Jeremy Corbyn
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hedgehog50  Croydon 24 Mar 17 2.28pm |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
The likes of Dianne Abbott were faced with the same decision any parent is - do what is right for everyone or what is right for your child. Most choose the latter. It's almost certainly the decision I would make as well. The state schools in my area (primary and secondary) are generally pretty good and non-selective so it probably won't be a decision I have to labour over for too long. I'd rather see the focus be either how to improve the current system or - if grammar schools are going to be the future - then a way of better identifying potential/ability. Because despite what dannyh says grammar schools do not select the best and brightest. Dianne Abbott can afford to send her children to a private school. At the same time she seeks to deny children whose parents cannot afford to send their children to a private school the chance of getting in a grammar school on merit. She is a hypocrite of the highest order.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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 dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 24 Mar 17 2.36pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Dianne Abbott can afford to send her children to a private school. At the same time she seeks to deny children whose parents cannot afford to send their children to a private school the chance of getting in a grammar school on merit. She is a Cnut of the highest order. Edited for accuracy.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 24 Mar 17 2.42pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
Bullsh1t If you really believe those that turn up with the fattest wallet get in, then I can't help you. Edited by dannyh (24 Mar 2017 2.32pm) Fortunately I really don't need your help. I'll believe what the statistics show. And that's that the poor are not reflected proportionately in the the intake for grammar schools and that the testing used to select is not an appropriate methodology,
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 24 Mar 17 2.43pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Dianne Abbott can afford to send her children to a private school. At the same time she seeks to deny children whose parents cannot afford to send their children to a private school the chance of getting in a grammar school on merit. She is a hypocrite of the highest order. Yes she probably is a hypocrite of the highest order. And actually she acknowledges it - at least on this point. I'm not seeking to defend Dianne Abbott. I don't care in the least about her.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 24 Mar 17 2.45pm |
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Originally posted by Michaelawt85
Yes they do. I got it almost spot on which children from my son's year would pass and which wouldn't. The most academic children pass and go there. End of No I'm sorry they don't. Even if it happened in the one isolated case in your child's school that doesn't mean it happens everywhere. The numbers and evidence are easy enough to find if you are really interested. And that's aside from the question of whether the 11+ exams actually identify the best academic potential anyway.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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 Michaelawt85 Bexley 24 Mar 17 2.53pm |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
No I'm sorry they don't. Even if it happened in the one isolated case in your child's school that doesn't mean it happens everywhere. The numbers and evidence are easy enough to find if you are really interested. And that's aside from the question of whether the 11+ exams actually identify the best academic potential anyway. It wasn't in one isolated case. That wasn't what I said. The 11 plus exam consists of maths, English, verbal and non verbal reasoning and is the same system used by 3 of my nearest non selective schools for banding the pupils they have once they have a place . So they must all feel it gives a true entough representation of someone's overall ability if they all use it. I take on board the fact you personally believe from information you have read that it may not be the best way of measuring a childs academic capability. What do you propose is used instead.
When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC |
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 24 Mar 17 3.34pm |
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Originally posted by Michaelawt85
It wasn't in one isolated case. That wasn't what I said. The 11 plus exam consists of maths, English, verbal and non verbal reasoning and is the same system used by 3 of my nearest non selective schools for banding the pupils they have once they have a place . So they must all feel it gives a true entough representation of someone's overall ability if they all use it. I take on board the fact you personally believe from information you have read that it may not be the best way of measuring a childs academic capability. What do you propose is used instead. I genuinely don't know what is a better system for selection, which is why if there isn't one out there then I'd rather people were devoting valuable limited resources to improving current schools. There are educational experts who are looking into it. And if they find a better way of measuring then that would be terrific because I do think that lumping everyone together regardless of ability can be counter-productive.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| npn Crowborough 24 Mar 17 4.02pm |
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For what it's worth, I looked into sending my girls to grammar, and even got hold of a few old papers to see if they were up to it. The problem is that it follows processes not on every syllabus (being in Sussex, with no grammars, my kids aren't taught the skills necessary to pass, which means either tuition of comprehensives). Also, the fact that they would be cross-border students (in Kent) takes the pass mark way higher. In the end I decided I would just be setting them up to fail, and decided against it. I don't mind the concept of streaming brighter kids to more academic schools (though I'm uneasy about rejecting kids at such an early age), but it's got to be all or nothing, not that old classic "a postcode lottery"
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 24 Mar 17 7.31pm |
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[Link]
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Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 24 Mar 17 7.40pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
[Link] The only party to field candidates. Not quite a level playing field. You also had a candidate disqualified in Blackburn
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| Hoof Hearted 25 Mar 17 9.59am | |
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Originally posted by npn
For what it's worth, I looked into sending my girls to grammar, and even got hold of a few old papers to see if they were up to it. The problem is that it follows processes not on every syllabus (being in Sussex, with no grammars, my kids aren't taught the skills necessary to pass, which means either tuition of comprehensives). Also, the fact that they would be cross-border students (in Kent) takes the pass mark way higher. In the end I decided I would just be setting them up to fail, and decided against it. I don't mind the concept of streaming brighter kids to more academic schools (though I'm uneasy about rejecting kids at such an early age), but it's got to be all or nothing, not that old classic "a postcode lottery" Read what Michaela put... she appears to have the most recent experience of this dilemma. Streaming has always been a factor... my secondary modern school (65 to 72) streamed A1. A2, B1 to B2 where A1 were those likely to achieve GCE O Levels, A2 CSE's, B1 some manual apprenticeship and B2 were the rabble that played truant, had fights etc. If you are not streamed by schools like grammar v comprehensive, you will be streamed anyway?
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 26 Mar 17 11.34am |
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Another resounding success for Donald, sorry I mean Jezza [Tweet Link]
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