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March 29 2024 12.42am

Anti immigration parties on the rise

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 02 Sep 15 5.00pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 02 Sep 2015 4.58pm

I think what makes these immigration debates pointless is really that those on the pro side wish to win a philosophical/moral argument regardless of any facts or interpretation of facts while finding it impossible to accept that many others would just prefer it if migrants hadn't come here at all.
Both of these attitudes just reflect different aspects of human behavior.

Which ever side you are on, it surely must be agreed that we now have a whole lot of issues to deal with that we didn't have before. Some will ignore these because they don't fit with their belief system while others will play them up to excuse their own limitations.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle I suspect.

Indeed it does.


 


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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 02 Sep 15 5.03pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 4.59pm

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What do the non-working migrants contribute exactly? Bear in mind that those advocating letting everyone in, are talking about letting in migrants who will not be allowed to work. (ps please don't say "let them work then" as they'd need to change that law beforehand, not afterwards.)

They probably won't, but then they aren't migrants, they're asylum seekers / refugees. I'm not willing to send people back to war torn s**tholes where rape and murder are domestic policy. And I believe that this should be set not by which country they make it to, but regulated and controlled centrally, with the dispora sent to different countries on a more or less equal basis.

I don't advocate letting everyone in, either, never have been, never will be.



By who, the World Police?

Or are you just saying that this should only apply to European countries and we should be dictated to by the EU, despite having the forethought to not join in their ridiculous Schengen zone.

I think you really need to look at a UN organization, such as those already involved with refugees or NGO with the idea being to equally distribute the application processing, rather than localize it. Ideally you want an organization that's can process waves of refugees in border states to a crisis as well.


They have no power to enforce anything on any country.

And what happens when you decide that they have to go to let's say Mexico and they all say no.

Then they get to return home. Clearly you can't use countries which are 'unstable' or a 'risk' (can't send a gay man to Angola who's fled Iran) , but clearly if you're not happy relocating to Mexico or Western Super-Mare your life isn't at risk, and you can go back to Syria.

That's how I see it. Even Preston should look a better option to someone who is a genuine refugee.



But that won't be fair if their mate lucked in and got UK, for example.

I like the idea but they'll find a reason why they can't go to every country they don't want to go to.

Obviously I'm not thinking splitting up families etc. Its not about fair, its about being arbitrary and as fair as possible to all involved.

I'm not even sure that the UK constitutes lucking out, I'd have gone with Germany, France, Norway, Belgium Sweden, Holland as being more the 'jackpot'.

You know your life sucks if moving to a council estate in Glasgow or Western Super-Mare is 'lucking out'


How far are you extending the family to? Adult siblings, cousins, in-laws etc?

You might not be, but they seem blindingly sure of it.

You know the chance of ending up in either of those two places is few and far between, and then you can simply move on once granted permission to stay. It's not even a arbitary system within the UK, meaning it's not fair on those in the South East.

Those currently applying for asylum. So if you escape with your cousins, then yeah. If your cousins later flee then they might have to make do with living in a different country.

As for people moving around in the country, that's fair enough, once you've been granted asylum, you're a free citizen. If you're moving to the South East where the employment prospects are probably better, you've already proven yourself above some of the people already here.

I would say that until granted asylum, applicants should be more or less distributed across the UK, rather than ghettoized, in any and all areas, not just dumped in the s**ty parts of the UK and left to make the best of it.


So you're going to detain them then?

No, but they will only get housing benefit and welfare paid in one local council, without an approved movement being approved. I'd also be insistant that they also underwent some skills and language classes during the period of application.


Then they won't stay where you tell them to.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 02 Sep 15 5.17pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

How come Germany and the rest aren't having a pop at the Czech republic, for example?

They only had 800 and odd requests for asylum this year, yet:

A new poll released on Wednesday suggested that 94% of Czechs believed the EU should return refugees to where they came from, 32% without helping them at all.

More than three quarters want to abandon the EU's Schengen Agreement, which enables passport-free travel, and send Czech border guards back to their posts

 


Optimistic as ever

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Sep 15 6.26pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Since Q1 of 2014 to Q2 in 2015 Europe has experienced an 86 percent rise in people claiming asylum in Europe.

One reason the left tend to like immigrants is that by and large (despite how apparently hard working they are) they tend to all vote left wing......Because they know what side their bread is buttered.

Lets just forget the fact that this extra competition of labour draws down wages for non skilled or semi skilled jobs.....So it's harder to get that job and it's probably a lower paid job as well.

Let's forget the extra burden upon infrastructure that this country isn't coping with with today's ridiculous level of net immigration.

But many people don't care enough about the British working class to allow that to overide their concerns over world citizens.

This policy view is the one area that the far left tend to agree with CEOs on......They both think 'Immigration is brilliant'.

No recent immigrant is likely to be taking their job.

The media...especially the broadcast media tow the politician's line of always repeating the 'benefits' of immigration.

But it isn't their jobs that are likely to be competed with. In fact I bet most of those who support unfetted immigration aren't actually being threatened or care for those that are.

The British working class and a few lower middle class have been royalty fecked up the backside.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Sedlescombe's Profile Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 02 Sep 15 6.37pm Send a Private Message to Sedlescombe Add Sedlescombe as a friend

Just out of interest why do you think that the country that takes the most migrants (Germany) is also the richest country in Europe. I might also ask why ethnically diverse New York is so rich why monocultures like say Albania are not

Just saying that the situation I sore nuanced than you are suggesting. Though you are right to point out that the white working class are one of the areas that have been left behind. So are black males so this isn't a "colour" thing.

You are also being unfair that no one on the left will talk about this. Check out "Chavs" by Owen Jones who has impeccable left wing credentials

 

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View nhp61's Profile nhp61 Flag Goring-By-Sea born, now in Brackne... 02 Sep 15 6.51pm Send a Private Message to nhp61 Add nhp61 as a friend

So maybe not all left wingers, but most of them, tend to like open immigration.

Not too long ago David Cameron spoke about the immigrants in Calais trying to enter the UK. The left loudly wet their knickers because he used the word 'swarm", conveniently diverting the attention away from the main gist of what he was talking about.

 

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View rednblue4eva's Profile rednblue4eva Flag Norwood 02 Sep 15 6.56pm Send a Private Message to rednblue4eva Add rednblue4eva as a friend

Some of those claiming they are economic refugees on the news reports were showing journalists photos of children etc on nice new smartphones (Galaxy S6 etc) and wearing Lacoste clothes

Economic ?

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Sep 15 7.17pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Sedlescombe at 02 Sep 2015 6.37pm

Just out of interest why do you think that the country that takes the most migrants (Germany) is also the richest country in Europe. I might also ask why ethnically diverse New York is so rich why monocultures like say Albania are not

Just saying that the situation I sore nuanced than you are suggesting. Though you are right to point out that the white working class are one of the areas that have been left behind. So are black males so this isn't a "colour" thing.

You are also being unfair that no one on the left will talk about this. Check out "Chavs" by Owen Jones who has impeccable left wing credentials


You are right that this isn't a colour thing, you are also right that I'm not speaking for all the left. I made sure I didn't say that because I know some left wingers definitely do care.

As for why Germany is the richest country in the EU.....Well, that has little to do with immigration.....It reached its economic position with normal levels. Anyone with a basic history knowledge knows why the naturally conservative German culture prizes hard work and staying in credit.

The reasons for that cultural tendency has a lot to do with what happened to Germany over the last hundred years.......A country who starved and suffered massively after both world wars.

Germany also owns America massively over the Marshall plan.....Shame how it looks at Greece when it was given a chance itself.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Sep 2015 7.18pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Sedlescombe's Profile Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 02 Sep 15 7.35pm Send a Private Message to Sedlescombe Add Sedlescombe as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 02 Sep 2015 7.17pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 02 Sep 2015 6.37pm

Just out of interest why do you think that the country that takes the most migrants (Germany) is also the richest country in Europe. I might also ask why ethnically diverse New York is so rich why monocultures like say Albania are not

Just saying that the situation I sore nuanced than you are suggesting. Though you are right to point out that the white working class are one of the areas that have been left behind. So are black males so this isn't a "colour" thing.

You are also being unfair that no one on the left will talk about this. Check out "Chavs" by Owen Jones who has impeccable left wing credentials


You are right that this isn't a colour thing, you are also right that I'm not speaking for all the left. I made sure I didn't say that because I know some left wingers definitely do care.

As for why Germany is the richest country in the EU.....Well, that has little to do with immigration.....It reached its economic position with normal levels. Anyone with a basic history knowledge knows why the naturally conservative German culture prizes hard work and staying in credit.

The reasons for that cultural tendency has a lot to do with what happened to Germany over the last hundred years.......A country who starved and suffered massively after both world wars.

Germany also owns America massively over the Marshall plan.....Shame how it looks at Greece when it was given a chance itself.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Sep 2015 7.18pm)

Regarding Germany/Greece I have had similar thoughts albeit Germany got nothing like the Marshall Funds that Britain received. It seemed to get personal once Varoufakis started demanding war reparations; and there was a rather nasty tone to Germany's attitude towards Greece. Now both Germany and Greece are stuck with a bad deal as a result of it

 

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 02 Sep 15 7.55pm

While there should be a reasoned debate; here's something for those advocating pushing them back into the boats. RIP.

Sterling why conflate the poor integration of the Jewish community with the rise in anti-Islamic migration?

Edited by pefwin (02 Sep 2015 7.55pm)

_85332393_full-pic.jpg Attachment: _85332393_full-pic.jpg (49.68Kb)

 


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Quote Sedlescombe at 02 Sep 2015 7.35pm

Regarding Germany/Greece I have had similar thoughts albeit Germany got nothing like the Marshall Funds that Britain received. It seemed to get personal once Varoufakis started demanding war reparations; and there was a rather nasty tone to Germany's attitude towards Greece. Now both Germany and Greece are stuck with a bad deal as a result of it

I couldn't agree more.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Sep 15 8.21pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote pefwin at 02 Sep 2015 7.55pm

While there should be a reasoned debate; here's something for those advocating pushing them back into the boats. RIP.

Sterling why conflate the poor integration of the Jewish community with the rise in anti-Islamic migration?

Edited by pefwin (02 Sep 2015 7.55pm)

Are you trying to be a smart arse? Or did you just read my points incorrectly?

Probably the latter considering you spelt my name incorrectly.

Jews aren't poor at integration (outside of the ultras). The Jews are probably one of the best cultures at integrating into host countries. They have even been Prime Minister here....Not bad for such a small population.

As for risking death at sea.....I and others don't advocate allowing people to drown. I always supported picking people out of the sea.

They should be held in camps in the border countries and the EU should pay for the upkeep until shipping them back to Syria.....How about we send them to the US.....You lot have loads of space.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Sep 2015 8.27pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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