RAF man in hospital - might upset other patients?
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jamiemartin721  Reading 30 Sep 15 12.57pm |
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Quote Sg Bilko at 30 Sep 2015 11.05am
The way I see it is, Europe as a whole is a predominantly Christian society and has been for many hundreds of years, and if other ethnic religions want to come and live amongst us they are welcome but they have to learn tolerance towards the Christian ways and adjust to our ways, just like we have to when we go to their Counties. I'm a frequent visitor to Egypt, and no way would I even try to force my Christian beliefs on them, if I did I would very quickly find myself in chains and thrown into their hellhole of a prison, and I've seen that done in Sharm-el-Sheikh to three Russians, and Egyptians don't invite you politely, your aggressively manhandled, and they are a very tolerant society compared to most others. Thing is, I've never actually experienced any attempt by Muslims to convert me or otherwise force their views on me, despite living in an area that has a sizable Muslim population. But there have been three visits in five years from the two 'evangelical' church asking if 'I'd be interested in hearing the good word' and a visit from the 'holy high pants of nonsense' brigade (Mormans). Our 'Christian Traditions' are essentially the product of a King having 'had enough of religious interference' in the domination of state, and deciding to resolve a four hundred year old problem. And yet, still that elimination of the power of religion, resulted in the Church of England and ultimately Anglican faiths coming about, and still ending up trying to decide for everyone how they should live and behave. Of course the irony of people defending a migrant belief system, that has its basis in militancy, and the middle east, as being rightfully the 'dominant faith' of the country and thus dismissing an older, and related faith, with the same god, as having any validity is amusing. The simple fact is that Abrahamic faiths are seeped in the idea of telling people what is right and demanding that they abide by their right to do so, even when it would be no problem to actually allow people to decide for themselves.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Mapletree Croydon 30 Sep 15 12.59pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 30 Sep 2015 12.11pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 30 Sep 2015 12.04pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 30 Sep 2015 11.56am
Sorry Sarge..... the great all seeing one has spoken, so we'll have to rethink.
Things would be more interesting if, instead of a re-think, you just had a think before you posted first time around.
You try to kid everyone that you know so much more than everyone else but you are rude and antagonistic as well as condescending. Think about that.
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| Mapletree Croydon 30 Sep 15 1.04pm |
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As you say, it has no place in decision making and can only act divisively. Judaism,Islam, Catholicism or whoever, it makes no difference to me. It's all the same. I just can't believe we are having to deal with this stuff in 2015. --------------------------------------------- For you see I practice cerebral hygiene and therefore only read articles written by people that agree with me. It takes a lot of stress out of modern life and allows me to focus on the objective truth.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Sep 15 1.04pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 30 Sep 2015 11.09am
Quote Sg Bilko at 30 Sep 2015 11.05am
The way I see it is, Europe as a whole is a predominantly Christian society and has been for many hundreds of years, and if other ethnic religions want to come and live amongst us they are welcome but they have to learn tolerance towards the Christian ways and adjust to our ways, just like we have to when we go to their Counties. I'm a frequent visitor to Egypt, and no way would I even try to force my Christian beliefs on them, if I did I would very quickly find myself in chains and thrown into their hellhole of a prison, and I've seen that done in Sharm-el-Sheikh to three Russians, and Egyptians don't invite you politely, your aggressively manhandled, and they are a very tolerant society compared to most others.
I am an atheist myself, but agree that our society is based on Christian beliefs, so visitors should respect that fact.[/quote] I'm an atheist, I reject the notion that Christian beliefs have any more validity than Muslim ones in determining how people's right to choose and live. Something the churches of England don't agree to with. They've always been defenders of stupid moral laws that simply have caused misery decade on decade and suffering for people who don't even have the same beliefs. Its not difficult either. If you don't want, say, an abortion, don't have one. If you don't want to have sex with someone of the same gender, don't do it. Don't want to get stoned, then don't take a hit from the bong and so on. That is all multi-culturalism actually requires. Not expecting other people to be you, and allowing people to be themselves, even if its stupid or reckless or against your selected probably nonexistent entities so called book and laws.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| sydtheeagle England 30 Sep 15 2.04pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Sep 2015 1.04pm
I'm an atheist, I reject the notion that Christian beliefs have any more validity than Muslim ones in determining how people's right to choose and live. It's worth remembering that the C of E is presently mid-schism and doesn't even agree within itself how people should live.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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Sg Bilko  Deurne Holland 30 Sep 15 2.47pm |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 30 Sep 2015 12.04pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 30 Sep 2015 11.56am
Sorry Sarge..... the great all seeing one has spoken, so we'll have to rethink.
Things would be more interesting if, instead of a re-think, you just had a think before you posted first time around. OOW Hoof you've been burned.
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| Sg Bilko Deurne Holland 30 Sep 15 2.51pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Sep 2015 12.57pm
Quote Sg Bilko at 30 Sep 2015 11.05am
The way I see it is, Europe as a whole is a predominantly Christian society and has been for many hundreds of years, and if other ethnic religions want to come and live amongst us they are welcome but they have to learn tolerance towards the Christian ways and adjust to our ways, just like we have to when we go to their Counties. I'm a frequent visitor to Egypt, and no way would I even try to force my Christian beliefs on them, if I did I would very quickly find myself in chains and thrown into their hellhole of a prison, and I've seen that done in Sharm-el-Sheikh to three Russians, and Egyptians don't invite you politely, your aggressively manhandled, and they are a very tolerant society compared to most others. Thing is, I've never actually experienced any attempt by Muslims to convert me or otherwise force their views on me, despite living in an area that has a sizable Muslim population. But there have been three visits in five years from the two 'evangelical' church asking if 'I'd be interested in hearing the good word' and a visit from the 'holy high pants of nonsense' brigade (Mormans). Our 'Christian Traditions' are essentially the product of a King having 'had enough of religious interference' in the domination of state, and deciding to resolve a four hundred year old problem. And yet, still that elimination of the power of religion, resulted in the Church of England and ultimately Anglican faiths coming about, and still ending up trying to decide for everyone how they should live and behave. Of course the irony of people defending a migrant belief system, that has its basis in militancy, and the middle east, as being rightfully the 'dominant faith' of the country and thus dismissing an older, and related faith, with the same god, as having any validity is amusing. The simple fact is that Abrahamic faiths are seeped in the idea of telling people what is right and demanding that they abide by their right to do so, even when it would be no problem to actually allow people to decide for themselves. They might have different views but they still have Christian values.
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| Dweeb East London 30 Sep 15 3.20pm |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 30 Sep 2015 2.04pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Sep 2015 1.04pm
I'm an atheist, I reject the notion that Christian beliefs have any more validity than Muslim ones in determining how people's right to choose and live. It's worth remembering that the C of E is presently mid-schism and doesn't even agree within itself how people should live. Surely every one has values, they do not need to be attrributed to "faith". It's just being a decent human being. Whilst I wouldn't usually give a scum fan the time of day that doesn't mean I am being Christian if I did just because it measures up to someone else's idea of something. Also, not that I am anything but anti-religous, but hold on, half of the so called Christian religous "festivals" were in fact someone else's to start with. Christmas isn't anything but Saturnalia (a Roman God) in a different guise, and wasn't celebrated until some Pope decided it would be hundreds of yeasr later. Who knows when some poor bloke called Jesus was actually nailed to a wooden cross - well no one in Eurpose as the date changes every year. Protestants argue with Catholics, Greek Orthodox argue with others. Actually any "orthodox" argues with everyone one. Islam is divided into at least two camps without even mentioning the sub-groupings. If you took religion out of more than half of the world's conflicts in the 20th Century and beyond then the so called reason for the trouble in the first place would simply disappear.
Taking the Sorry to see Lee Hills go, did we ever see Alex Marrow? We did January 2013 |
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bungy jump since 1964. Never to see John Jackson in a 
| Dweeb East London 30 Sep 15 3.25pm |
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Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 9.58am
Quote moaner at 29 Sep 2015 9.49am
Quote sydtheeagle at 28 Sep 2015 9.59pm
Quote moaner at 28 Sep 2015 9.48pm
You are talking a load of rubbish, what right or left wingers have got to do with it I don't know. Nor do I. And I agree with your point. Nonetheless, if you bother to read the many pages in this thread (hard going, I admit) you'll note that those who think Muslims, racists, people from Peckham and other minorities have something "to do with it" all happen to be right wingers.
PS I am not responsible for the last bit being in a colour, the syntax says it should be off. Edited by Dweeb (30 Sep 2015 3.29pm)
Taking the Sorry to see Lee Hills go, did we ever see Alex Marrow? We did January 2013 |
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. Then we can all know where we stand.
| sydtheeagle England 30 Sep 15 3.29pm |
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Quote Dweeb at 30 Sep 2015 3.20pm
Surely every one has values, they do not need to be attrributed to "faith". It's just being a decent human being. Whilst I wouldn't usually give a scum fan the time of day that doesn't mean I am being Christian if I did just because it measures up to someone else's idea of something. Also, not that I am anything but anti-religous, but hold on, half of the so called Christian religous "festivals" were in fact someone else's to start with. Christmas isn't anything but Saturnalia (a Roman God) in a different guise, and wasn't celebrated until some Pope decided it would be hundreds of yeasr later. Who knows when some poor bloke called Jesus was actually nailed to a wooden cross - well no one in Eurpose as the date changes every year. Protestants argue with Catholics, Greek Orthodox argue with others. Actually any "orthodox" argues with everyone one. Islam is divided into at least two camps without even mentioning the sub-groupings. If you took religion out of more than half of the world's conflicts in the 20th Century and beyond then the so called reason for the trouble in the first place would simply disappear. I think there are probably two answers to that. First, even though I agree with your latter point, the reality is that religion is here to stay so even if things might be better if it disappeared, it's not going to. Therefore, we have to find (in part through debate) a way to accommodate it peacefully. Second, and I am not religious myself, for all the harm you point out, I don't think we can deny that Christian (and other religious) values have also been a force for good. The shared values of religious communities that are vested in schools, hospitals, etc. (often free) have generally played an enormously beneficial role in society. The church has also played a critical counter-role in many countries that have been politically subjugated; it's not without reason that Stalin obsessed over destroying the Catholic Church in much of Eastern Europe. Just saying it's not all black and white.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Sep 15 3.31pm |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 30 Sep 2015 2.04pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Sep 2015 1.04pm
I'm an atheist, I reject the notion that Christian beliefs have any more validity than Muslim ones in determining how people's right to choose and live. It's worth remembering that the C of E is presently mid-schism and doesn't even agree within itself how people should live. Well except when it comes to urging MPs and followers to oppose say 'assisted suicide' etc. There in lies the problem not that an organization has to state 'do this', but that it can use a democratic process in order to exert its will by getting its supporters to pressure, lobby and vote to determine how people will be allowed to live. For example, on Assisted Suicide. The outcome, is that many MPs followed their 'religious convictions' and voted against the bill, and in doing so, removed the right to choose from everyone else, and call it democracy (when in fact its not its a passive repression of freedom of the individual). Democracy to be real, must allow wherever possible, people to decide for themselves how to live their life, rather than have a majority in the position to dictate what is permitted (obviously where there in no clear consensus in society, the choice should be with the individual, not the majority).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 30 Sep 15 3.37pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Sep 2015 12.57pm
Quote Sg Bilko at 30 Sep 2015 11.05am
The way I see it is, Europe as a whole is a predominantly Christian society and has been for many hundreds of years, and if other ethnic religions want to come and live amongst us they are welcome but they have to learn tolerance towards the Christian ways and adjust to our ways, just like we have to when we go to their Counties. I'm a frequent visitor to Egypt, and no way would I even try to force my Christian beliefs on them, if I did I would very quickly find myself in chains and thrown into their hellhole of a prison, and I've seen that done in Sharm-el-Sheikh to three Russians, and Egyptians don't invite you politely, your aggressively manhandled, and they are a very tolerant society compared to most others. Thing is, I've never actually experienced any attempt by Muslims to convert me or otherwise force their views on me, despite living in an area that has a sizable Muslim population. But there have been three visits in five years from the two 'evangelical' church asking if 'I'd be interested in hearing the good word' and a visit from the 'holy high pants of nonsense' brigade (Mormans). Our 'Christian Traditions' are essentially the product of a King having 'had enough of religious interference' in the domination of state, and deciding to resolve a four hundred year old problem. And yet, still that elimination of the power of religion, resulted in the Church of England and ultimately Anglican faiths coming about, and still ending up trying to decide for everyone how they should live and behave. Of course the irony of people defending a migrant belief system, that has its basis in militancy, and the middle east, as being rightfully the 'dominant faith' of the country and thus dismissing an older, and related faith, with the same god, as having any validity is amusing. The simple fact is that Abrahamic faiths are seeped in the idea of telling people what is right and demanding that they abide by their right to do so, even when it would be no problem to actually allow people to decide for themselves. You are making far too much sense lately Jamie. It is laughable when we defend one religion by attacking another.
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