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Asian family are driven from their home...

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 05 Oct 15 5.01pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 Oct 2015 10.09am

Quote pefwin at 04 Oct 2015 5.09pm


DNA is about race and ethnicity, yet your excuse is about religion. You seem to want conflate the two, I don't trust people like that it smacks of 1940s.


Not really its not. Firstly modern population genetics dismissed the idea of race as having any valid scientific basis or value, and ethnicity is generated through social discourse.

Genes are important to DNA and development, not race. There is too much consistency across 'racial groups' and too my diversity within them for race to be anything more than an observer bias.


I would disagree even the most light weight sources would state that ethnic groups come from a similar gene pool.

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 Oct 15 9.55am

Quote pefwin at 05 Oct 2015 5.01pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 Oct 2015 10.09am

Quote pefwin at 04 Oct 2015 5.09pm


DNA is about race and ethnicity, yet your excuse is about religion. You seem to want conflate the two, I don't trust people like that it smacks of 1940s.


Not really its not. Firstly modern population genetics dismissed the idea of race as having any valid scientific basis or value, and ethnicity is generated through social discourse.

Genes are important to DNA and development, not race. There is too much consistency across 'racial groups' and too my diversity within them for race to be anything more than an observer bias.


I would disagree even the most light weight sources would state that ethnic groups come from a similar gene pool.

Well firstly, ethnicity is defined socially and culturally, not biologically. People within ethnic groups may share genes, but they also share them with individuals outside of that ethnic group, which makes it a meaningless correlation.

You'd have to have a 'very broad definition' of a particular ethnicity to have value (for example it is true that certain Norwegian males carry a gene that increases the risk of collapsed lungs, but its also true that is not specific to people only from Norway, but anyone, male, who has any kind of genetic material in their make up from Norwegians (so that's all of Europe by the 1200. Then those decendents also colonized most of the world, and spread genetic material where ever they went. A large number of Scandinavians emigrated to Australia and New Zealand and US.

Now that Norwegian anectode is applicable to every country. No matter how much people might claim to be 'racially pure' they're talking out their ass on a genetic basis. Those factions in Rwanda, were ethnically diverse, but in no way genetically diverse.


Edited by jamiemartin721 (06 Oct 2015 9.58am)

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 Oct 15 10.04am

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 05 Oct 2015 4.20pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 Oct 2015 2.49pm

Quote npn at 05 Oct 2015 12.29pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 Oct 2015 10.17am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 03 Oct 2015 11.18am

Quote susmik at 03 Oct 2015 11.12am

Quote nickgusset at 03 Oct 2015 10.56am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 03 Oct 2015 10.46am

Lefties won't believe this story Matt.... it's from the Daily Mail.

Strange though that they believed the story about Cameron and the pig.... which was also a Daily Mail story?

Double standards nick?

It's a shame. Goes to show how f***ed up religion can be.


Muslims AGAIN..........Why do they cause so much trouble in the world?


It's in their DNA.

When we ran India, the Muslim servants were the most troublesome.... the Hindus and Sikhs were pussy cats in comparison.

What other religion has a holy book encouraging it's followers to kill "non believers" ?

Doesn't the old testament have something about that. Something as well about smiting your son if he offends you and so on.

Pretty sure you can find justification for killing people in all three of the key Abrahamic texts.



Doesn't the old testament become null and void to a degree with the coming of Christ and the new covenant of the New Testament though? I'm no theologist, but I though that was the deal - certainly the old is far more hell-fire and brimstone, whereas the new is more peace, love, and understanding.

Depends who you ask. I think that there is a reason why the old testament was kept, and that's because you could selectively justify all manner of evil and very unchristian s**t, that clearly Jesus would have not been down with.

Peace love and understanding aren't a means for control and profit, but fear, hate and cruelty definitely are.


So the Bible is rather like good cop bad cop.

I hadn't thought of it like that before.

The old Testament is more Bad Cop death squad cop. But yeah, definitely, there's an argument to be made that if you take the New Testament, then it becomes very hard to justify things like the Catholic and Protestant faiths, and it becomes a more mystic/gnostic faith.

The idea of Christianity as we know it now is really the product of the Catholic and early churches persecution of 'heresy'.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 06 Oct 15 8.10pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

The following is a serious question.

How do Muslims feel about Allah taking a 6yr old bride, how do they feel about the fact women are treated as 2nd class citizens, a religion that says a man can beat his wife, a religion that says a woman can only inherit half of a what a male relative can. A religion that says a woman's word is not worth the same as a man when in legal dispute?
I understand this is a 1200 yr old book (koran), but it hasn't been altered once, so do they pick and choose what they adhere to? Do they change their views when they become parents of girls? Do they feel that Islam and politics needs to be separated in Islamic countries?

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 06 Oct 15 8.28pm

Quote 7mins at 06 Oct 2015 8.10pm

The following is a serious question.

How do Muslims feel about Allah taking a 6yr old bride, how do they feel about the fact women are treated as 2nd class citizens, a religion that says a man can beat his wife, a religion that says a woman can only inherit half of a what a male relative can. A religion that says a woman's word is not worth the same as a man when in legal dispute?
I understand this is a 1200 yr old book (koran), but it hasn't been altered once, so do they pick and choose what they adhere to? Do they change their views when they become parents of girls? Do they feel that Islam and politics needs to be separated in Islamic countries?

I imagine that there'd be a wide range of viewpoints. Alongside that a wide range of interpretation depending on what 'branch' of Islam interprets the points.

Much the same as any group id imagine.

 

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View oldcodger's Profile oldcodger Flag 06 Oct 15 8.38pm Send a Private Message to oldcodger Add oldcodger as a friend

Quote 7mins at 06 Oct 2015 8.10pm

The following is a serious question.

How do Muslims feel about Allah taking a 6yr old bride, how do they feel about the fact women are treated as 2nd class citizens, a religion that says a man can beat his wife, a religion that says a woman can only inherit half of a what a male relative can. A religion that says a woman's word is not worth the same as a man when in legal dispute?
I understand this is a 1200 yr old book (koran), but it hasn't been altered once, so do they pick and choose what they adhere to? Do they change their views when they become parents of girls? Do they feel that Islam and politics needs to be separated in Islamic countries?

Like every other religion then. Christianity has its fair share on loony tunes stuff and thankfully people tend to just ignore that now or claim it was only relevant at the time. It has changed very gradually though and without overwhemlimg hostility to it in the process.

This finger pointing 'what do muslims think' in a place where there don't even appear to be any muslims isn't actually looking or answers, or commonality.

Edited by oldcodger (06 Oct 2015 8.39pm)

 

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 06 Oct 15 9.12pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Quote oldcodger at 06 Oct 2015 8.38pm

Quote 7mins at 06 Oct 2015 8.10pm

The following is a serious question.

How do Muslims feel about Allah taking a 6yr old bride, how do they feel about the fact women are treated as 2nd class citizens, a religion that says a man can beat his wife, a religion that says a woman can only inherit half of a what a male relative can. A religion that says a woman's word is not worth the same as a man when in legal dispute?
I understand this is a 1200 yr old book (koran), but it hasn't been altered once, so do they pick and choose what they adhere to? Do they change their views when they become parents of girls? Do they feel that Islam and politics needs to be separated in Islamic countries?

Like every other religion then. Christianity has its fair share on loony tunes stuff and thankfully people tend to just ignore that now or claim it was only relevant at the time. It has changed very gradually though and without overwhemlimg hostility to it in the process.

This finger pointing 'what do muslims think' in a place where there don't even appear to be any muslims isn't actually looking or answers, or commonality.

Edited by oldcodger (06 Oct 2015 8.39pm)


I have no idea if there are muslims here, do you?

 

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 06 Oct 15 9.15pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Quote oldcodger at 06 Oct 2015 8.38pm

Quote 7mins at 06 Oct 2015 8.10pm

The following is a serious question.

How do Muslims feel about Allah taking a 6yr old bride, how do they feel about the fact women are treated as 2nd class citizens, a religion that says a man can beat his wife, a religion that says a woman can only inherit half of a what a male relative can. A religion that says a woman's word is not worth the same as a man when in legal dispute?
I understand this is a 1200 yr old book (koran), but it hasn't been altered once, so do they pick and choose what they adhere to? Do they change their views when they become parents of girls? Do they feel that Islam and politics needs to be separated in Islamic countries?

Like every other religion then. Christianity has its fair share on loony tunes stuff and thankfully people tend to just ignore that now or claim it was only relevant at the time. It has changed very gradually though and without overwhemlimg hostility to it in the process.

This finger pointing 'what do muslims think' in a place where there don't even appear to be any muslims isn't actually looking or answers, or commonality.

Edited by oldcodger (06 Oct 2015 8.39pm)


I find what-abouty arguments silly.

 

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View oldcodger's Profile oldcodger Flag 06 Oct 15 9.44pm Send a Private Message to oldcodger Add oldcodger as a friend

Quote 7mins at 06 Oct 2015 9.15pm

Quote oldcodger at 06 Oct 2015 8.38pm

Quote 7mins at 06 Oct 2015 8.10pm

The following is a serious question.

How do Muslims feel about Allah taking a 6yr old bride, how do they feel about the fact women are treated as 2nd class citizens, a religion that says a man can beat his wife, a religion that says a woman can only inherit half of a what a male relative can. A religion that says a woman's word is not worth the same as a man when in legal dispute?
I understand this is a 1200 yr old book (koran), but it hasn't been altered once, so do they pick and choose what they adhere to? Do they change their views when they become parents of girls? Do they feel that Islam and politics needs to be separated in Islamic countries?

Like every other religion then. Christianity has its fair share on loony tunes stuff and thankfully people tend to just ignore that now or claim it was only relevant at the time. It has changed very gradually though and without overwhemlimg hostility to it in the process.

This finger pointing 'what do muslims think' in a place where there don't even appear to be any muslims isn't actually looking or answers, or commonality.

Edited by oldcodger (06 Oct 2015 8.39pm)


I find what-abouty arguments silly.

Good for you.

 

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View JL85's Profile JL85 Flag London,SE9 06 Oct 15 10.54pm Send a Private Message to JL85 Add JL85 as a friend

Quote 7mins at 06 Oct 2015 8.10pm

The following is a serious question.

How do Muslims feel about Allah taking a 6yr old bride, how do they feel about the fact women are treated as 2nd class citizens, a religion that says a man can beat his wife, a religion that says a woman can only inherit half of a what a male relative can. A religion that says a woman's word is not worth the same as a man when in legal dispute?
I understand this is a 1200 yr old book (koran), but it hasn't been altered once, so do they pick and choose what they adhere to? Do they change their views when they become parents of girls? Do they feel that Islam and politics needs to be separated in Islamic countries?

I actually debated these points with a Muslim colleague once. He was a diehard believer but liberal enough not to take offence at the line of questioning.

He genuinely believed that forcing a woman to cover up showed that Islam had more respect for women than western countries who allowed them to get their tits out on tele. I argued the difference being we give them the choice, which he dismissed saying we objectify them where as they respect their modesty.


He also said that the fact that Mohammed walked into the desert illiterate and walked back out some years later having written the Koran is undeniable truth that God exists. I asked how and he repeated his words slowly like I had missed the point.


I asked about heaven and hell, which was interesting. Basically, atheists are at the front of Allah's queue for hell, because we believe in nothing and Jews, Christians and Muslims will all go to heaven, which surprised me.

I mentioned that someone's religion of choice is normally something that's been indoctrinated into them from a young age, how can such an almighty device being be so short sighted that he would punish a child raised by atheists who died young? He shrugged his shoulders at that.

Then we got on to the Universe, Aliens and the ending of the TV show "Lost".

All this is one blokes take and we were smoking a joint at the time, but it was interesting none the less.

Edited by JL85 (06 Oct 2015 10.55pm)

 

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View palace777's Profile palace777 Flag belfast 06 Oct 15 11.50pm Send a Private Message to palace777 Add palace777 as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 04 Oct 2015 8.57pm

Quote matt_himself at 04 Oct 2015 7.25pm

Quote Kermit8 at 04 Oct 2015 7.21pm

Re:Victorian times and Christian extremism. It did happen.

I remember an episode of 'Little House on the Prairie' when most of the locals rejected a family for not being godly even though they were perfectly nice and were continually ostracised until Charles and his halo stepped in to show the townspeople the error of their intolerant ways.

Edited by Kermit8 (04 Oct 2015 7.22pm)

You really have become a broken record. Yawn.


Actually....thinking about it, it was The Waltons.


I'm sure it was the Nolans!

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Oct 15 10.36am

Quote 7mins at 06 Oct 2015 8.10pm

The following is a serious question.

How do Muslims feel about Allah taking a 6yr old bride, how do they feel about the fact women are treated as 2nd class citizens, a religion that says a man can beat his wife, a religion that says a woman can only inherit half of a what a male relative can. A religion that says a woman's word is not worth the same as a man when in legal dispute?
I understand this is a 1200 yr old book (koran), but it hasn't been altered once, so do they pick and choose what they adhere to? Do they change their views when they become parents of girls? Do they feel that Islam and politics needs to be separated in Islamic countries?

I don't think Allah took a 6 year old bride, I think that was Mohammed. Common practice back then in the Middle East. I'd be wary of anyone who considered it acceptable now, or in any way justified. Thinking about it, people in the UK around the dark ages and later were married off young in the nobility.

The issue with women, I tend to think both western society and the middle east, tend to treat women as second class citizens. Yes, in the UK you have more choice say 'to get your tits out on TV', but its still very much a case that women are 'objectified' and the degree to 'which its a choice' is questionable. If you want a career in acting and media, then certainly those FHM photo shoots are a choice, but its largely a very loaded one (i.e. as an actress your career is very dependent on attractiveness).

There is a reason why Kathy Burke has never been approached to do flashy action movie blockbusters, despite being an fantastic actress.

We place a great emphasis on 'freedom', and rightly so, but we don't necessarily see the pressure that gets levied in influencing choice. We spend a lot of money 'influencing choice'.

Of course in a lot of Islamic countries, that demand of modesty is also used to objectify woman and control them, its hard to see Saudi Arabia as anything other than a regime that objectifies women as possessions of men, and oppresses them excessively.

Arguably I'd say on reflection, women have more choice here of course, which includes the right to obey Muslim rules or not. Maybe the difference here of course is that you can be objectified for your own benefit or gain. I wouldn't regard the UK as seeing women as the equal of men.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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