500 a year (affordable) then the total income would be £45.8m per year, a surplus of £21.5m on the repayments. Over 15 years, this would amount to a surplus of around £322m.

Of course you have to take inflation into account, say 2% a year - the £1bn would devalue by 2% a year meaning after 15 years the original loan of £1bn would actually be worth about 30% less than it is today. So we would repay the equivalent of about £666m.

Of course people are needed to build the houses, this will take people off of benefits, If the average amount of benefits is £100 a week (jsa and housing benefit) it amounts to £5200 a year. If the same person were to earn an average wage of £22k a year building the houses, then they would pay around £3500 Tax and NI a year. So the public purse will make a gain of about £8700 a year from that person who is not receiving benefit and paying taxes.

Multiply this by the number of people taken off benefits to build the houses (say 500 for arguments sake) and you now have £4.35m a year into the public purse. Of course with more money, these people will buy more goods and services which means more tax paid.

Additionally, you would have companies supplying the goods and contracts to build the houses, their profits would increase with additional corporation tax to pay.

So not only do we get people off of benefits and into work, we save on benefits and generate more tax but we also go some way to solving the housing crisis, especially if this model is repeated around the country.

I like this, it shows you are coming up with solutions here.

Flaws for me are... The key is how do you persuade somebody to come off welfare to build the houses if their income from benefits is enough for them to sit on the sofa instead of lumbering bricks about? Therefore, you would have to agree with the reforming of benefits (ie cutting it to those who are fit to work) in order to incentivise them to do it. I'd stay on my sofa! What if you can't persuade these guys to work, then your whole idea is screwed.

The construction of houses IS a good way of getting the economy moving. Currently the government are right to adopt a few schemes that helps people fund deposits which ensures new builds are actually completed and they can build more. The trickle down effect of new construction is very, very good for the economy. This way, the govt only has to fund 20% of mortgage deposits, while your scheme has them funding 100% of it which means far less houses being built. So this is one scheme that would work for Osbourne if done effectively.

PS This govt money to build the homes has been largely made up from 'evil' corporations.


The biggest one for me is that he's based it on interest only.

How would you tweak it then?


Compute it with capital repayment?

Exactly.

Which, sadly nick, then throws all your figures out of the window. You haven't paid back the billion.

Not too mention you haven't accounted for planning costs, infrastructure etc and have based all the income on being private tenants and a rental only scheme.

But are the government still not borrowing more than a couple of years ago? Where is that money going? That will still need to be paid back. At least if we borrowed to invest we'd get a return.
Not all of the occupiers need to be tenants, some of the housing could be sold. We do need to solve the housing crisis somehow.

On the subject of house sales and the economy, I read today that house prices and sales activity are rising. However I also read that although it is due to Osborne's intervention, he may be just creating an asset 'bubble' just in time for the next election. Remember when Lawson pre-announced the end of double MIRAS it ‘bore fruit’ in the short term but then triggered a crash. Is Osborne just bringing forward demand in the same way?

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 23 May 13 10.20pm

Quote chris123 at 20 May 2013 9.31pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 May 2013 9.18pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 20 May 2013 9.11pm

Any response to my reply to your original post Nick? Like I say, it's easy to slam the Tories for the cuts but a bit more difficult to have a feasible solution.


What asking for solutions- you quite liked my housebuilding one.


Why is all the talk of cuts and austerity when it should be about jobs and growth?

Read [Link]


FTSE 100 closed at a 12 year high.

...and is on it's way down again after fears that the u.s are going to cut back on quantitive easing.


What I find ridiculous is that (nearly) everyone is in thrall to the economists forecasts and advice, even though they were the ones who didn't see the s***storm coming.

 

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 24 May 13 1.33am Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 23 May 2013 10.20pm

Quote chris123 at 20 May 2013 9.31pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 May 2013 9.18pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 20 May 2013 9.11pm

Any response to my reply to your original post Nick? Like I say, it's easy to slam the Tories for the cuts but a bit more difficult to have a feasible solution.


What asking for solutions- you quite liked my housebuilding one.


Why is all the talk of cuts and austerity when it should be about jobs and growth?

Read [Link]


FTSE 100 closed at a 12 year high.

...and is on it's way down again after fears that the u.s are going to cut back on quantitive easing.


What I find ridiculous is that (nearly) everyone is in thrall to the economists forecasts and advice, even though they were the ones who didn't see the s***storm coming.


.......and yet your the first one to post a (Link) when say Interest Rates go up 0.00000000000001% under these nasty Tories.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 10 Jul 14 9.58pm

Austerity is working- debt's up and the deficit is growing again...
[Link]

Keep up the good work George.

 

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View BobRoberts's Profile BobRoberts Flag Croydon 10 Jul 14 10.10pm Send a Private Message to BobRoberts Add BobRoberts as a friend

Nick,

I really hope you don't teach economics. You should try to understand the difference between trade deficits, government deficits and government debts. I expect we are importing more as the economy is growing.

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 10 Jul 14 10.10pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 10 Jul 2014 9.58pm

Austerity is working- debt's up and the deficit is growing again...
[Link]

Keep up the good work George.


This is excellent!

You don't know the difference between the trade deficit and the budget deficit!!!

You spout all this stuff and haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You didn't know the difference between deficit reduction and debt reduction and now this.

May I suggest that you try understanding what you are banging on about before you post it here?

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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