Tony Blair quits as Middle East envoy

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Stuk Top half 29 May 15 1.31pm
Quote The Sash at 29 May 2015 1.17pm Quote Stuk at 29 May 2015 12.33pm Quote becky at 29 May 2015 6.01am Quote Stuk at 28 May 2015 2.00pm Quote npn at 28 May 2015 9.02am His work is done - it IS all peaceful over there now, isn't it? It won't be if Palestine succeed in having Israel expelled from FIFA. If they did, would anyone apart from those two countries, actually notice the loss?........ From a European point of view I don't think it's the side anyone really wants to be in the same group as. Oh great, an away game in a volatile country surrounded by countries who hate it. England ??????? Funnily enough when it comes to football everybody does want us. Even our surrounding haters. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 29 May 15 1.31pm

Quote The Sash at 29 May 2015 1.17pm

Quote Stuk at 29 May 2015 12.33pm

Quote becky at 29 May 2015 6.01am

Quote Stuk at 28 May 2015 2.00pm

Quote npn at 28 May 2015 9.02am

His work is done - it IS all peaceful over there now, isn't it?

It won't be if Palestine succeed in having Israel expelled from FIFA.

If they did, would anyone apart from those two countries, actually notice the loss?........

From a European point of view I don't think it's the side anyone really wants to be in the same group as.

Oh great, an away game in a volatile country surrounded by countries who hate it.

England ???????

Funnily enough when it comes to football everybody does want us.

Even our surrounding haters.

Optimistic as ever

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Stirlingsays Online 29 May 15 1.49pm
Quote legaleagle at 29 May 2015 10.17am Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 8.30am We were right to go into Afghanistan with the coalition......57 Britains died in the World Trade Centre. We stayed far too long and we suffered from mission creep. Iraq is a more tricky situation, but while the involvement hasn't benefited us it has benefited Iraq. Without regime change that country would still be ruled by either Saddam or one of his murderous sons. Thousands would still be killed each year and millions oppressed. Many mistakes were made but that it annoys me to read people's easy one sided comments. Despite most people on here probably supporting Obama having withdrawn American troops out of Iraq it's a reality that Islamic state would not have been able to expand into Iraq and take their cities had troops still been there. Islamic state would have been contained to Syria. In hindsight the American troops were moved too early from Iraq.....Basically because that was the popular option.....But it's now obvious it was also the wrong option. Whatever you want to say (and Saddam was indeed a pig) you can't necessarily say less people are dying per year in Iraq (17,000 civilians in 2014) or that people are less oppressed.Seems to me the present situation is pretty darn oppressive for millions if you live in an ISIS controlled area or are a Sunni living in an area controlled by Shia militia... The US and UK completely screwed up (separate to the question of going in in the first place) in having no thought through plan beyond regime change. Edited by legaleagle (29 May 2015 10.50am) You know its quite ridiculous to suggest that because removing Saddam came with problems that it means that removing Saddam shouldn't have been done in terms of the greater good.....Which is the logical consequence. It's definitely true that deaths in the short term were high....With a country fighting for its future direction that is always going to be the case. . Islamic state gained traction due to the partial fall of Assad's Syria not the invasion of Iraq. It's connection to the Iraqi war is a very indirect one...It's far more connected to the Arab spring...though that admittedly has a distant connection to Iraq...Which is both positive and negative....Anyway It wouldn't have affected Iraq anything like as much if your lefty mate Obama hadn't pulled US troops out. As for the wisedom for the west of the Iraqi invasion I see it as a mixed bag....The discussion of which could fill many many books. Anyway I tend to find that those criticising these wars tend to have semi ridiculous, unrealistic or no real suggestions as to what should have been the response to the twin towers attack. They saw those planes flying into the towers and think that by doing nothing....they aren't coming for them. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

29 May 15 1.49pm

Quote legaleagle at 29 May 2015 10.17am

Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 8.30am

We were right to go into Afghanistan with the coalition......57 Britains died in the World Trade Centre.

We stayed far too long and we suffered from mission creep.

Iraq is a more tricky situation, but while the involvement hasn't benefited us it has benefited Iraq.

Without regime change that country would still be ruled by either Saddam or one of his murderous sons. Thousands would still be killed each year and millions oppressed.

Many mistakes were made but that it annoys me to read people's easy one sided comments.

Despite most people on here probably supporting Obama having withdrawn American troops out of Iraq it's a reality that Islamic state would not have been able to expand into Iraq and take their cities had troops still been there. Islamic state would have been contained to Syria.

In hindsight the American troops were moved too early from Iraq.....Basically because that was the popular option.....But it's now obvious it was also the wrong option.

Whatever you want to say (and
Saddam was indeed a pig) you can't necessarily say less people are dying per year in Iraq (17,000 civilians in 2014) or that people are less oppressed.Seems to me the present situation is pretty darn oppressive for millions if you live in an ISIS controlled area or are a Sunni living in an area controlled by Shia militia...

The US and UK completely screwed up (separate to the question of going in in the first place) in having no thought through plan beyond regime change.

Edited by legaleagle (29 May 2015 10.50am)

You know its quite ridiculous to suggest that because removing Saddam came with problems that it means that removing Saddam shouldn't have been done in terms of the greater good.....Which is the logical consequence.

It's definitely true that deaths in the short term were high....With a country fighting for its future direction that is always going to be the case. .

Islamic state gained traction due to the partial fall of Assad's Syria not the invasion of Iraq. It's connection to the Iraqi war is a very indirect one...It's far more connected to the Arab spring...though that admittedly has a distant connection to Iraq...Which is both positive and negative....Anyway It wouldn't have affected Iraq anything like as much if your lefty mate Obama hadn't pulled US troops out.

As for the wisedom for the west of the Iraqi invasion I see it as a mixed bag....The discussion of which could fill many many books.

Anyway I tend to find that those criticising these wars tend to have semi ridiculous, unrealistic or no real suggestions as to what should have been the response to the twin towers attack. They saw those planes flying into the towers and think that by doing nothing....they aren't coming for them.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Online 29 May 15 1.53pm
Oh and I can say less people are dying because depending upon which figures you choose it can be the case. What is definitely true is that when the Islamic state are defeated that those figures will be far less than in Saddam's day. Saddam killed continually to keep in power.....What makes me smile is that some on the left have argued themselves into a corner on this issue. The long term view was always broadly positive if Saddam was removed and Iraqi democracy implemented. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

29 May 15 1.53pm

Oh and I can say less people are dying because depending upon which figures you choose it can be the case.

What is definitely true is that when the Islamic state are defeated that those figures will be far less than in Saddam's day.

Saddam killed continually to keep in power.....What makes me smile is that some on the left have argued themselves into a corner on this issue.

The long term view was always broadly positive if Saddam was removed and Iraqi democracy implemented.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Kosowski Standing at the top of B Block 29 May 15 2.19pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 1.53pm Oh and I can say less people are dying because depending upon which figures you choose it can be the case. What is definitely true is that when the Islamic state are defeated that those figures will be far less than in Saddam's day. Saddam killed continually to keep in power.....What makes me smile is that some on the left have argued themselves into a corner on this issue. The long term view was always broadly positive if Saddam was removed and Iraqi democracy implemented. I wouldn't hold your breath. Block B comment of 2011/2012 Season: "That's better Palace, better...but still fucking shit!" ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dann to Much, Much to Yong.
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Kosowski

Standing at the top of B Block 29 May 15 2.19pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 1.53pm

Oh and I can say less people are dying because depending upon which figures you choose it can be the case.

What is definitely true is that when the Islamic state are defeated that those figures will be far less than in Saddam's day.

Saddam killed continually to keep in power.....What makes me smile is that some on the left have argued themselves into a corner on this issue.

The long term view was always broadly positive if Saddam was removed and Iraqi democracy implemented.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

Block B comment of 2011/2012 Season:

"That's better Palace, better...but still fucking shit!"

----------------------------------------------------------------

Dann to Much, Much to Yong.

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ghosteagle 29 May 15 2.25pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 1.49pm Quote legaleagle at 29 May 2015 10.17am Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 8.30am We were right to go into Afghanistan with the coalition......57 Britains died in the World Trade Centre. We stayed far too long and we suffered from mission creep. Iraq is a more tricky situation, but while the involvement hasn't benefited us it has benefited Iraq. Without regime change that country would still be ruled by either Saddam or one of his murderous sons. Thousands would still be killed each year and millions oppressed. Many mistakes were made but that it annoys me to read people's easy one sided comments. Despite most people on here probably supporting Obama having withdrawn American troops out of Iraq it's a reality that Islamic state would not have been able to expand into Iraq and take their cities had troops still been there. Islamic state would have been contained to Syria. In hindsight the American troops were moved too early from Iraq.....Basically because that was the popular option.....But it's now obvious it was also the wrong option. Whatever you want to say (and Saddam was indeed a pig) you can't necessarily say less people are dying per year in Iraq (17,000 civilians in 2014) or that people are less oppressed.Seems to me the present situation is pretty darn oppressive for millions if you live in an ISIS controlled area or are a Sunni living in an area controlled by Shia militia... The US and UK completely screwed up (separate to the question of going in in the first place) in having no thought through plan beyond regime change. Edited by legaleagle (29 May 2015 10.50am) You know its quite ridiculous to suggest that because removing Saddam came with problems that it means that removing Saddam shouldn't have been done in terms of the greater good.....Which is the logical consequence. It's definitely true that deaths in the short term were high....With a country fighting for its future direction that is always going to be the case. . Islamic state gained traction due to the partial fall of Assad's Syria not the invasion of Iraq. It's connection to the Iraqi war is a very indirect one...It's far more connected to the Arab spring...though that admittedly has a distant connection to Iraq...Which is both positive and negative....Anyway It wouldn't have affected Iraq anything like as much if your lefty mate Obama hadn't pulled US troops out. As for the wisedom for the west of the Iraqi invasion I see it as a mixed bag....The discussion of which could fill many many books. Anyway I tend to find that those criticising these wars tend to have semi ridiculous, unrealistic or no real suggestions as to what should have been the response to the twin towers attack. They saw those planes flying into the towers and think that by doing nothing....they aren't coming for them. We were wrong to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. Edited by ghosteagle (29 May 2015 2.26pm)
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ghosteagle

29 May 15 2.25pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 1.49pm

Quote legaleagle at 29 May 2015 10.17am

Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 8.30am

We were right to go into Afghanistan with the coalition......57 Britains died in the World Trade Centre.

We stayed far too long and we suffered from mission creep.

Iraq is a more tricky situation, but while the involvement hasn't benefited us it has benefited Iraq.

Without regime change that country would still be ruled by either Saddam or one of his murderous sons. Thousands would still be killed each year and millions oppressed.

Many mistakes were made but that it annoys me to read people's easy one sided comments.

In hindsight the American troops were moved too early from Iraq.....Basically because that was the popular option.....But it's now obvious it was also the wrong option.

The US and UK completely screwed up (separate to the question of going in in the first place) in having no thought through plan beyond regime change.

Edited by legaleagle (29 May 2015 10.50am)

It's definitely true that deaths in the short term were high....With a country fighting for its future direction that is always going to be the case. .

We were wrong to go into Afghanistan and Iraq.

Edited by ghosteagle (29 May 2015 2.26pm)

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Stirlingsays Online 29 May 15 2.28pm
Quote Kosowski at 29 May 2015 2.19pm I wouldn't hold your breath. I think you will be surprised. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

29 May 15 2.28pm

Quote Kosowski at 29 May 2015 2.19pm

I wouldn't hold your breath.

I think you will be surprised.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Online 29 May 15 2.30pm
Quote ghosteagle at 29 May 2015 2.25pm We were wrong to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. Edited by ghosteagle (29 May 2015 2.26pm) Ah well....Seeing as you put it like that! What can I say? Job done, thread ended. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

29 May 15 2.30pm

Quote ghosteagle at 29 May 2015 2.25pm

We were wrong to go into Afghanistan and Iraq.

Edited by ghosteagle (29 May 2015 2.26pm)

Ah well....Seeing as you put it like that!

What can I say? Job done, thread ended.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ghosteagle 29 May 15 2.50pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 2.30pm Quote ghosteagle at 29 May 2015 2.25pm We were wrong to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. Edited by ghosteagle (29 May 2015 2.26pm) Ah well....Seeing as you put it like that! What can I say? Job done, thread ended. Game, set & match.
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ghosteagle

29 May 15 2.50pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 2.30pm

Quote ghosteagle at 29 May 2015 2.25pm

We were wrong to go into Afghanistan and Iraq.

Edited by ghosteagle (29 May 2015 2.26pm)

Ah well....Seeing as you put it like that!

What can I say? Job done, thread ended.

Game, set & match.

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Stirlingsays Online 29 May 15 2.52pm
Quote ghosteagle at 29 May 2015 2.50pm Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 2.30pm Quote ghosteagle at 29 May 2015 2.25pm We were wrong to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. Edited by ghosteagle (29 May 2015 2.26pm) Ah well....Seeing as you put it like that! What can I say? Job done, thread ended. Game, set & match. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

29 May 15 2.52pm

Quote ghosteagle at 29 May 2015 2.50pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 29 May 2015 2.30pm

Quote ghosteagle at 29 May 2015 2.25pm

We were wrong to go into Afghanistan and Iraq.

Edited by ghosteagle (29 May 2015 2.26pm)

Ah well....Seeing as you put it like that!

What can I say? Job done, thread ended.

Game, set & match.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Kermit8 Hevon 29 May 15 7.08pm
Quote derben at 29 May 2015 11.04am Quote Kermit8 at 29 May 2015 10.34am The Iraq invasion was a cover for big business to make squillions under the disingenuous guise of revenge for 9/11 and for the US to tell Iran we are in your face. Blair was a naive idiot thinking there was any kind of moral crusade going on. Lost huge amounts of credibility. George Bush and the neo-cons? Cvnts to a man. LOL - you seriously believe that? Who told you, the fairies? Did Bush and Blair make make their arrangements with the wicked Capitalists in top hats before or after the Jews fabricated 9/11? Edited by derben (29 May 2015 12.26pm) So you don't know about the meeting - filmed and available for you to look out via the internet - where big corporate US companies were presented with the wonderful financial opportunities available for them in Iraq by the Bush administration as the invasion was getting under way? Obviously not. You must have heard of Haliburton though? Dick Cheney's bit on the side. Do some research. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 29 May 15 7.08pm

Quote derben at 29 May 2015 11.04am

Quote Kermit8 at 29 May 2015 10.34am

The Iraq invasion was a cover for big business to make squillions under the disingenuous guise of revenge for 9/11 and for the US to tell Iran we are in your face.

Blair was a naive idiot thinking there was any kind of moral crusade going on. Lost huge amounts of credibility. George Bush and the neo-cons? Cvnts to a man.

LOL - you seriously believe that? Who told you, the fairies? Did Bush and Blair make make their arrangements with the wicked Capitalists in top hats before or after the Jews fabricated 9/11?

Edited by derben (29 May 2015 12.26pm)

So you don't know about the meeting - filmed and available for you to look out via the internet - where big corporate US companies were presented with the wonderful financial opportunities available for them in Iraq by the Bush administration as the invasion was getting under way?

Obviously not.

You must have heard of Haliburton though? Dick Cheney's bit on the side.

Do some research.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Stirlingsays Online 29 May 15 7.21pm
Quote Kermit8 at 29 May 2015 7.08pm So you don't know about the meeting - filmed and available for you to look out via the internet - where big corporate US companies were presented with the wonderful financial opportunities available for them in Iraq by the Bush administration as the invasion was getting under way? Obviously not. You must have heard of Haliburton though? Dick Cheney's bit on the side. Do some research. Yeah, spending all that money on invasion and looking to recoup a bit of it is just proof of an evil empire. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

29 May 15 7.21pm

Quote Kermit8 at 29 May 2015 7.08pm

Obviously not.

You must have heard of Haliburton though? Dick Cheney's bit on the side.

Do some research.

Yeah, spending all that money on invasion and looking to recoup a bit of it is just proof of an evil empire.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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derben 29 May 15 7.25pm
Quote Kermit8 at 29 May 2015 7.08pm Quote derben at 29 May 2015 11.04am Quote Kermit8 at 29 May 2015 10.34am The Iraq invasion was a cover for big business to make squillions under the disingenuous guise of revenge for 9/11 and for the US to tell Iran we are in your face. Blair was a naive idiot thinking there was any kind of moral crusade going on. Lost huge amounts of credibility. George Bush and the neo-cons? Cvnts to a man. LOL - you seriously believe that? Who told you, the fairies? Did Bush and Blair make make their arrangements with the wicked Capitalists in top hats before or after the Jews fabricated 9/11? Edited by derben (29 May 2015 12.26pm) So you don't know about the meeting - filmed and available for you to look out via the internet - where big corporate US companies were presented with the wonderful financial opportunities available for them in Iraq by the Bush administration as the invasion was getting under way? Obviously not. You must have heard of Haliburton though? Dick Cheney's bit on the side. Do some research. So they plotted with the wicked Capitalist businessmen after the invasion started then? You would have thought they would have their dastardly plans in place before the invasion wouldn't you? If you can direct me to the left wing propaganda sites that you are talking about, I'll take a look.
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derben

29 May 15 7.25pm

Quote Kermit8 at 29 May 2015 7.08pm

Quote derben at 29 May 2015 11.04am

Quote Kermit8 at 29 May 2015 10.34am

The Iraq invasion was a cover for big business to make squillions under the disingenuous guise of revenge for 9/11 and for the US to tell Iran we are in your face.

Blair was a naive idiot thinking there was any kind of moral crusade going on. Lost huge amounts of credibility. George Bush and the neo-cons? Cvnts to a man.

LOL - you seriously believe that? Who told you, the fairies? Did Bush and Blair make make their arrangements with the wicked Capitalists in top hats before or after the Jews fabricated 9/11?

Edited by derben (29 May 2015 12.26pm)

Obviously not.

You must have heard of Haliburton though? Dick Cheney's bit on the side.

Do some research.

So they plotted with the wicked Capitalist businessmen after the invasion started then? You would have thought they would have their dastardly plans in place before the invasion wouldn't you? If you can direct me to the left wing propaganda sites that you are talking about, I'll take a look.

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