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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Jul 15 9.15am
Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 8.22pm Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 8.08pm Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 7.56pm Quote johnfirewall at 26 Jul 2015 7.38pm Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 5.33pm So you think benefit gorging, work shy, fat, loud, aggressive and ignorant chavs and slobs a la Jeremy Kyle should be put first before some nice, decent, hard-working, family minded and bright people who may happen to have come to the UK from a different country by way of really nasty situations back home which have occurred through no fault of theirs? It's only the left defending that but thanks for proving the point they are a drain just as migrants can be. It's quite funny that Kermit slags off the Jeremy Kyle trash. Obviously being of a left wing persuasion he's just slagged off Labour's very own client base. The benefit claiming bottom feeders who Labour paid for staying at home in exchange for their votes. You do realise The Tories/The Right - by 2020 - will have been in power for 28 of the last 41 years. That's 70% time wise. Don't let them off the hook with your grievances. They have had so much more time to cure this country's ills. The jury is still out on the Tories. If they screw up they'll come in for an equal amount of criticism. The truth of UK politics is this, both sock puppets, the one that's red and the one that is blue, screw up and f**k the country. Its an inevitable outcome. Happened in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and it'll continue long into the future. For some, the so called Labour party improve their lives and prospects, and for the so called Conservative party will improve their lives and prospects. But in truth, both have essentially created the problems of the 21st century with their decisions of the 20th century. In reality, its the fault of the people. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 27 Jul 15 9.15am

Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 8.22pm

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 8.08pm

Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 7.56pm

Quote johnfirewall at 26 Jul 2015 7.38pm

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 5.33pm

So you think benefit gorging, work shy, fat, loud, aggressive and ignorant chavs and slobs a la Jeremy Kyle should be put first before some nice, decent, hard-working, family minded and bright people who may happen to have come to the UK from a different country by way of really nasty situations back home which have occurred through no fault of theirs?

It's only the left defending that but thanks for proving the point they are a drain just as migrants can be.

It's quite funny that Kermit slags off the Jeremy Kyle trash. Obviously being of a left wing persuasion he's just slagged off Labour's very own client base. The benefit claiming bottom feeders who Labour paid for staying at home in exchange for their votes.

You do realise The Tories/The Right - by 2020 - will have been in power for 28 of the last 41 years. That's 70% time wise. Don't let them off the hook with your grievances. They have had so much more time to cure this country's ills.

The jury is still out on the Tories. If they screw up they'll come in for an equal amount of criticism.

The truth of UK politics is this, both sock puppets, the one that's red and the one that is blue, screw up and f**k the country. Its an inevitable outcome. Happened in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and it'll continue long into the future.

For some, the so called Labour party improve their lives and prospects, and for the so called Conservative party will improve their lives and prospects.

But in truth, both have essentially created the problems of the 21st century with their decisions of the 20th century.

In reality, its the fault of the people.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 27 Jul 15 9.19am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Jul 2015 9.09am Quote leggedstruggle at 26 Jul 2015 8.33pm Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 8.08pm Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 7.56pm Quote johnfirewall at 26 Jul 2015 7.38pm Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 5.33pm So you think benefit gorging, work shy, fat, loud, aggressive and ignorant chavs and slobs a la Jeremy Kyle should be put first before some nice, decent, hard-working, family minded and bright people who may happen to have come to the UK from a different country by way of really nasty situations back home which have occurred through no fault of theirs? It's only the left defending that but thanks for proving the point they are a drain just as migrants can be. It's quite funny that Kermit slags off the Jeremy Kyle trash. Obviously being of a left wing persuasion he's just slagged off Labour's very own client base. The benefit claiming bottom feeders who Labour paid for staying at home in exchange for their votes. You do realise The Tories/The Right - by 2020 - will have been in power for 28 of the last 41 years. That's 70% time wise. Don't let them off the hook with your grievances. They have had so much more time to cure this country's ills. People with your views were in power in the USSR for 75 years - how come they didn't build utopia in all that time? Same reason that capitalism hasn't in over 200 years. I don't think capitalism was ever sold as such. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 27 Jul 15 9.19am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Jul 2015 9.09am

Quote leggedstruggle at 26 Jul 2015 8.33pm

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 8.08pm

Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 7.56pm

Quote johnfirewall at 26 Jul 2015 7.38pm

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 5.33pm

It's only the left defending that but thanks for proving the point they are a drain just as migrants can be.

People with your views were in power in the USSR for 75 years - how come they didn't build utopia in all that time?

Same reason that capitalism hasn't in over 200 years.

I don't think capitalism was ever sold as such.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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legaleagle 27 Jul 15 9.34am
Quote Stirlingsays at 27 Jul 2015 2.02am Quote serial thriller at 27 Jul 2015 1.30am As for your last comment Hoof, we have funded despotic regimes which have tyrannised the area, produced bombs that have rained down on their villages and communities while continuing to turn a blind eye as oil and mining corporations pollute the environment. How can you possibly argue that we don't owe these people anything? Surprise me one time and show me you have a heart. What's all this 'we' stuff......I wasn't aware that I, hoof or anyone else had done awful things to people. What you are talking about ended here nearly two hundred years ago. What you are talking about was carried by a vast minority compared to the actual population in Britain....Wealthy landowners. The vast majority of British people had absolutely nothing to do with the slave trade.....No slaves, no income from slaves. At what stage exactly shall we disassociate ourselves from the evils that men do? Shall Germans who weren't Nazis carry the guilt for acts they didn't take part in?.....Or should I feel guilt because I share the same skin colour as rich land owners based in Bristol from at least 180 years ago. This kind of fuzzy guilt is just completely unfair when applied to the general masses. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jul 2015 2.14am) What he is talking about continued to take place up until recent times.It is too simplistic to simply equate the "rape and pillage" of Africa and Africans with the slavery period. The mass colonisation of Africa didn't even take place until long after slavery was abolished here. A statement that Africa was better off under European rule shows IMO a stunning lack of knowledge of either the continent in general or the history of most countries on it,as does a suggestion that the UK's contribution to economically exploiting the continent and sowing the roots of many of its problems today ended with the abolition of slavery. Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.35am)
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legaleagle

27 Jul 15 9.34am

Quote Stirlingsays at 27 Jul 2015 2.02am

Quote serial thriller at 27 Jul 2015 1.30am

As for your last comment Hoof, we have funded despotic regimes which have tyrannised the area, produced bombs that have rained down on their villages and communities while continuing to turn a blind eye as oil and mining corporations pollute the environment. How can you possibly argue that we don't owe these people anything? Surprise me one time and show me you have a heart.

What's all this 'we' stuff......I wasn't aware that I, hoof or anyone else had done awful things to people.

What you are talking about ended here nearly two hundred years ago.

What you are talking about was carried by a vast minority compared to the actual population in Britain....Wealthy landowners.

The vast majority of British people had absolutely nothing to do with the slave trade.....No slaves, no income from slaves.

At what stage exactly shall we disassociate ourselves from the evils that men do?

Shall Germans who weren't Nazis carry the guilt for acts they didn't take part in?.....Or should I feel guilt because I share the same skin colour as rich land owners based in Bristol from at least 180 years ago.

This kind of fuzzy guilt is just completely unfair when applied to the general masses.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jul 2015 2.14am)

What he is talking about continued to take place up until recent times.It is too simplistic to simply equate the "rape and pillage" of Africa and Africans with the slavery period. The mass colonisation of Africa didn't even take place until long after slavery was abolished here.

A statement that Africa was better off under European rule shows IMO a stunning lack of knowledge of either the continent in general or the history of most countries on it,as does a suggestion that the UK's contribution to economically exploiting the continent and sowing the roots of many of its problems today ended with the abolition of slavery.

Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.35am)

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leggedstruggle Croydon 27 Jul 15 9.54am
Quote legaleagle at 27 Jul 2015 9.34am Quote Stirlingsays at 27 Jul 2015 2.02am Quote serial thriller at 27 Jul 2015 1.30am As for your last comment Hoof, we have funded despotic regimes which have tyrannised the area, produced bombs that have rained down on their villages and communities while continuing to turn a blind eye as oil and mining corporations pollute the environment. How can you possibly argue that we don't owe these people anything? Surprise me one time and show me you have a heart. What's all this 'we' stuff......I wasn't aware that I, hoof or anyone else had done awful things to people. What you are talking about ended here nearly two hundred years ago. What you are talking about was carried by a vast minority compared to the actual population in Britain....Wealthy landowners. The vast majority of British people had absolutely nothing to do with the slave trade.....No slaves, no income from slaves. At what stage exactly shall we disassociate ourselves from the evils that men do? Shall Germans who weren't Nazis carry the guilt for acts they didn't take part in?.....Or should I feel guilt because I share the same skin colour as rich land owners based in Bristol from at least 180 years ago. This kind of fuzzy guilt is just completely unfair when applied to the general masses. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jul 2015 2.14am) What he is talking about took continued to take place up until recent times.It is too simplistic to simply equate the "rape and pillage" of Africa and Africans with the slavery period. The mass colonisation of Africa didn't even take place until long after slavery was abolished here. A statement that Africa was better off under European rule shows IMO a stunning lack of knowledge of either the continent in general or the history of most countries on it,as does a suggestion that the UK's contribution to economically exploiting the continent and sowing the roots of many of its problems today ended with the abolition of slavery. I should think the oppressed and starving people of Zimbabwe look back at Southern Rhodesia as a golden age in comparison. mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 27 Jul 15 9.54am

Quote legaleagle at 27 Jul 2015 9.34am

Quote Stirlingsays at 27 Jul 2015 2.02am

Quote serial thriller at 27 Jul 2015 1.30am

What's all this 'we' stuff......I wasn't aware that I, hoof or anyone else had done awful things to people.

What you are talking about ended here nearly two hundred years ago.

What you are talking about was carried by a vast minority compared to the actual population in Britain....Wealthy landowners.

The vast majority of British people had absolutely nothing to do with the slave trade.....No slaves, no income from slaves.

At what stage exactly shall we disassociate ourselves from the evils that men do?

This kind of fuzzy guilt is just completely unfair when applied to the general masses.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jul 2015 2.14am)

What he is talking about took continued to take place up until recent times.It is too simplistic to simply equate the "rape and pillage" of Africa and Africans with the slavery period. The mass colonisation of Africa didn't even take place until long after slavery was abolished here.

I should think the oppressed and starving people of Zimbabwe look back at Southern Rhodesia as a golden age in comparison.

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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legaleagle 27 Jul 15 10.25am
I should think they would in fact think you are talking utter nonsense, and that you even thinking of S Rhodesia as a "golden age" of any kind being illustration of a stunning lack of actual knowledge and appreciation of their history. Mind you,they might think someone who equates Jeremy Corbyn with Stalin would be well capable of such a loopy view. Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.29am)
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legaleagle

27 Jul 15 10.25am

I should think they would in fact think you are talking utter nonsense, and that you even thinking of S Rhodesia as a "golden age" of any kind being illustration of a stunning lack of actual knowledge and appreciation of their history.

Mind you,they might think someone who equates Jeremy Corbyn with Stalin would be well capable of such a loopy view.

Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.29am)

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Hoof Hearted 27 Jul 15 11.10am
Quote serial thriller at 26 Jul 2015 12.22pm 3. Our public infrastructure is creaking under the burden of an ageing population and the government's outsourcing programme. Migrants, as they did after the war, and in the 60s, and in the 90s, would bring a young demographic workforce who would restrengthen public infrastructure. Only 3% of land in this country is built on, so the idea that we're full is a load of bollocks. What you've written is bollocks! The only reason our population aged is because too many immigrants arrived stealing jobs from the indigenous population and lowered wages so that people felt they couldn't afford to start a family. The only growth area of the population is in the muslim sector where they are breeding like rabbits - which is their strategy for domination. 3% of the land is a very low percentage if you include the whole of the UK. By doing that you're including land not habitable eg mountainous regions, flood plains, agricultural areas, dangerous coastal areas, woodland, swamps, areas of outstanding natural beauty... all of which of which cannot or should not be built upon! We have reached saturation point. The infrastructure cannot cope with any more arriving. Do you want us to become like Dhaka in Bangladesh... where millions fight for space to live in tin shacks and toilet facilities are shared by thousands and raw sewage gathers in pontoons? I wish you would think through your suggestions before putting them in print.
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Hoof Hearted 27 Jul 15 11.10am

Quote serial thriller at 26 Jul 2015 12.22pm

3. Our public infrastructure is creaking under the burden of an ageing population and the government's outsourcing programme. Migrants, as they did after the war, and in the 60s, and in the 90s, would bring a young demographic workforce who would restrengthen public infrastructure. Only 3% of land in this country is built on, so the idea that we're full is a load of bollocks.

What you've written is bollocks!

The only reason our population aged is because too many immigrants arrived stealing jobs from the indigenous population and lowered wages so that people felt they couldn't afford to start a family. The only growth area of the population is in the muslim sector where they are breeding like rabbits - which is their strategy for domination.

3% of the land is a very low percentage if you include the whole of the UK. By doing that you're including land not habitable eg mountainous regions, flood plains, agricultural areas, dangerous coastal areas, woodland, swamps, areas of outstanding natural beauty... all of which of which cannot or should not be built upon!

We have reached saturation point. The infrastructure cannot cope with any more arriving.

Do you want us to become like Dhaka in Bangladesh... where millions fight for space to live in tin shacks and toilet facilities are shared by thousands and raw sewage gathers in pontoons?

I wish you would think through your suggestions before putting them in print.

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 27 Jul 15 11.24am
Quote legaleagle at 27 Jul 2015 10.25am I should think they would in fact think you are talking utter nonsense, and that you even thinking of S Rhodesia as a "golden age" of any kind being illustration of a stunning lack of actual knowledge and appreciation of their history. Mind you,they might think someone who equates Jeremy Corbyn with Stalin would be well capable of such a loopy view. Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.29am) It's all relative. Compared with living under Mugabe in Zimbabwe, I'd say that anything is preferable. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 27 Jul 15 11.24am

Quote legaleagle at 27 Jul 2015 10.25am

Mind you,they might think someone who equates Jeremy Corbyn with Stalin would be well capable of such a loopy view.

Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.29am)

It's all relative. Compared with living under Mugabe in Zimbabwe, I'd say that anything is preferable.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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leggedstruggle Croydon 27 Jul 15 11.29am
Quote legaleagle at 27 Jul 2015 10.25am I should think they would in fact think you are talking utter nonsense, and that you even thinking of S Rhodesia as a "golden age" of any kind being illustration of a stunning lack of actual knowledge and appreciation of their history. Mind you,they might think someone who equates Jeremy Corbyn with Stalin would be well capable of such a loopy view. Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.29am) Southern Rhodesia was the richest country in Africa before Mugabe, now it is one of the poorest in the world - its speed of decline must be some sort of world record, as was the annual inflation rate it achieved in 2009 of 231 million per cent. Apart from the deliberately unrecorded statistics of racist murders of white farmers,and its persecution of the gay community there, here are a few recorded statistics: 20% of Zimbabweans need support to meet their basic food requirements; 1.6 million people in Zimbabwe are living with HIV/AIDS; 84 of every 1,000 children die before reaching their fifth birthday; 960 mothers out of every 100,000 die from complications in childbirth; 80% of Zimbabweans do not have formal jobs. I'm not sure even Stalin could have created such havoc in so short a time. Edited by leggedstruggle (27 Jul 2015 11.32am) mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 27 Jul 15 11.29am

Quote legaleagle at 27 Jul 2015 10.25am

Mind you,they might think someone who equates Jeremy Corbyn with Stalin would be well capable of such a loopy view.

Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.29am)

Southern Rhodesia was the richest country in Africa before Mugabe, now it is one of the poorest in the world - its speed of decline must be some sort of world record, as was the annual inflation rate it achieved in 2009 of 231 million per cent. Apart from the deliberately unrecorded statistics of racist murders of white farmers,and its persecution of the gay community there, here are a few recorded statistics:
20% of Zimbabweans need support to meet their basic food requirements;
1.6 million people in Zimbabwe are living with HIV/AIDS;
84 of every 1,000 children die before reaching their fifth birthday;
960 mothers out of every 100,000 die from complications in childbirth;
80% of Zimbabweans do not have formal jobs.

I'm not sure even Stalin could have created such havoc in so short a time.

Edited by leggedstruggle (27 Jul 2015 11.32am)

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Jul 15 11.32am
Quote Cucking Funt at 27 Jul 2015 9.19am Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Jul 2015 9.09am Quote leggedstruggle at 26 Jul 2015 8.33pm Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 8.08pm Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 7.56pm Quote johnfirewall at 26 Jul 2015 7.38pm Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 5.33pm So you think benefit gorging, work shy, fat, loud, aggressive and ignorant chavs and slobs a la Jeremy Kyle should be put first before some nice, decent, hard-working, family minded and bright people who may happen to have come to the UK from a different country by way of really nasty situations back home which have occurred through no fault of theirs? It's only the left defending that but thanks for proving the point they are a drain just as migrants can be. It's quite funny that Kermit slags off the Jeremy Kyle trash. Obviously being of a left wing persuasion he's just slagged off Labour's very own client base. The benefit claiming bottom feeders who Labour paid for staying at home in exchange for their votes. You do realise The Tories/The Right - by 2020 - will have been in power for 28 of the last 41 years. That's 70% time wise. Don't let them off the hook with your grievances. They have had so much more time to cure this country's ills. People with your views were in power in the USSR for 75 years - how come they didn't build utopia in all that time? Same reason that capitalism hasn't in over 200 years. I don't think capitalism was ever sold as such. Kind of comes across that way in Adam Smith, and the way that some of the more rhetoric driven politicians push it as the cure for all a societies problems is more free markets etc... The Soviet Republics delivered a Utopia, for some. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 27 Jul 15 11.32am

Quote Cucking Funt at 27 Jul 2015 9.19am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Jul 2015 9.09am

Quote leggedstruggle at 26 Jul 2015 8.33pm

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 8.08pm

Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 7.56pm

Quote johnfirewall at 26 Jul 2015 7.38pm

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 5.33pm

It's only the left defending that but thanks for proving the point they are a drain just as migrants can be.

People with your views were in power in the USSR for 75 years - how come they didn't build utopia in all that time?

Same reason that capitalism hasn't in over 200 years.

I don't think capitalism was ever sold as such.

Kind of comes across that way in Adam Smith, and the way that some of the more rhetoric driven politicians push it as the cure for all a societies problems is more free markets etc...

The Soviet Republics delivered a Utopia, for some.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 27 Jul 15 11.33am
Quote leggedstruggle at 27 Jul 2015 11.29am Quote legaleagle at 27 Jul 2015 10.25am I should think they would in fact think you are talking utter nonsense, and that you even thinking of S Rhodesia as a "golden age" of any kind being illustration of a stunning lack of actual knowledge and appreciation of their history. Mind you,they might think someone who equates Jeremy Corbyn with Stalin would be well capable of such a loopy view. Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.29am) Southern Rhodesia was the richest country in Africa before Mugabe, now it is one of the poorest in the world - its speed of decline must be some sort of world record, as was the annual inflation rate it achieved in 2009 of 231 million per cent. Apart from the deliberately unrecorded statistics of racist murders of white farmers, here are a few recorded statistics: 20% of Zimbabweans need support to meet their basic food requirements; 1.6 million people in Zimbabwe are living with HIV/AIDS; 84 of every 1,000 children die before reaching their fifth birthday; 960 mothers out of every 100,000 die from complications in childbirth; 80% of Zimbabweans do not have formal jobs. Edited by leggedstruggle (27 Jul 2015 11.30am) Ah,but are they happy? Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 27 Jul 15 11.33am

Quote leggedstruggle at 27 Jul 2015 11.29am

Quote legaleagle at 27 Jul 2015 10.25am

Mind you,they might think someone who equates Jeremy Corbyn with Stalin would be well capable of such a loopy view.

Edited by legaleagle (27 Jul 2015 10.29am)

Southern Rhodesia was the richest country in Africa before Mugabe, now it is one of the poorest in the world - its speed of decline must be some sort of world record, as was the annual inflation rate it achieved in 2009 of 231 million per cent. Apart from the deliberately unrecorded statistics of racist murders of white farmers, here are a few recorded statistics:
20% of Zimbabweans need support to meet their basic food requirements;
1.6 million people in Zimbabwe are living with HIV/AIDS;
84 of every 1,000 children die before reaching their fifth birthday;
960 mothers out of every 100,000 die from complications in childbirth;
80% of Zimbabweans do not have formal jobs.

Edited by leggedstruggle (27 Jul 2015 11.30am)

Ah,but are they happy?

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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Hoof Hearted 27 Jul 15 11.35am
Quote serial thriller at 27 Jul 2015 1.30am Quote Hoof Hearted at 26 Jul 2015 11.03am All you lot that are suggesting we let these people in conveniently ignore the fact that there is a shortage of housing, schools, hospitals, and GP's already to cope with demand. We cannot build enough houses, schools or hospitals quickly enough even if we had the room. Our green belt land is needed for agriculture to feed those already here. Most of these migrants are not asylum seekers, they are economic tourists looking for a better life and should be returned home. Africa was better off when run by the Europeans - all of them clamoured for Independence and most have pretty much fcuked up their countries beyond belief economically and have turned them into war zones fighting amongst themselves for power. The "lucky ones" like Zimbabwe have a certain amount of stability but under control by an evil dictator like Mugabe. The others are in utter chaos, but it's all of their own doing. We owe these people nothing. Sorry for taking this thread off topic a bit, and I know I shouldn't really try and compete with the evidently doctoral-level historical knowledge on display here from Hoof, but this is a claim that has been made a few times on here and I find particularly worrying. Africa under European colonial rule was unimaginably terrible. For 300 years they were sent as slaves halfway across the world, and when we finally did them the service of recognising that they were, after all, human beings, we ruled them in some of the most oppressive, deadly and divisive ways possible. Yes, it was economically beneficial (for us) but then the same could be said of Fascism in Italy or Germany in the 30s: individual liberty is surely a higher priority than a successful economy? Africa now has some of the fastest growing economies in the world, but is evidently still embroiled in corruption, disease, famine and conflict which could last another hundred years. But they are no longer systemically oppressive; there is no longer an institutionalised racism within their governance which lead to mass killing, enslavement and tyranny, and that has to be regarded as progress. As for your last comment Hoof, we have funded despotic regimes which have tyrannised the area, produced bombs that have rained down on their villages and communities while continuing to turn a blind eye as oil and mining corporations pollute the environment. How can you possibly argue that we don't owe these people anything? Surprise me one time and show me you have a heart. The African chiefs were into the slave trade long before we arrived. It was common practice for one tribe to attack another and enslave the captives to say nothing of the rape and killing. Yes - our brief association with slavery was a stain on our record, but thankfully it was outlawed by us. Slavery still exists today and probably is being carried out here by East European gangs forcibly trafficking women to London for the sex trade. As regards Africa and the fast growing economies - many are still backward. Zambia has fcuked up a lucrative trade of copper mining by allowing the railways to fall into a major state of repair. Prior to their independence everything worked perfectly. I've heard stories about black farmers taking over a ranch previously owned by a white person and them slaughtering the dairy herd for steaks... how shortsighted is that? The fact is - you cannot help these people, they are largely too stupid to govern themselves fairly. What happens is that they kill and maim each other and end up under the control of evil dictators like Mugabe.
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Hoof Hearted 27 Jul 15 11.35am

Quote serial thriller at 27 Jul 2015 1.30am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 26 Jul 2015 11.03am

All you lot that are suggesting we let these people in conveniently ignore the fact that there is a shortage of housing, schools, hospitals, and GP's already to cope with demand.

We cannot build enough houses, schools or hospitals quickly enough even if we had the room. Our green belt land is needed for agriculture to feed those already here.

Most of these migrants are not asylum seekers, they are economic tourists looking for a better life and should be returned home.

Africa was better off when run by the Europeans - all of them clamoured for Independence and most have pretty much fcuked up their countries beyond belief economically and have turned them into war zones fighting amongst themselves for power. The "lucky ones" like Zimbabwe have a certain amount of stability but under control by an evil dictator like Mugabe. The others are in utter chaos, but it's all of their own doing.

We owe these people nothing.

Sorry for taking this thread off topic a bit, and I know I shouldn't really try and compete with the evidently doctoral-level historical knowledge on display here from Hoof, but this is a claim that has been made a few times on here and I find particularly worrying.

Africa under European colonial rule was unimaginably terrible. For 300 years they were sent as slaves halfway across the world, and when we finally did them the service of recognising that they were, after all, human beings, we ruled them in some of the most oppressive, deadly and divisive ways possible. Yes, it was economically beneficial (for us) but then the same could be said of Fascism in Italy or Germany in the 30s: individual liberty is surely a higher priority than a successful economy?

Africa now has some of the fastest growing economies in the world, but is evidently still embroiled in corruption, disease, famine and conflict which could last another hundred years. But they are no longer systemically oppressive; there is no longer an institutionalised racism within their governance which lead to mass killing, enslavement and tyranny, and that has to be regarded as progress.

The African chiefs were into the slave trade long before we arrived. It was common practice for one tribe to attack another and enslave the captives to say nothing of the rape and killing.

Yes - our brief association with slavery was a stain on our record, but thankfully it was outlawed by us. Slavery still exists today and probably is being carried out here by East European gangs forcibly trafficking women to London for the sex trade.

As regards Africa and the fast growing economies - many are still backward. Zambia has fcuked up a lucrative trade of copper mining by allowing the railways to fall into a major state of repair. Prior to their independence everything worked perfectly. I've heard stories about black farmers taking over a ranch previously owned by a white person and them slaughtering the dairy herd for steaks... how shortsighted is that?

The fact is - you cannot help these people, they are largely too stupid to govern themselves fairly.

What happens is that they kill and maim each other and end up under the control of evil dictators like Mugabe.

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leggedstruggle Croydon 27 Jul 15 11.36am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Jul 2015 11.32am Quote Cucking Funt at 27 Jul 2015 9.19am Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Jul 2015 9.09am Quote leggedstruggle at 26 Jul 2015 8.33pm Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 8.08pm Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 7.56pm Quote johnfirewall at 26 Jul 2015 7.38pm Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 5.33pm So you think benefit gorging, work shy, fat, loud, aggressive and ignorant chavs and slobs a la Jeremy Kyle should be put first before some nice, decent, hard-working, family minded and bright people who may happen to have come to the UK from a different country by way of really nasty situations back home which have occurred through no fault of theirs? It's only the left defending that but thanks for proving the point they are a drain just as migrants can be. It's quite funny that Kermit slags off the Jeremy Kyle trash. Obviously being of a left wing persuasion he's just slagged off Labour's very own client base. The benefit claiming bottom feeders who Labour paid for staying at home in exchange for their votes. You do realise The Tories/The Right - by 2020 - will have been in power for 28 of the last 41 years. That's 70% time wise. Don't let them off the hook with your grievances. They have had so much more time to cure this country's ills. People with your views were in power in the USSR for 75 years - how come they didn't build utopia in all that time? Same reason that capitalism hasn't in over 200 years. I don't think capitalism was ever sold as such. Kind of comes across that way in Adam Smith, and the way that some of the more rhetoric driven politicians push it as the cure for all a societies problems is more free markets etc... The Soviet Republics delivered a Utopia, for some. Who for? The torturers in the Lubyanka? mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 27 Jul 15 11.36am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Jul 2015 11.32am

Quote Cucking Funt at 27 Jul 2015 9.19am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Jul 2015 9.09am

Quote leggedstruggle at 26 Jul 2015 8.33pm

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 8.08pm

Quote fed up eagle at 26 Jul 2015 7.56pm

Quote johnfirewall at 26 Jul 2015 7.38pm

Quote Kermit8 at 26 Jul 2015 5.33pm

It's only the left defending that but thanks for proving the point they are a drain just as migrants can be.

People with your views were in power in the USSR for 75 years - how come they didn't build utopia in all that time?

Same reason that capitalism hasn't in over 200 years.

I don't think capitalism was ever sold as such.

Kind of comes across that way in Adam Smith, and the way that some of the more rhetoric driven politicians push it as the cure for all a societies problems is more free markets etc...

The Soviet Republics delivered a Utopia, for some.

Who for? The torturers in the Lubyanka?

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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