Not really the point, the point was I don't get Muslims banging on my door at 10am on a Saturday or Sunday trying to get me to join their church. Who the f**k thinks that turning up to strangers houses to talk about god, uninvited, is in anyway acceptable?

There are no Christian values, because there is no Christian god to underpin them. They're ideas for the most part, that people like.

The difference between me, and them, maybe is that I would vote to support their right to be Christians and practice their faith even though its a nonsense to me, where as they would likely as not vote against allowing others to do things their faith considers wrong (abortion, gay marriage, drug legalization, euthanasia and so on).

Its not just a religious thing. The principle of 'right to exert moral power over others' forms a strong current in our nation, probably from its Christian heritage.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

I generally agree, that religion has been probably a force for more good, than evil in the world. But that doesn't justify any kind of system where in a majority group can exert moral choices onto others. No group in society should have that right or capacity to inflict its moral character onto the population except where the population has a clear consensus (such as committing rape or where those choices would inhibit or harm the freedom of others).

Wherever possible, each person should have as much freedom to make their own choices in life and about their lives, and how they wish to live them (that doesn't mean the state should necessarily fund them to do so).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

I think we're conditioned into the idea of promoting shared values, beyond their required need, and that this does stem from Christian influence. The need to 'save souls' and to effectively push Christian values has a central place in Christianity. The concept of the missionary and the conversion of heathens and pagans runs throughout history, and that we as a society have essentially adopted this notion of organizational power to enforce its values onto others, irrespective of whether than want or need them.

Central to Christianity is the idea that Christian Values are truth (its true of all Abrahamic faiths) and that these values apply to everyone, everywhere.

However you don't really see this in say Buddhism, or Shinto or even most forms of Hinduism (arguably the first two aren't really religions in any sense we understand the term). It stems, arguably, from the foundation of Catholicism, which was a militant Christian faith.

I think that we essentially have spent two thousand years or so, conditioning ourselves in the idea that its right to promote values as universally applicable to everyone, rather than being personal or community shared values. When you look at community shared values, they tend to be relevant to specific incidents and needs that occur in a group, and evolve from social participation of a group, rather than being dictated from authority figures.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Christianity has been a vehicle for morality but we associate it with the morals that fit the current fashion.
There is in fact no need for religion at all. Morality is separate. Is it really likely that religion came before morality or is it more likely that morality was born out of human nature and common sense ?

What colour should I use. I'm left wing on some things, right wing on some others, centerist on some and couldn't give a ... on some. Should we change colour depending on the subject? Also, how do we accommodate colour blind readers?

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

Supporting Palace is belonging to a catholic church (small "c" ). That's why we're red and blue.

Edited by sydtheeagle (30 Sep 2015 6.24pm)

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.