Margaret Thatcher

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 10 Apr 13 11.42am
Quote nickgusset at 10 Apr 2013 11.17am Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 10 Apr 2013 11.03am Quote nickgusset at 10 Apr 2013 10.48am She sold off our industry and spunked the money. What industry? we were sodding well bankrupt (all but)! Yes she privatised British Gas etc but that's hardly selling off our industry. British Steel was shagged with Labour only keeping Steel works open for political reasons. You make me laugh, you moan about people believing the media but all you post is soundbites Public debt in the 80's was below 50% of GDP, the EU set the maximum at 60% when Thatch signed the Maastricht treaty in 92, so by European terms we were well within acceptable limits. Hardly bankrupt. In fact, we embarked on building the welfare state when our debt was 247% of GDP after ww2, so that is a weak argument. 1970s IMF Crisis - $3.9 Billion Devaluation of the pound - potential $5.9 billion loan from the yanks three day week Power cuts Red Robbo Ł200 million in lost production due to walkouts in a little over a year. British Steel haemorrhaging money - over Ł800 million during the 70s, but that's OK because it kept the northerners happy. Yep, evertything was just dandy when maggie took over. But as you rightly say Nick in the 80s things were much better, I am glad that you acknowledge that the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 10 Apr 13 11.42am

Quote nickgusset at 10 Apr 2013 11.17am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 10 Apr 2013 11.03am

Quote nickgusset at 10 Apr 2013 10.48am

She sold off our industry and spunked the money.

What industry? we were sodding well bankrupt (all but)!

Yes she privatised British Gas etc but that's hardly selling off our industry. British Steel was shagged with Labour only keeping Steel works open for political reasons.

You make me laugh, you moan about people believing the media but all you post is soundbites

Public debt in the 80's was below 50% of GDP, the EU set the maximum at 60% when Thatch signed the Maastricht treaty in 92, so by European terms we were well within acceptable limits. Hardly bankrupt. In fact, we embarked on building the welfare state when our debt was 247% of GDP after ww2, so that is a weak argument.

1970s
IMF Crisis - $3.9 Billion
Devaluation of the pound - potential $5.9 billion loan from the yanks
three day week
Power cuts
Red Robbo Ł200 million in lost production due to walkouts in a little over a year.
British Steel haemorrhaging money - over Ł800 million during the 70s, but that's OK because it kept the northerners happy.

Yep, evertything was just dandy when maggie took over.

But as you rightly say Nick in the 80s things were much better, I am glad that you acknowledge that

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Kermit8 Hevon 10 Apr 13 11.43am
Thanks Bin for that: Another unforgivable act from Thatcher's time: Allowing the targeting of underage drinkers so that big business could get some of that teenage disposable income. I don't think anyone could disagree that that was anything but bad for our society and still suffer its effects today. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 10 Apr 13 11.43am

Thanks Bin for that:

Another unforgivable act from Thatcher's time: Allowing the targeting of underage drinkers so that big business could get some of that teenage disposable income.

I don't think anyone could disagree that that was anything but bad for our society and still suffer its effects today.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 10 Apr 13 11.45am
Quote Kermit8 at 10 Apr 2013 11.43am Another unforgivable act from Thatcher's time: Allowing the targeting of underage drinkers so that big business could get some of that teenage disposable income. Absolute and utter Balderdash.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 10 Apr 13 11.45am

Quote Kermit8 at 10 Apr 2013 11.43am

Another unforgivable act from Thatcher's time: Allowing the targeting of underage drinkers so that big business could get some of that teenage disposable income.

Absolute and utter Balderdash.

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codeg73 Purley 10 Apr 13 11.47am
Quote Bin Liner at 10 Apr 2013 11.35am Quote codeg73 at 10 Apr 2013 11.02am Quote Kermit8 at 08 Apr 2013 5.14pm Quote We are goin up! at 08 Apr 2013 5.13pm Quote Kermit8 at 08 Apr 2013 5.12pm Quote nickgusset at 08 Apr 2013 5.04pm Hopefully her legacy will die with her. We are still suffering from her menage a trois with Reagan and neo liberalism. Exactly. Which is why the Lady provokes still 23 years after being evicted from No.10. See that nasty unemployable anti-social chav drinking too many alcopops and holding a nasty pitbull? It didn't exist in early 1979. But, by early 1989 the first crop were about to be released onto society. And her three boyfriends aren't much better. What a load of absolute rubbish! I lived it. You didn't. Haven't posted for a long while but Agree, what a load of bllocks. Get your facts straight as Two Dogs and Hooch which were the first alchopops, which didn't appear in the UK until 1995 which was 5yrs after she left and only 2yrs before Tony & WW arrived at No 10. Alcho pops were cynically created to raise revenues for the drinks companies (and also taxes) to get youngsters hooked on alcohol to counter-act the vast increase in Ecstacy, LCD, & Speed use which saw a massive downturn in alchohol consumption. Much better in government eyes to have a nation of alcoholics than drug addicts as can earn money out of them. Oh and by the way it was Very Left Leaning Labour Tony Crosland that started the closure of Grammar schools. a self-appointed guardian of the socialist conscience, who hated selective education with an arrogance possible only in one whose parents could afford to send him to public school(typical double standards Labour prck really then) bollox I'm afraid, alcopops, were appearing well into the late 80's seeing as I lived in New Malden at the time which was home to the Cambridge and Dickerage Road Estates where there were probably more bag ladies , Ciderwomen and general degenerates in the space of a couple of square miles then most London boroughs the Off Licences of The Kingston Road were doing a booming trade selling these drinks back then. Edited by Bin Liner (10 Apr 2013 11.36am) Not relying on wikipedia but worked behind a bar and recall that it was Diamond White that was drunk earlier than 1990 and that is a clear cider not an alcopop. Perhaps over use of alcohol has confused your memories
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codeg73

Purley 10 Apr 13 11.47am

Quote Bin Liner at 10 Apr 2013 11.35am

Quote codeg73 at 10 Apr 2013 11.02am

Quote Kermit8 at 08 Apr 2013 5.14pm

Quote We are goin up! at 08 Apr 2013 5.13pm

Quote Kermit8 at 08 Apr 2013 5.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 08 Apr 2013 5.04pm

Hopefully her legacy will die with her. We are still suffering from her menage a trois with Reagan and neo liberalism.

Exactly. Which is why the Lady provokes still 23 years after being evicted from No.10.

See that nasty unemployable anti-social chav drinking too many alcopops and holding a nasty pitbull?

It didn't exist in early 1979. But, by early 1989 the first crop were about to be released onto society.

And her three boyfriends aren't much better.

What a load of absolute rubbish!

I lived it. You didn't.

Haven't posted for a long while but Agree, what a load of b*llocks. Get your facts straight as Two Dogs and Hooch which were the first alchopops, which didn't appear in the UK until 1995 which was 5yrs after she left and only 2yrs before Tony & WW arrived at No 10. Alcho pops were cynically created to raise revenues for the drinks companies (and also taxes) to get youngsters hooked on alcohol to counter-act the vast increase in Ecstacy, LCD, & Speed use which saw a massive downturn in alchohol consumption. Much better in government eyes to have a nation of alcoholics than drug addicts as can earn money out of them.
Oh and by the way it was Very Left Leaning Labour Tony Crosland that started the closure of Grammar schools.
a self-appointed guardian of the socialist conscience, who hated selective education with an arrogance possible only in one whose parents could afford to send him to public school(typical double standards Labour pr*ck really then)

bollox I'm afraid, alcopops, were appearing well into the late 80's seeing as I lived in New Malden at the time which was home to the Cambridge and Dickerage Road Estates where there were probably more bag ladies , Ciderwomen and general degenerates in the space of a couple of square miles then most London boroughs the Off Licences of The Kingston Road were doing a booming trade selling these drinks back then.

Edited by Bin Liner (10 Apr 2013 11.36am)

Not relying on wikipedia but worked behind a bar and recall that it was Diamond White that was drunk earlier than 1990 and that is a clear cider not an alcopop. Perhaps over use of alcohol has confused your memories

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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 10 Apr 13 11.50am
Doesnt seem much doubt that Hooch was launched in 1995 [Link] Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)
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SloveniaDave

Tirana, Albania 10 Apr 13 11.50am

Doesnt seem much doubt that Hooch was launched in 1995

[Link]

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

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Pinky Kent 10 Apr 13 11.52am
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 10 Apr 2013 10.39am People on here criticise Cameron when he blames the last Labour government for the s*** storm we are in as they claim he has had plenty of time (less than three years) to sort it all out. On the other hand, 23 years after Maggie left office it is still acceptable to blame her for all the ills of our society. That's because her decade in office led to the realignment of British politics and a shifting of the centre of gravity to the right, hence Blair and the continuation of her legacy under New Labour. Brown was unlucky enough to be holding the ball when the wheels came off, but the fact that the Tories couldn't capitalise electorally demonstrates that people know that we'd still be in the mire whoever had been in office, because (despite all the Punch and Judy stuff across the Despatch Box) the three main parties occupy very similar (centre-right) ground and are competing on managerial competence. We're stuck with this for years to come, unfortunately.
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Pinky

Kent 10 Apr 13 11.52am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 10 Apr 2013 10.39am

People on here criticise Cameron when he blames the last Labour government for the s*** storm we are in as they claim he has had plenty of time (less than three years) to sort it all out.

On the other hand, 23 years after Maggie left office it is still acceptable to blame her for all the ills of our society.

That's because her decade in office led to the realignment of British politics and a shifting of the centre of gravity to the right, hence Blair and the continuation of her legacy under New Labour. Brown was unlucky enough to be holding the ball when the wheels came off, but the fact that the Tories couldn't capitalise electorally demonstrates that people know that we'd still be in the mire whoever had been in office, because (despite all the Punch and Judy stuff across the Despatch Box) the three main parties occupy very similar (centre-right) ground and are competing on managerial competence. We're stuck with this for years to come, unfortunately.

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crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 10 Apr 13 11.55am
Quote chris123 at 10 Apr 2013 7.54am Quote crystal balls at 09 Apr 2013 11.38pm Quote chris123 at 09 Apr 2013 10.56pm Quote crystal balls at 09 Apr 2013 10.11pm Quote chris123 at 09 Apr 2013 8.07pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Apr 2013 6.26pm Quote Willo at 09 Apr 2013 6.23pm Quote If you didnt know who she was but saw the list of 'anti's' getting their two penneth in over her corpse then you would have a natural instinct to be on her side purely because of the odious collection lining up I ask - Where does it come from, this vitriloic loathing? Anti-Thatcherites tell you that it’s because she closed down the old industries. (She didn’t, of course, she simply stopped obliging everyone else to support them.) Yet it must surely be patently obvious by now that nothing would have kept the dockyards and coalmines and steel mills open. A similar process of de-industrialisation has unfolded in every other Western European country, and the only parties that still talk of “reviving our manufacturing base” are Respect, the Scottish Socialists and the BNP !!!! RIP Willo Its not so much the closing down, its the manner in which they were closed down, and the population, few of whom voted conservative, were just left to deal with the fact that employment was ripped out almost overnight, leaving hundreds chasing single jobs. Uneconomic pits have routinely closed since the war, why should uneconomic mining be subsidised when no other industry was, and when from the 1960's we had the benefit ofNorth Sea oil and gas? Simply untrue! Although some exploration of oil and gas fields went on from 60s, the Brent field in UK waters wasn't even discovered until 1971, and the first oil wasn't pumped (at a relatively modest level initially) from the Argyl field until 1975. Revenue from the taxation of oil commenced in a significant way from 1980 onwards. The revenue from oil and the proceeds of privatisations could have been used b Hesletine to regenerate the country, but were instead used to fund income tax cuts for the higher paid instead. Edited by Moose (09 Apr 2013 10.24pm) West Sole came onstream in 1967. The income to the exchequer from West Sole was insignificant, as was the amount of gas it produced. Oil and gas revenues from licensing and taxation only made any difference from 1980 onward. The comment was that what I'd said was simply untrue, it was not untrue at all, and my point stands. The key word in your post is "benefit". I would suggest that it is untrue to say that we had the "benefit" of north sea oil and gas. There were in the 60's and 70's no actual material benefits of north sea oil and gas for the UK. Oil wasn't produced in any quantities as the technology for doing so at the depth of the north sea was in it's infancy, and many many lives were lost in securing what little production there was on line at that time. Gas was being produced in greater quantity, but as almost all gas appliances had to be converted to be able to use natural gas at great cost, and relatively few people had gas central heating at that time, the benefits to consumers and the exchequer were, at best,at the margin. I used to be immortal
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crystal balls

The Garden of Earthly Delights 10 Apr 13 11.55am

Quote chris123 at 10 Apr 2013 7.54am

Quote crystal balls at 09 Apr 2013 11.38pm

Quote chris123 at 09 Apr 2013 10.56pm

Quote crystal balls at 09 Apr 2013 10.11pm

Quote chris123 at 09 Apr 2013 8.07pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Apr 2013 6.26pm

Quote Willo at 09 Apr 2013 6.23pm

Quote

If you didnt know who she was but saw the list of 'anti's' getting their two penneth in over her corpse then you would have a natural instinct to be on her side purely because of the odious collection lining up

I ask - Where does it come from, this vitriloic loathing? Anti-Thatcherites tell you that it’s because she closed down the old industries. (She didn’t, of course, she simply stopped obliging everyone else to support them.)

Yet it must surely be patently obvious by now that nothing would have kept the dockyards and coalmines and steel mills open. A similar process of de-industrialisation has unfolded in every other Western European country, and the only parties that still talk of “reviving our manufacturing base” are Respect, the Scottish Socialists and the BNP !!!!

RIP

Willo

Its not so much the closing down, its the manner in which they were closed down, and the population, few of whom voted conservative, were just left to deal with the fact that employment was ripped out almost overnight, leaving hundreds chasing single jobs.

Uneconomic pits have routinely closed since the war, why should uneconomic mining be subsidised when no other industry was, and when from the 1960's we had the benefit ofNorth Sea oil and gas?

Simply untrue! Although some exploration of oil and gas fields went on from 60s, the Brent field in UK waters wasn't even discovered until 1971, and the first oil wasn't pumped (at a relatively modest level initially) from the Argyl field until 1975. Revenue from the taxation of oil commenced in a significant way from 1980 onwards.

The revenue from oil and the proceeds of privatisations could have been used b Hesletine to regenerate the country, but were instead used to fund income tax cuts for the higher paid instead.

Edited by Moose (09 Apr 2013 10.24pm)

West Sole came onstream in 1967.

The income to the exchequer from West Sole was insignificant, as was the amount of gas it produced. Oil and gas revenues from licensing and taxation only made any difference from 1980 onward.

The comment was that what I'd said was simply untrue, it was not untrue at all, and my point stands.

The key word in your post is "benefit". I would suggest that it is untrue to say that we had the "benefit" of north sea oil and gas.

There were in the 60's and 70's no actual material benefits of north sea oil and gas for the UK. Oil wasn't produced in any quantities as the technology for doing so at the depth of the north sea was in it's infancy, and many many lives were lost in securing what little production there was on line at that time.

Gas was being produced in greater quantity, but as almost all gas appliances had to be converted to be able to use natural gas at great cost, and relatively few people had gas central heating at that time, the benefits to consumers and the exchequer were, at best,at the margin.

I used to be immortal

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 10 Apr 13 12.04pm
she was an inspiring leader. No-one fcked with her. Except Dennis. He did it twice And we are still going to have to endure Mark and Carol for some time to come. Difficult to imagine how 2 succesful people could produce such useless offspring , who merely cling to their parents coattails. I suppose that's the upper classes for you,. . . . "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 10 Apr 13 12.04pm

Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly

she was an inspiring leader. No-one fcked with her.

Except Dennis.

He did it twice

And we are still going to have to endure Mark and Carol for some time to come.

Difficult to imagine how 2 succesful people could produce such useless offspring , who merely cling to their parents coattails.

I suppose that's the upper classes for you,. . . .

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Bin Liner London , Southfields 10 Apr 13 12.06pm
Quote codeg73 at 10 Apr 2013 11.47am Quote Bin Liner at 10 Apr 2013 11.35am Quote codeg73 at 10 Apr 2013 11.02am Quote Kermit8 at 08 Apr 2013 5.14pm Quote We are goin up! at 08 Apr 2013 5.13pm Quote Kermit8 at 08 Apr 2013 5.12pm Quote nickgusset at 08 Apr 2013 5.04pm Hopefully her legacy will die with her. We are still suffering from her menage a trois with Reagan and neo liberalism. Exactly. Which is why the Lady provokes still 23 years after being evicted from No.10. See that nasty unemployable anti-social chav drinking too many alcopops and holding a nasty pitbull? It didn't exist in early 1979. But, by early 1989 the first crop were about to be released onto society. And her three boyfriends aren't much better. What a load of absolute rubbish! I lived it. You didn't. Haven't posted for a long while but Agree, what a load of bllocks. Get your facts straight as Two Dogs and Hooch which were the first alchopops, which didn't appear in the UK until 1995 which was 5yrs after she left and only 2yrs before Tony & WW arrived at No 10. Alcho pops were cynically created to raise revenues for the drinks companies (and also taxes) to get youngsters hooked on alcohol to counter-act the vast increase in Ecstacy, LCD, & Speed use which saw a massive downturn in alchohol consumption. Much better in government eyes to have a nation of alcoholics than drug addicts as can earn money out of them. Oh and by the way it was Very Left Leaning Labour Tony Crosland that started the closure of Grammar schools. a self-appointed guardian of the socialist conscience, who hated selective education with an arrogance possible only in one whose parents could afford to send him to public school(typical double standards Labour prck really then) bollox I'm afraid, alcopops, were appearing well into the late 80's seeing as I lived in New Malden at the time which was home to the Cambridge and Dickerage Road Estates where there were probably more bag ladies , Ciderwomen and general degenerates in the space of a couple of square miles then most London boroughs the Off Licences of The Kingston Road were doing a booming trade selling these drinks back then. Edited by Bin Liner (10 Apr 2013 11.36am) Not relying on wikipedia but worked behind a bar and recall that it was Diamond White that was drunk earlier than 1990 and that is a clear cider not an alcopop. Perhaps over use of alcohol has confused your memories IIRC, alcopops were being sold in Off Licences some time before pubs and bars began to stock them, if would go as far to say they started to appear from 1985+ the Off Licences on Kingston Road were notorious for selling these even getting people travelling form miles outside the borough . Portillo's teeth removed to boost pound Boy roasts himself in sacrifice to Chris Kelly
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Bin Liner

London , Southfields 10 Apr 13 12.06pm

Quote codeg73 at 10 Apr 2013 11.47am

Quote Bin Liner at 10 Apr 2013 11.35am

Quote codeg73 at 10 Apr 2013 11.02am

Quote Kermit8 at 08 Apr 2013 5.14pm

Quote We are goin up! at 08 Apr 2013 5.13pm

Quote Kermit8 at 08 Apr 2013 5.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 08 Apr 2013 5.04pm

Hopefully her legacy will die with her. We are still suffering from her menage a trois with Reagan and neo liberalism.

Exactly. Which is why the Lady provokes still 23 years after being evicted from No.10.

See that nasty unemployable anti-social chav drinking too many alcopops and holding a nasty pitbull?

It didn't exist in early 1979. But, by early 1989 the first crop were about to be released onto society.

And her three boyfriends aren't much better.

What a load of absolute rubbish!

I lived it. You didn't.

Edited by Bin Liner (10 Apr 2013 11.36am)

IIRC, alcopops were being sold in Off Licences some time before pubs and bars began to stock them, if would go as far to say they started to appear from 1985+ the Off Licences on Kingston Road were notorious for selling these even getting people travelling form miles outside the borough .

Portillo's teeth removed to boost pound

Boy roasts himself in sacrifice to Chris Kelly

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crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 10 Apr 13 12.08pm
Quote Forest Hillbilly at 10 Apr 2013 12.04pm she was an inspiring leader. No-one fcked with her. Except Dennis. He did it twice And we are still going to have to endure Mark and Carol for some time to come. Difficult to imagine how 2 succesful people could produce such useless offspring , who merely cling to their parents coattails. I suppose that's the upper classes for you,. . . . They are twins, so it could've been only once> "Tried it once, didn't like it". I used to be immortal
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crystal balls

The Garden of Earthly Delights 10 Apr 13 12.08pm

Quote Forest Hillbilly at 10 Apr 2013 12.04pm

she was an inspiring leader. No-one fcked with her.

Except Dennis.

He did it twice

And we are still going to have to endure Mark and Carol for some time to come.

Difficult to imagine how 2 succesful people could produce such useless offspring , who merely cling to their parents coattails.

I suppose that's the upper classes for you,. . . .

They are twins, so it could've been only once> "Tried it once, didn't like it".

I used to be immortal

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bright&wright 10 Apr 13 12.10pm
Funny how the only people you saw dancing in the street on the news reports were hippies and dykes. Sums up her haters quite nicely I think. 'We are going to make a little bit of history here’ Mr. J. Ertl.
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bright&wright

10 Apr 13 12.10pm

Funny how the only people you saw dancing in the street on the news reports were hippies and dykes.

Sums up her haters quite nicely I think.

'We are going to make a little bit of history here’ Mr. J. Ertl.

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 10 Apr 13 12.11pm
Quote Pinky at 10 Apr 2013 11.52am Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 10 Apr 2013 10.39am People on here criticise Cameron when he blames the last Labour government for the s* storm we are in as they claim he has had plenty of time (less than three years) to sort it all out. On the other hand, 23 years after Maggie left office it is still acceptable to blame her for all the ills of our society. That's because her decade in office led to the realignment of British politics and a shifting of the centre of gravity to the right, hence Blair and the continuation of her legacy under New Labour. Brown was unlucky enough to be holding the ball when the wheels came off, but the fact that the Tories couldn't capitalise electorally demonstrates that people know that we'd still be in the mire whoever had been in office, because (despite all the Punch and Judy stuff across the Despatch Box) the three main parties occupy very similar (centre-right) ground and are competing on managerial competence. We're stuck with this for years to come, unfortunately.** Because Maggie was so unsusseful? the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 10 Apr 13 12.11pm

Quote Pinky at 10 Apr 2013 11.52am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 10 Apr 2013 10.39am

People on here criticise Cameron when he blames the last Labour government for the s*** storm we are in as they claim he has had plenty of time (less than three years) to sort it all out.

On the other hand, 23 years after Maggie left office it is still acceptable to blame her for all the ills of our society.

That's because her decade in office led to the realignment of British politics and a shifting of the centre of gravity to the right, hence Blair and the continuation of her legacy under New Labour. Brown was unlucky enough to be holding the ball when the wheels came off, but the fact that the Tories couldn't capitalise electorally demonstrates that people know that we'd still be in the mire whoever had been in office, because (despite all the Punch and Judy stuff across the Despatch Box) the three main parties occupy very similar (centre-right) ground and are competing on managerial competence. We're stuck with this for years to come, unfortunately.

Because Maggie was so unsusseful?

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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