Rolf Harris

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Stirlingsays 07 Jul 14 10.03pm
Quote Mapletree at 07 Jul 2014 2.48pm I neither said the Jury's decision was right nor did I say it couldn't be questioned. I in fact said I don't have a view on his guilt and have not made up my mind, but I have made up my mind that the Jury should not be unreasonably questioned. Presumably they made up their minds in a rational way in the light of the evidence put before them. Therefore the vast likelihood is that if any of us had been on the Jury we would have come to the same conclusion. Unless we have information that the Jury did not I don't see any reason to second guess its decision. Therefore I take issue with this statement: (the Jury) had chosen to believe all the evidence they heard against him This makes it sounds as though there was a choice. I very much doubt that, otherwise the verdict would not have been unanimous. In addition, the information that was not put in front of the Jury - having been argued successfully as inadmissible by defence counsel - would have contributed to a view that Harris was guilty. If anything went wrong with this process the Jury should not be blamed. I think you hold a lot more faith in the jury system than I do.......Wasn't there a study the other year showing that a lot of them couldn't follow the evidence and just sided with those who appeared to understand. The jury were out for 38 hours.....I'm willing to accept the verdict but I'm more critical of the process than your good self. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Jul 14 10.03pm

Quote Mapletree at 07 Jul 2014 2.48pm

I neither said the Jury's decision was right nor did I say it couldn't be questioned. I in fact said I don't have a view on his guilt and have not made up my mind, but I have made up my mind that the Jury should not be unreasonably questioned.

Presumably they made up their minds in a rational way in the light of the evidence put before them. Therefore the vast likelihood is that if any of us had been on the Jury we would have come to the same conclusion. Unless we have information that the Jury did not I don't see any reason to second guess its decision.

Therefore I take issue with this statement:

(the Jury) had chosen to believe all the evidence they heard against him

This makes it sounds as though there was a choice. I very much doubt that, otherwise the verdict would not have been unanimous.

In addition, the information that was not put in front of the Jury - having been argued successfully as inadmissible by defence counsel - would have contributed to a view that Harris was guilty.

If anything went wrong with this process the Jury should not be blamed.

I think you hold a lot more faith in the jury system than I do.......Wasn't there a study the other year showing that a lot of them couldn't follow the evidence and just sided with those who appeared to understand.

The jury were out for 38 hours.....I'm willing to accept the verdict but I'm more critical of the process than your good self.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Farawayeagle Sydney 08 Jul 14 12.00am
Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jul 2014 10.03pm Quote Mapletree at 07 Jul 2014 2.48pm I neither said the Jury's decision was right nor did I say it couldn't be questioned. I in fact said I don't have a view on his guilt and have not made up my mind, but I have made up my mind that the Jury should not be unreasonably questioned. Presumably they made up their minds in a rational way in the light of the evidence put before them. Therefore the vast likelihood is that if any of us had been on the Jury we would have come to the same conclusion. Unless we have information that the Jury did not I don't see any reason to second guess its decision. Therefore I take issue with this statement: (the Jury) had chosen to believe all the evidence they heard against him This makes it sounds as though there was a choice. I very much doubt that, otherwise the verdict would not have been unanimous. In addition, the information that was not put in front of the Jury - having been argued successfully as inadmissible by defence counsel - would have contributed to a view that Harris was guilty. If anything went wrong with this process the Jury should not be blamed. I think you hold a lot more faith in the jury system than I do.......Wasn't there a study the other year showing that a lot of them couldn't follow the evidence and just sided with those who appeared to understand. The jury were out for 38 hours.....I'm willing to accept the verdict but I'm more critical of the process than your good self. My thoughts exactly. Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster Association An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon GKAS Member 54
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Farawayeagle

Sydney 08 Jul 14 12.00am

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jul 2014 10.03pm

Quote Mapletree at 07 Jul 2014 2.48pm

Therefore I take issue with this statement:

(the Jury) had chosen to believe all the evidence they heard against him

This makes it sounds as though there was a choice. I very much doubt that, otherwise the verdict would not have been unanimous.

In addition, the information that was not put in front of the Jury - having been argued successfully as inadmissible by defence counsel - would have contributed to a view that Harris was guilty.

If anything went wrong with this process the Jury should not be blamed.

The jury were out for 38 hours.....I'm willing to accept the verdict but I'm more critical of the process than your good self.

My thoughts exactly.

Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster
Association

An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club

R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon

GKAS Member 54

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Hoof Hearted 08 Jul 14 10.08am
[Link] Poor Rolf...... being a sex pest isn't always glamorous. Vanessa Feltz? EDIT: apologies Ali.... I see you've already posted this story. Edited by Hoof Hearted (08 Jul 2014 10.10am)
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Hoof Hearted 08 Jul 14 10.08am

[Link]

Poor Rolf...... being a sex pest isn't always glamorous.

Vanessa Feltz?

EDIT: apologies Ali.... I see you've already posted this story.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (08 Jul 2014 10.10am)

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Farawayeagle Sydney 09 Jul 14 11.27am
Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jul 2014 8.10am Faraway - Nine of the assaults took place between 1968 and 1985 - one on a girl aged seven or eight and the rest on teenagers between 14 and 19 according to the judgement. He was in his thirties and forties when doing this. That's definitely nonce territory. Just to define. Nonce in its medical sense. Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. Having now looked into transcripts and reports I have some reservations about this case which I lay out below. It is clear from the accusations against Harris, both before and since the case, are primarily involving women who are over the age of consent (the age of consent being between 16 to 18 depending on which country you are talking about. Most accusers seem to have been older as in the case of the various TV personalities, journalists and other random targets he seemingly had a penchant for groping. The underage accusations were: The 50 year old memory of a women from an event, at a Community Centre that the police were not able to verify for sure that he was at. (7 or 8 years old at the time) Another accusation where the victim claimed she was 14 at an event in Cambridge but it turned out to be 3 years later than she said by which time she would have been 17. An Australian women who has already sold her story to a magazine and TV show, who is reported now to be trying to get her hands on her trial transcript possibly to resell her story. This women also claimed she lost weight in the week following the attack during the event she was at. But it was later said by another witness that the venue of the "attack" was actually at the end of the week. Additionally her ex boyfriend is reported to have said she made the story up. (14 years old at the time) Finally the disputed abuse with his daughters friend. who broke up with him acrimoniously and who was obviously jealous from her comments about the housekeeper he was having an affair with after their breakup. Surely enough doubt regarding the underage stuff. She also tried to extort 25,000 pound from him. After they split up. What I am saying is that if I were convicted of child abuse on the strength of these four scenarios I would not be happy. Would you accept this level of evidence against you. It seems to me that the likelihood is that Harris was an over sexed groper who through his charisma had access to pretty women and took full advantage of it. Frequently. I am not convinced of the veracity of the under age stuff. There are too many cases in his history of adult victims i.e. in their 20's or older. He spent time with probably 10s of thousands of children over his career and yet no more child "victims" have come forward than the three questionable ones in the case against him. If he were a nonce as people keep calling him then why don't we have more accusations of small children victims appearing -- referring to child molestations by Harris. They are exclusively people over the age of consent. As i said before I was molested on a couple of ocassions by a man, when I was about 10 years old. So I have no interest in protecting a true child molester. __________________ Edited by Farawayeagle (09 Jul 2014 11.35am) Edited by Farawayeagle (09 Jul 2014 11.36am) Edited by Farawayeagle (09 Jul 2014 11.50am) Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster Association An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon GKAS Member 54
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Farawayeagle

Sydney 09 Jul 14 11.27am

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jul 2014 8.10am

Faraway - Nine of the assaults took place between 1968 and 1985 - one on a girl aged seven or eight and the rest on teenagers between 14 and 19 according to the judgement.

He was in his thirties and forties when doing this.

That's definitely nonce territory.

Just to define. Nonce in its medical sense.

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger.

Having now looked into transcripts and reports I have some reservations about this case which I lay out below.

It is clear from the accusations against Harris, both before and since the case, are primarily involving women who are over the age of consent (the age of consent being between 16 to 18 depending on which country you are talking about.

Most accusers seem to have been older as in the case of the various TV personalities, journalists and other random targets he seemingly had a penchant for groping.

The underage accusations were:

The 50 year old memory of a women from an event, at a Community Centre that the police were not able to verify for sure that he was at. (7 or 8 years old at the time)

Another accusation where the victim claimed she was 14 at an event in Cambridge but it turned out to be 3 years later than she said by which time she would have been 17.

An Australian women who has already sold her story to a magazine and TV show, who is reported now to be trying to get her hands on her trial transcript possibly to resell her story. This women also claimed she lost weight in the week following the attack during the event she was at. But it was later said by another witness that the venue of the "attack" was actually at the end of the week. Additionally her ex boyfriend is reported to have said she made the story up. (14 years old at the time)

Finally the disputed abuse with his daughters friend. who broke up with him acrimoniously and who was obviously jealous from her comments about the housekeeper he was having an affair with after their breakup. Surely enough doubt regarding the underage stuff. She also tried to extort 25,000 pound from him. After they split up.

What I am saying is that if I were convicted of child abuse on the strength of these four scenarios I would not be happy. Would you accept this level of evidence against you.

It seems to me that the likelihood is that Harris was an over sexed groper who through his charisma had access to pretty women and took full advantage of it.
Frequently.

I am not convinced of the veracity of the under age stuff. There are too many cases in his history of adult victims i.e. in their 20's or older. He spent time with probably 10s of thousands of children over his career and yet no more child "victims" have come forward than the three questionable ones in the case against him.

If he were a nonce as people keep calling him then why don't we have more accusations of small children victims appearing -- referring to child molestations by Harris. They are exclusively people over the age of consent.

As i said before I was molested on a couple of ocassions by a man, when I was about 10 years old. So I have no interest in protecting a true child molester.
__________________

Edited by Farawayeagle (09 Jul 2014 11.35am)

Edited by Farawayeagle (09 Jul 2014 11.36am)

Edited by Farawayeagle (09 Jul 2014 11.50am)

Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster
Association

An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club

R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon

GKAS Member 54

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Farawayeagle Sydney 09 Jul 14 11.34am
Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jul 2014 8.10am Faraway - Nine of the assaults took place between 1968 and 1985 - one on a girl aged seven or eight and the rest on teenagers between 14 and 19 according to the judgement. He was in his thirties and forties when doing this. That's definitely nonce territory. I was 25 and my future wife was 18 when we hooked up. Should I add nonce to my passport? Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster Association An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon GKAS Member 54
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Farawayeagle

Sydney 09 Jul 14 11.34am

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jul 2014 8.10am

Faraway - Nine of the assaults took place between 1968 and 1985 - one on a girl aged seven or eight and the rest on teenagers between 14 and 19 according to the judgement.

He was in his thirties and forties when doing this.

That's definitely nonce territory.

I was 25 and my future wife was 18 when we hooked up.

Should I add nonce to my passport?

Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster
Association

An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club

R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon

GKAS Member 54

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jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Jul 14 12.17am
Quote Farawayeagle at 09 Jul 2014 11.34am Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jul 2014 8.10am Faraway - Nine of the assaults took place between 1968 and 1985 - one on a girl aged seven or eight and the rest on teenagers between 14 and 19 according to the judgement. He was in his thirties and forties when doing this. That's definitely nonce territory. I was 25 and my future wife was 18 when we hooked up. Should I add nonce to my passport? 1 second after midnight on their sixteenth birthday and they're legal. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 10 Jul 14 12.17am

Quote Farawayeagle at 09 Jul 2014 11.34am

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jul 2014 8.10am

Faraway - Nine of the assaults took place between 1968 and 1985 - one on a girl aged seven or eight and the rest on teenagers between 14 and 19 according to the judgement.

He was in his thirties and forties when doing this.

That's definitely nonce territory.

I was 25 and my future wife was 18 when we hooked up.

Should I add nonce to my passport?

1 second after midnight on their sixteenth birthday and they're legal.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Jul 14 12.30am
Quote Farawayeagle at 09 Jul 2014 11.27am Just to define. Nonce in its medical sense. Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. Depends on whether you're going DSM-IV or V. DSM-IV lists paedophilia as relating to fantasy and obsessive sexual fantasies about children. Both DSM categories are criticised as being over inclusive, and not divisional among child sex offender types. Its also classed under a paraphilia, so realistically a paedophile would in psychiatry be exclusively sexual in preference to children. Its erroneous to classify all paedophiles as psychiatric cases, it tends to be a convenience that has grown out of how general psychiatry encounters paedophilia outside of forensic cases (such as self referrals and sexual dysfunction cases). It certainly doesn't compensate to cases of child sex murders which tend to fit models of psychopathy more than paraphilia. Its dangerous in many ways to view child sex offenders as mental ill individuals, without reviewing the context and patterns of their behaviour in relation to children. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 10 Jul 14 12.30am

Quote Farawayeagle at 09 Jul 2014 11.27am
Just to define. Nonce in its medical sense.

Depends on whether you're going DSM-IV or V. DSM-IV lists paedophilia as relating to fantasy and obsessive sexual fantasies about children. Both DSM categories are criticised as being over inclusive, and not divisional among child sex offender types. Its also classed under a paraphilia, so realistically a paedophile would in psychiatry be exclusively sexual in preference to children.

Its erroneous to classify all paedophiles as psychiatric cases, it tends to be a convenience that has grown out of how general psychiatry encounters paedophilia outside of forensic cases (such as self referrals and sexual dysfunction cases).

It certainly doesn't compensate to cases of child sex murders which tend to fit models of psychopathy more than paraphilia.

Its dangerous in many ways to view child sex offenders as mental ill individuals, without reviewing the context and patterns of their behaviour in relation to children.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stirlingsays 10 Jul 14 2.15am
Based upon what's coming out I find it hard to accept that Harris was into underage stuff......Personally I feel the jury weren't rigorous enough here. Still, the unwanted groping of women does appear to be built upon a surer footing. I just find the whole thing very sad. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Jul 14 2.15am

Based upon what's coming out I find it hard to accept that Harris was into underage stuff......Personally I feel the jury weren't rigorous enough here.

Still, the unwanted groping of women does appear to be built upon a surer footing.

I just find the whole thing very sad.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Kermit8 Hevon 10 Jul 14 8.24am
Quote Farawayeagle at 09 Jul 2014 11.34am Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jul 2014 8.10am Faraway - Nine of the assaults took place between 1968 and 1985 - one on a girl aged seven or eight and the rest on teenagers between 14 and 19 according to the judgement. He was in his thirties and forties when doing this. That's definitely nonce territory. I was 25 and my future wife was 18 when we hooked up. Should I add nonce to my passport? No. Just 'lucky b@stard' Rolf is a sex offender. Nothing more nothing less. He's definitely not a nonce in the the worst sense but if you are touching a 14 year old too much and uninvited and you are 40 years old then something in yer brain is definitely not quite wired correctly. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 10 Jul 14 8.24am

Quote Farawayeagle at 09 Jul 2014 11.34am

Quote Kermit8 at 07 Jul 2014 8.10am

Faraway - Nine of the assaults took place between 1968 and 1985 - one on a girl aged seven or eight and the rest on teenagers between 14 and 19 according to the judgement.

He was in his thirties and forties when doing this.

That's definitely nonce territory.

I was 25 and my future wife was 18 when we hooked up.

Should I add nonce to my passport?

No. Just 'lucky b@stard'

Rolf is a sex offender. Nothing more nothing less. He's definitely not a nonce in the the worst sense but if you are touching a 14 year old too much and uninvited and you are 40 years old then something in yer brain is definitely not quite wired correctly.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Mapletree Croydon 10 Jul 14 8.53am
Quote Stirlingsays at 10 Jul 2014 2.15am Based upon what's coming out I find it hard to accept that Harris was into underage stuff......Personally I feel the jury weren't rigorous enough here. Still, the unwanted groping of women does appear to be built upon a surer footing. I just find the whole thing very sad. For issues on whether this is related to underage charges or nuisance charges the Judge will have given strong guidance Stirling. Not to do with whether the Jury was rigorous enough.
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Mapletree

Croydon 10 Jul 14 8.53am

Quote Stirlingsays at 10 Jul 2014 2.15am

Based upon what's coming out I find it hard to accept that Harris was into underage stuff......Personally I feel the jury weren't rigorous enough here.

Still, the unwanted groping of women does appear to be built upon a surer footing.

I just find the whole thing very sad.

For issues on whether this is related to underage charges or nuisance charges the Judge will have given strong guidance Stirling. Not to do with whether the Jury was rigorous enough.

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Stirlingsays 10 Jul 14 1.17pm
Quote Mapletree at 10 Jul 2014 8.53am Quote Stirlingsays at 10 Jul 2014 2.15am Based upon what's coming out I find it hard to accept that Harris was into underage stuff......Personally I feel the jury weren't rigorous enough here. Still, the unwanted groping of women does appear to be built upon a surer footing. I just find the whole thing very sad. For issues on whether this is related to underage charges or nuisance charges the Judge will have given strong guidance Stirling. Not to do with whether the Jury was rigorous enough. The jury aren't bound by the judge. Regardless I'm not confident on the underage stuff so however it was founded I regard that judgement as shaky and based upon the culture of the day. Still I accept that there are offences here. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Jul 14 1.17pm

Quote Mapletree at 10 Jul 2014 8.53am

Quote Stirlingsays at 10 Jul 2014 2.15am

Based upon what's coming out I find it hard to accept that Harris was into underage stuff......Personally I feel the jury weren't rigorous enough here.

Still, the unwanted groping of women does appear to be built upon a surer footing.

I just find the whole thing very sad.

For issues on whether this is related to underage charges or nuisance charges the Judge will have given strong guidance Stirling. Not to do with whether the Jury was rigorous enough.

The jury aren't bound by the judge. Regardless I'm not confident on the underage stuff so however it was founded I regard that judgement as shaky and based upon the culture of the day.

Still I accept that there are offences here.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Helmet46 Croydon 10 Jul 14 10.53pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 10 Jul 2014 2.15am Based upon what's coming out I find it hard to accept that Harris was into underage stuff......Personally I feel the jury weren't rigorous enough here. Still, the unwanted groping of women does appear to be built upon a surer footing. I just find the whole thing very sad. It's a lot sadder for the poor people the dirty old git groped.
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Helmet46

Croydon 10 Jul 14 10.53pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 10 Jul 2014 2.15am

Based upon what's coming out I find it hard to accept that Harris was into underage stuff......Personally I feel the jury weren't rigorous enough here.

Still, the unwanted groping of women does appear to be built upon a surer footing.

I just find the whole thing very sad.

It's a lot sadder for the poor people the dirty old git groped.

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