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Ched Evans saga part ???

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View black eagle.'s Profile black eagle. Flag south croydon. 07 Jan 15 11.27am Send a Private Message to black eagle. Add black eagle. as a friend

The guy should never be allowed to play football again,he's mean't to bea role model for kids,what kind off role model is a f**king rapist?

And apparently showed no remorse at all when he was sent to jail.

 

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View Mr Palaceman's Profile Mr Palaceman Flag 07 Jan 15 11.35am Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Quote The Sash at 07 Jan 2015 9.07am

Quote Mr Palaceman at 07 Jan 2015 8.01am

Quote Ian J at 07 Jan 2015 7.39am

I see that a petition has been signed by 30,000 to 40,000 Oldham fans insisting that the club don't sign him.

That seems to be about ten times the average attendance and it's a shame that someone didn't start up a petition (whether for or against) inside the ground on match day so that the club could gauge the depth of feeling amongst the true supporters rather than just the rent a signature mob that will campaign against anything.

I actually feel sorry for Evans as according to the general public his crime is far worse than that of killing people with your car whilst drunk as raping someone makes you unemployable whilst killing someone makes you club captain


I don't feel sorry for him at all, many seem to forget about the victim. Her life will never be the same, she just can't forget about it and move on.

He is just suffering the consquences of his own behaviour.


He does maintain he is innocent - he might be, might not be but Ian hits it on the head.

There wasn't this moral outpouring of rage from the non football world when the likes of Lee Hughes and the Plymouth keeper (name escapes) got back to football after both causing death by their actions or indeed the likes of Marlon King and Nile Ranger who appear to be woman beating sociopaths.

30-40k Oldham fans signed a petition ? Did they heck as like. There might be a 30k strong petition but I doubt very much that they are regulars at Boundary Park.

Edited by The Sash (07 Jan 2015 9.07am)

Just because some footballers get to go back to work after driving drunk and even causing death does not diminish this case. I wouldn't employ them at a club either.

In regards of his innocence, rape is notoriously hard to prove, look at the case of the tory MP in the news this week, case dropped due to lack of evidence. It's hard to get a conviction.

Most cases are not prosecuted even after after report is filed. The reason for that is the general attitude towards rape that we have here and the fact that often, it's one word against another.

For a conviction there must have been some quite compelling evidence. He probably thinks that what he did wasn't what he would call rape.

In this country, we sometimes focus too much on the criminal and the victims are largely forgotten. Think about what that girl has gone through. It is not easy to go through the courts as a victim of rape. For women to have to recount the whole incident in front of a court, having to go into all the intimate details. Many victims say it's like going through the whole thing all over again.

Victims of rape rarely get any closure even after a conviction. They have to live with it constantly, flashbacks, fear of strangers and even loved ones.

From what I understand of this case, I have to come down on the side of the victim and that isn't, IMO, Mr. Evans

I can't feel sorry for him because he doesn't get to earn a load of money doing what he has always loved to do.

He obviously has talent but unfortunately, I feel, he has wasted it.

IMO, he is in the position he is in because of the way he has behaved. No one else is to blame. Same as those drink drivers. Don't be upset because people now think your a waste of space and you can't work.

This is just my opinion and I'm not involved so it counts for nothing. It's a tough one, he's served his time but to me it just doesn't seem right.


 


"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

Stan Laurel

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View radsyrendot's Profile radsyrendot Flag From Coventry now in Leicester 07 Jan 15 11.37am Send a Private Message to radsyrendot Add radsyrendot as a friend

Has agreed terms with Oldham

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 07 Jan 15 11.38am Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Quote black eagle. at 07 Jan 2015 11.27am

The guy should never be allowed to play football again,he's mean't to bea role model for kids,what kind off role model is a f**king rapist?

And apparently showed no remorse at all when he was sent to jail.

To be fair, he doesn't express remorse because he maintains he is innocent.

Am also hearing he will sign for Oldham.

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 07 Jan 15 11.41am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Article on the Beeb [Link]

Mentions convicted Paedophile Graham Rix - he carried on having a career in football

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 07 Jan 15 11.50am Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Quote black eagle. at 07 Jan 2015 11.27am

The guy should never be allowed to play football again,he's mean't to bea role model for kids,what kind off role model is a f**king rapist?

And apparently showed no remorse at all when he was sent to jail.


I get what you're saying, but this idea that footballers are role models is very outdated.

Gerrard, Terry, Cole, Rooney, any number of others - long gone are the days when anyone would look up to a footballer for anything other than his sporting ability!

Whilst I agree that previous convictions may bar you from many types of work, it does tend, at least, to be work where it is somehow relevant - convictions related to dishonesty would bar you from most jobs in law or finance, sexual offences would proclude you from working with the vulnerable, etc. I still come back to this being about the fact that his job is a high profile and well paid one rather, which I struggle with the logic of (as people have said, I'd argue that killing people is worse than what he's done, and several players have returned to football after such convictions).

I'm sure he's a total scumbag (sadly most footballers seem to be - too much, too young, and all that). It just seems a bit odd to continue punishing someone after their release from prison.

 

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View lil j-eagle's Profile lil j-eagle Flag little bookham 07 Jan 15 11.52am Send a Private Message to lil j-eagle Add lil j-eagle as a friend

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 11.22am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 11.08am

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 10.37am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 10.30am

I'm with Ian J and Sash etc.

Evans is no worse than other offenders that have been allowed back in to play..... how many times has Joey Barton offended?

You cannot have arbitrary rules applied on emotive feelings.

Either all offenders are banned or not at all.

I am also not convinced about the safety of the Ched Evans' verdict either.

I don't know of many that have actually called seriously for him to be banned. They have just said they don't want him playing for their club.

And clubs have to weigh up the potential gains (playing side only as far as I can see) against the potential damage (financial, reputational) of employing him.

I wouldn't want him playing for our club. And I suspect a lot of fans and sponsors wouldn't want to be associated with a club that does employ him. There's no ban involved. It is the free market working.

It's the same pressure that is being applied to UKIP by branding them racist.

Free market....... my arse!

It is entirely a free market within current conditions.

The club can choose to employ the player if they wish. No one has stopped them. No one has told them they can't.

But any one associated with the club has the right to then express their unhappiness. And that includes the sponsors as well as the fans/board/manager (who in the case of Oldham apparently doesn't want him anyway).

The club can choose to ignore those expressions and bear the financial and reputational consequences. Or they can choose to not employ him. There's no ban. People are allowed to apply pressure within a market economy and the company/brand can choose to respond as it wants.


Yep exactly, there is no ban on him playing football, people are choosing not to sign him because of pressure from fans, sponsors and ed milliband it seems.

With regards the conviction of the rape, I can see what people mean because when you see 'ched evans, convicted rapist' you assume the worst, that he was some sort of evil b@stard who beat her etc and that's what I thought until I read up about it today. It was a bit of a blurry one because she was drunk, and by all accounts wasnt forced there but wasnt in a fit state to consent. By the letter of the law, that is rape. He deserved to go to jail, and probably to serve his full sentence. I said he wasnt an evil b@stard earlier, but he is certainly not a nice man. He had a girlfriend and had sex with someone who was clearly to drunk to consent, and for that reason it is completely fair enough that people dont want him playing for their club. Although, if he does play again in the future, then that is fine too, he has served his time, and as people have said, other footballers have done bad crimes and returned to play.

 


Messi, you're good, but you can't hit a ball like ambrose

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View Username's Profile Username Flag Horsham 07 Jan 15 12.18pm Send a Private Message to Username Add Username as a friend

Quote lil j-eagle at 07 Jan 2015 11.52am

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 11.22am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 11.08am

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 10.37am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 10.30am

I'm with Ian J and Sash etc.

Evans is no worse than other offenders that have been allowed back in to play..... how many times has Joey Barton offended?

You cannot have arbitrary rules applied on emotive feelings.

Either all offenders are banned or not at all.

I am also not convinced about the safety of the Ched Evans' verdict either.

I don't know of many that have actually called seriously for him to be banned. They have just said they don't want him playing for their club.

And clubs have to weigh up the potential gains (playing side only as far as I can see) against the potential damage (financial, reputational) of employing him.

I wouldn't want him playing for our club. And I suspect a lot of fans and sponsors wouldn't want to be associated with a club that does employ him. There's no ban involved. It is the free market working.

It's the same pressure that is being applied to UKIP by branding them racist.

Free market....... my arse!

It is entirely a free market within current conditions.

The club can choose to employ the player if they wish. No one has stopped them. No one has told them they can't.

But any one associated with the club has the right to then express their unhappiness. And that includes the sponsors as well as the fans/board/manager (who in the case of Oldham apparently doesn't want him anyway).

The club can choose to ignore those expressions and bear the financial and reputational consequences. Or they can choose to not employ him. There's no ban. People are allowed to apply pressure within a market economy and the company/brand can choose to respond as it wants.


Yep exactly, there is no ban on him playing football, people are choosing not to sign him because of pressure from fans, sponsors and ed milliband it seems.

With regards the conviction of the rape, I can see what people mean because when you see 'ched evans, convicted rapist' you assume the worst, that he was some sort of evil b@stard who beat her etc and that's what I thought until I read up about it today. It was a bit of a blurry one because she was drunk, and by all accounts wasnt forced there but wasnt in a fit state to consent. By the letter of the law, that is rape. He deserved to go to jail, and probably to serve his full sentence. I said he wasnt an evil b@stard earlier, but he is certainly not a nice man. He had a girlfriend and had sex with someone who was clearly to drunk to consent, and for that reason it is completely fair enough that people dont want him playing for their club. Although, if he does play again in the future, then that is fine too, he has served his time, and as people have said, other footballers have done bad crimes and returned to play.


No. Just no. It's not blurry at all. He was found guilty in a court of law of rape. He is a convicted rapist.

The Lee Hughes/McCormick things are irrelevant. Just because football got it wrong in the past, doesn't mean we should carry on doing it. In the 70s Dave Whelan's comments would have been fine, nowadays they have not. Society and football move on. It should be seen as progress that fans and clubs are actually taking a stance on this.

Evans is a scumbag. Not only has he never apologised or admitted his guilt. He took video evidence that made his victim easily identifiable and posted it online (without permission which may prove to have been illegal) resulting in her having to change her name 5 times in 3 years.

 


Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.

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View The Sash's Profile The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 07 Jan 15 12.24pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 9.50am

I actually think there was a moral outrage when both Lee Hughes and Marlon King tried to play again. And most Palace fans I know said they wouldn't want either of them dirtying Selhurst Park in the red'n'blue. A sentiment I agreed with.

My view hasn't changed in the slightest. Evans is guilty. He has been found guilty by a jury of his peers. He has then served his sentence. So he should be able to return to work in what ever field he wants to try and find employment.

However I personally wouldn't want him working for my club. And I think every club in the country is likely to turn their backs on him because of the negative publicity attatched to him. And as long as his victim continues to have to be displaced (she has moved home something like 5 times due to threats and hasn't seen her own father for a year because it is deemed too dangerous), I'll be happy that he isn't working as a massively well-paid footballer.

Well yes and no which is why I used the non football world line.

I don't remember MP's, on line petitions and every Tom, Dick and Harry venting their spleen for either or putting pressure on clubs not to sign them

I keep seeing the words that he doesn't show 'remorse' or is 'unrepentant' - two things, lets assume that he is actually innocent as he claims - I wouldn't show remorse or be repentant either for something I hadn't done and secondly, what do those phrases even mean ?????

As for the point you raised James that's exactly it - not waving a flag for Evans but more for the hypocrisy within football and society at large about this. Killing people (Hughes , McCormack) or Beating women senseless (amongst other things) for Range and King, sex with an under age girl, Graham Rix have caused no bar from those people resuming their careers - why is Evans and his case so special ???

BBC Mag link [Link]

Edited by The Sash (07 Jan 2015 12.31pm)

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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View Monty the Eagle's Profile Monty the Eagle Flag Lima 07 Jan 15 12.25pm Send a Private Message to Monty the Eagle Add Monty the Eagle as a friend

Steering clear of the moral debate but I can understand the decision of the Oldham board.

The facts are that they have got what was a £3m player for nothing and probably on smaller wages.

The majority of fans will probably still go as at the end of the day people will say to themselves that they are following the team rather than the players.

On top of that they are only 3 points off the play offs and stand a much better chance of making them with him leading the line. I would wager a bet that even just making the play off final would bring in more cash than they get per year from their main sponsor.

Then you have to factor in that he rightly or wrongly is still protesting his innocence. Should his conviction be overtuned then they have an asset that they can flog.

Putting morals aside it is probably a win win for Oldham.

Edited by Monty the Eagle (07 Jan 2015 12.26pm)

 

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View lil j-eagle's Profile lil j-eagle Flag little bookham 07 Jan 15 12.31pm Send a Private Message to lil j-eagle Add lil j-eagle as a friend

Quote Username at 07 Jan 2015 12.18pm

Quote lil j-eagle at 07 Jan 2015 11.52am

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 11.22am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 11.08am

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 10.37am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 10.30am

I'm with Ian J and Sash etc.

Evans is no worse than other offenders that have been allowed back in to play..... how many times has Joey Barton offended?

You cannot have arbitrary rules applied on emotive feelings.

Either all offenders are banned or not at all.

I am also not convinced about the safety of the Ched Evans' verdict either.

I don't know of many that have actually called seriously for him to be banned. They have just said they don't want him playing for their club.

And clubs have to weigh up the potential gains (playing side only as far as I can see) against the potential damage (financial, reputational) of employing him.

I wouldn't want him playing for our club. And I suspect a lot of fans and sponsors wouldn't want to be associated with a club that does employ him. There's no ban involved. It is the free market working.

It's the same pressure that is being applied to UKIP by branding them racist.

Free market....... my arse!

It is entirely a free market within current conditions.

The club can choose to employ the player if they wish. No one has stopped them. No one has told them they can't.

But any one associated with the club has the right to then express their unhappiness. And that includes the sponsors as well as the fans/board/manager (who in the case of Oldham apparently doesn't want him anyway).

The club can choose to ignore those expressions and bear the financial and reputational consequences. Or they can choose to not employ him. There's no ban. People are allowed to apply pressure within a market economy and the company/brand can choose to respond as it wants.


Yep exactly, there is no ban on him playing football, people are choosing not to sign him because of pressure from fans, sponsors and ed milliband it seems.

With regards the conviction of the rape, I can see what people mean because when you see 'ched evans, convicted rapist' you assume the worst, that he was some sort of evil b@stard who beat her etc and that's what I thought until I read up about it today. It was a bit of a blurry one because she was drunk, and by all accounts wasnt forced there but wasnt in a fit state to consent. By the letter of the law, that is rape. He deserved to go to jail, and probably to serve his full sentence. I said he wasnt an evil b@stard earlier, but he is certainly not a nice man. He had a girlfriend and had sex with someone who was clearly to drunk to consent, and for that reason it is completely fair enough that people dont want him playing for their club. Although, if he does play again in the future, then that is fine too, he has served his time, and as people have said, other footballers have done bad crimes and returned to play.


No. Just no. It's not blurry at all. He was found guilty in a court of law of rape. He is a convicted rapist.

The Lee Hughes/McCormick things are irrelevant. Just because football got it wrong in the past, doesn't mean we should carry on doing it. In the 70s Dave Whelan's comments would have been fine, nowadays they have not. Society and football move on. It should be seen as progress that fans and clubs are actually taking a stance on this.

Evans is a scumbag. Not only has he never apologised or admitted his guilt. He took video evidence that made his victim easily identifiable and posted it online (without permission which may prove to have been illegal) resulting in her having to change her name 5 times in 3 years.


that's not what I meant. On the scale of rape, it isnt as bad as other rapes (hence the 5 year sentence rather than life), but is still obviously horrific and punishable by jail. And there was enoguh evidence to prove he is guilty and I'm fine with that, but when it is one person's word against the other, there will always be an element of doubt. Even if there is enough evidence to convict them, there will still be a tiny element of doubt.

 


Messi, you're good, but you can't hit a ball like ambrose

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 07 Jan 15 12.32pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Quote Monty the Eagle at 07 Jan 2015 12.25pm

Steering clear of the moral debate but I can understand the decision of the Oldham board.

The facts are that they have got what was a £3m player for nothing and probably on smaller wages.

The majority of fans will probably still go as at the end of the day people will say to themselves that they are following the team rather than the players.

On top of that they are only 3 points off the play offs and stand a much better chance of making them with him leading the line. I would wager a bet that even just making the play off final would bring in more cash than they get per year from their main sponsor.

Then you have to factor in that he rightly or wrongly is still protesting his innocence. Should his conviction be overtuned then they have an asset that they can flog.

Putting morals aside it is probably a win win for Oldham.

Edited by Monty the Eagle (07 Jan 2015 12.26pm)

Depends on how much income they lose from sponsors (of which one has already publically stated they will withdraw if Oldham employ Evans). But yes I can see - especially at a lower level - it could end up being a commercially viable proposal.

No premier league (or probably championship) club could afford to do so. But maybe a league one club can do it.

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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