Pensioners up next on the Government hit list?

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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Oct 15 11.04am
Thatcher went offshore? Fvcking hell. Unpatriotic bitch. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 05 Oct 15 11.04am

Thatcher went offshore? Fvcking hell. Unpatriotic bitch.

Big chest and massive boobs

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npn Crowborough 05 Oct 15 11.07am
I'm all for means testing (provided it's economically viable - i.e. provided it will not cost more to administer than the amount gained). However, I cannot understand why a group like the tax payers alliance aren't frankly DEMANDING that the government starts taking the bull by the horns and address the holes in the tax system which lead to so much avoidance and evasion, and also to stop and, if possible, reverse the decisions to write-off multi-million pound debts from large companies. Cuts are fine as long as they are warranted, but the government currently seem myopic about where the changes should be directed - the deficit is the difference between revenues coming in and payments going out - you should be examining both sides of that equation. Cut unnecessary benefits by all means, but also address the deficiencies in the tax revenue coming in to ensure everyone large or small pays their fair share
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npn

Crowborough 05 Oct 15 11.07am

I'm all for means testing (provided it's economically viable - i.e. provided it will not cost more to administer than the amount gained).

However, I cannot understand why a group like the tax payers alliance aren't frankly DEMANDING that the government starts taking the bull by the horns and address the holes in the tax system which lead to so much avoidance and evasion, and also to stop and, if possible, reverse the decisions to write-off multi-million pound debts from large companies.

Cuts are fine as long as they are warranted, but the government currently seem myopic about where the changes should be directed - the deficit is the difference between revenues coming in and payments going out - you should be examining both sides of that equation. Cut unnecessary benefits by all means, but also address the deficiencies in the tax revenue coming in to ensure everyone large or small pays their fair share

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Hoof Hearted 05 Oct 15 11.08am
Quote Mapletree at 05 Oct 2015 10.56am You are choosing to miss the point. Final salary pension schemes have emasculated many august organisations. Unfortunately businesses didn't react quickly enough, I remember specifically telling the CEO of a FTSE 100 company to deal with it and he refused - burying his head in the sand. So now big business - instead of investing for the future - is trying to repay debts that were created when actuarial reviews showed they didn't anywhere near have coverage. And that includes for example the big accountancy houses - if they got it wrong what hope other businesses. Now it's too late to do anything about that but we can at least acknowledge that there is a generation that effectively retired too early and stop featherbedding them. This is a class divide thing. Those further down the chain probably didn't retire too early, if they worked manually they may have struggled to keep working. Those at the top of the chain have ended up taking the money and running to the sun despite having many years more work left in them. And by the way unless you are at least 88 you can't have fought in the Second World War, there is nothing special about the generation of recently-retired people that are holding so much of the country's wealth. I'm not missing any point thank you. At what point in history were you appointed to decide how private companies or individuals spent their money or saved it? You are lecturing me on pension schemes and I spent 32 years in the Industry! You cannot arbitrarily take away peoples wealth, forcing them out of their homes just because you don't think it's fair! As I said before, you need to target the public sector "spongers" not those in the private sector that actually generate the wealth of this country. I never said anything about fighting in WWII... it wasn't a picnic for anyone of any age and the lean years thereafter were just as hard. I agree with you only in that benefits should be means tested and not dished out to those not in need. A lot of pensioners I know give their winter fuel allowance to charity anyway... so you'll be hitting them as well. Very complex thing trying to run an economy fairly.
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Hoof Hearted 05 Oct 15 11.08am

Quote Mapletree at 05 Oct 2015 10.56am

You are choosing to miss the point.

Final salary pension schemes have emasculated many august organisations. Unfortunately businesses didn't react quickly enough, I remember specifically telling the CEO of a FTSE 100 company to deal with it and he refused - burying his head in the sand.

So now big business - instead of investing for the future - is trying to repay debts that were created when actuarial reviews showed they didn't anywhere near have coverage. And that includes for example the big accountancy houses - if they got it wrong what hope other businesses.

Now it's too late to do anything about that but we can at least acknowledge that there is a generation that effectively retired too early and stop featherbedding them.

This is a class divide thing. Those further down the chain probably didn't retire too early, if they worked manually they may have struggled to keep working. Those at the top of the chain have ended up taking the money and running to the sun despite having many years more work left in them.

And by the way unless you are at least 88 you can't have fought in the Second World War, there is nothing special about the generation of recently-retired people that are holding so much of the country's wealth.

I'm not missing any point thank you.

At what point in history were you appointed to decide how private companies or individuals spent their money or saved it?

You are lecturing me on pension schemes and I spent 32 years in the Industry!

You cannot arbitrarily take away peoples wealth, forcing them out of their homes just because you don't think it's fair!

As I said before, you need to target the public sector "spongers" not those in the private sector that actually generate the wealth of this country.

I never said anything about fighting in WWII... it wasn't a picnic for anyone of any age and the lean years thereafter were just as hard.

I agree with you only in that benefits should be means tested and not dished out to those not in need. A lot of pensioners I know give their winter fuel allowance to charity anyway... so you'll be hitting them as well.

Very complex thing trying to run an economy fairly.

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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 05 Oct 15 11.09am
Quote Mapletree at 05 Oct 2015 10.56am You are choosing to miss the point. Final salary pension schemes have emasculated many august organisations. Unfortunately businesses didn't react quickly enough, I remember specifically telling the CEO of a FTSE 100 company to deal with it and he refused - burying his head in the sand. So now big business - instead of investing for the future - is trying to repay debts that were created when actuarial reviews showed they didn't anywhere near have coverage. And that includes for example the big accountancy houses - if they got it wrong what hope other businesses. Now it's too late to do anything about that but we can at least acknowledge that there is a generation that effectively retired too early and stop featherbedding them. This is a class divide thing. Those further down the chain probably didn't retire too early, if they worked manually they may have struggled to keep working. Those at the top of the chain have ended up taking the money and running to the sun despite having many years more work left in them. And by the way unless you are at least 88 you can't have fought in the Second World War, there is nothing special about the generation of recently-retired people that are holding so much of the country's wealth. Firstly who said I fought in the war???? I was born during the latter part of WW2 and am 72 yrs old. As a child I and thousands of other kids were lucky to get an orange and an apple in a Christmas stocking....Because e they were hard to get on rationing. I started work at 15 years old and travelled by train from Coulsdon South station to charring cross station every day in the rush hour. The job I had meant I had to do it but I did not complain. I agree some pensioners do not need some of the benefits they get like Ex pats who live in Spain should not get winter fuel allowance. As for a bus pass I never use it as I have my own car and prefer to travel that way due to health reasons. I only wish that people would sit back and think before they slag of the older generation..... As they themselves will be old and will understand more than they do now. Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.
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susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 05 Oct 15 11.09am

Quote Mapletree at 05 Oct 2015 10.56am

You are choosing to miss the point.

Now it's too late to do anything about that but we can at least acknowledge that there is a generation that effectively retired too early and stop featherbedding them.

And by the way unless you are at least 88 you can't have fought in the Second World War, there is nothing special about the generation of recently-retired people that are holding so much of the country's wealth.

Firstly who said I fought in the war???? I was born during the latter part of WW2 and am 72 yrs old. As a child I and thousands of other kids were lucky to get an orange and an apple in a Christmas stocking....Because e they were hard to get on rationing. I started work at 15 years old and travelled by train from Coulsdon South station to charring cross station every day in the rush hour. The job I had meant I had to do it but I did not complain. I agree some pensioners do not need some of the benefits they get like Ex pats who live in Spain should not get winter fuel allowance. As for a bus pass I never use it as I have my own car and prefer to travel that way due to health reasons. I only wish that people would sit back and think before they slag of the older generation..... As they themselves will be old and will understand more than they do now.

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Oct 15 11.10am
Quote npn at 05 Oct 2015 11.07am I'm all for means testing (provided it's economically viable - i.e. provided it will not cost more to administer than the amount gained). However, I cannot understand why a group like the tax payers alliance aren't frankly DEMANDING that the government starts taking the bull by the horns and address the holes in the tax system which lead to so much avoidance and evasion, and also to stop and, if possible, reverse the decisions to write-off multi-million pound debts from large companies. Cuts are fine as long as they are warranted, but the government currently seem myopic about where the changes should be directed - the deficit is the difference between revenues coming in and payments going out - you should be examining both sides of that equation. Cut unnecessary benefits by all means, but also address the deficiencies in the tax revenue coming in to ensure everyone large or small pays their fair share We'll need a prudent left-winger in charge to get that done. It's just not in the Tory DNA. In fact, I think they secretly admire the tax avoiders. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 05 Oct 15 11.10am

Quote npn at 05 Oct 2015 11.07am

I'm all for means testing (provided it's economically viable - i.e. provided it will not cost more to administer than the amount gained).

We'll need a prudent left-winger in charge to get that done. It's just not in the Tory DNA. In fact, I think they secretly admire the tax avoiders.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Hoof Hearted 05 Oct 15 11.13am
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Oct 2015 11.10am Quote npn at 05 Oct 2015 11.07am I'm all for means testing (provided it's economically viable - i.e. provided it will not cost more to administer than the amount gained). However, I cannot understand why a group like the tax payers alliance aren't frankly DEMANDING that the government starts taking the bull by the horns and address the holes in the tax system which lead to so much avoidance and evasion, and also to stop and, if possible, reverse the decisions to write-off multi-million pound debts from large companies. Cuts are fine as long as they are warranted, but the government currently seem myopic about where the changes should be directed - the deficit is the difference between revenues coming in and payments going out - you should be examining both sides of that equation. Cut unnecessary benefits by all means, but also address the deficiencies in the tax revenue coming in to ensure everyone large or small pays their fair share We'll need a prudent left-winger in charge to get that done. It's just not in the Tory DNA. In fact, I think they secretly admire the tax avoiders. Pefwin..... Pefwin..... He's being Racist!!!!
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Hoof Hearted 05 Oct 15 11.13am

Quote Kermit8 at 05 Oct 2015 11.10am

Quote npn at 05 Oct 2015 11.07am

I'm all for means testing (provided it's economically viable - i.e. provided it will not cost more to administer than the amount gained).

We'll need a prudent left-winger in charge to get that done. It's just not in the Tory DNA. In fact, I think they secretly admire the tax avoiders.

Pefwin..... Pefwin..... He's being Racist!!!!

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aquickgame2 Beni = summer,Caribbean = winter 05 Oct 15 11.14am
Quote susmik at 05 Oct 2015 10.55am Quote matt_himself at 05 Oct 2015 9.35am Quote Kermit8 at 05 Oct 2015 7.25am [Link] 1) "because they might die before the next election so can't vote." 2) "because they will probably forget who did it to them" What a delightful group. What an unintelligent post. Pensioners are the richest age group in the country. Benefits are universal and not means tested, as a result the poorest pensioners get the same as those who go on regular cruises. The fact is that that universal benefits for pensioners is not fair. The system needs reviewing and change. I suppose then that all the public service workers are OK to get their gold plated pensions when they retire? I am not alone on these boards as a "fully paid up" pensioner. We had our rough times in our youth and had to fight to get a mortgage and a job but we did it instead of just bleating about hard done we were. We did not have all the technology that is around today and we still brought up our children in a decent manner. If more youngsters and some older people got off their fat behinds and actually went out looking they would find a job and start like we had to.... from the bottom rung!! Now this is a real spot bollock
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aquickgame2

Beni = summer,Caribbean = winter 05 Oct 15 11.14am

Quote susmik at 05 Oct 2015 10.55am

Quote matt_himself at 05 Oct 2015 9.35am

Quote Kermit8 at 05 Oct 2015 7.25am

[Link]

1) "because they might die before the next election so can't vote."

2) "because they will probably forget who did it to them"

What a delightful group.

What an unintelligent post.

Pensioners are the richest age group in the country. Benefits are universal and not means tested, as a result the poorest pensioners get the same as those who go on regular cruises.

The fact is that that universal benefits for pensioners is not fair. The system needs reviewing and change.

I suppose then that all the public service workers are OK to get their gold plated pensions when they retire?
I am not alone on these boards as a "fully paid up" pensioner. We had our rough times in our youth and had to fight to get a mortgage and a job but we did it instead of just bleating about hard done we were. We did not have all the technology that is around today and we still brought up our children in a decent manner. If more youngsters and some older people got off their fat behinds and actually went out looking they would find a job and start like we had to.... from the bottom rung!!

Now this is a real spot bollock

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Mapletree Croydon 05 Oct 15 11.15am
Didn't slag off the older generation and never would. Just pointing out that many retired people happen to sit on an inequitable situation the likes of which will never be seen again. The convergence of a final salary pension scheme that didn't envisage the longer life spans plus the massive increase in housing value. And the effect is to disadvantage the rest of society and tie up funds. Nothing to do with pensioners, but I don't agree with anyone that says wealthy pensioners should be treated differently from the rest of the population. That is a political point only.
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Mapletree

Croydon 05 Oct 15 11.15am

Didn't slag off the older generation and never would.

Just pointing out that many retired people happen to sit on an inequitable situation the likes of which will never be seen again. The convergence of a final salary pension scheme that didn't envisage the longer life spans plus the massive increase in housing value.

And the effect is to disadvantage the rest of society and tie up funds.

Nothing to do with pensioners, but I don't agree with anyone that says wealthy pensioners should be treated differently from the rest of the population. That is a political point only.

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Hoof Hearted 05 Oct 15 11.16am
Quote aquickgame2 at 05 Oct 2015 11.14am Quote susmik at 05 Oct 2015 10.55am Quote matt_himself at 05 Oct 2015 9.35am Quote Kermit8 at 05 Oct 2015 7.25am [Link] 1) "because they might die before the next election so can't vote." 2) "because they will probably forget who did it to them" What a delightful group. What an unintelligent post. Pensioners are the richest age group in the country. Benefits are universal and not means tested, as a result the poorest pensioners get the same as those who go on regular cruises. The fact is that that universal benefits for pensioners is not fair. The system needs reviewing and change. I suppose then that all the public service workers are OK to get their gold plated pensions when they retire? I am not alone on these boards as a "fully paid up" pensioner. We had our rough times in our youth and had to fight to get a mortgage and a job but we did it instead of just bleating about hard done we were. We did not have all the technology that is around today and we still brought up our children in a decent manner. If more youngsters and some older people got off their fat behinds and actually went out looking they would find a job and start like we had to.... from the bottom rung!! Now this is a real spot bollock Definitely hits the spot!
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Hoof Hearted 05 Oct 15 11.16am

Quote aquickgame2 at 05 Oct 2015 11.14am

Quote susmik at 05 Oct 2015 10.55am

Quote matt_himself at 05 Oct 2015 9.35am

Quote Kermit8 at 05 Oct 2015 7.25am

[Link]

1) "because they might die before the next election so can't vote."

2) "because they will probably forget who did it to them"

What a delightful group.

What an unintelligent post.

Pensioners are the richest age group in the country. Benefits are universal and not means tested, as a result the poorest pensioners get the same as those who go on regular cruises.

The fact is that that universal benefits for pensioners is not fair. The system needs reviewing and change.

Now this is a real spot bollock

Definitely hits the spot!

Alert a moderator to this post

Kermit8 Hevon 05 Oct 15 11.17am
Quote susmik at 05 Oct 2015 11.09am Quote Mapletree at 05 Oct 2015 10.56am You are choosing to miss the point. Final salary pension schemes have emasculated many august organisations. Unfortunately businesses didn't react quickly enough, I remember specifically telling the CEO of a FTSE 100 company to deal with it and he refused - burying his head in the sand. So now big business - instead of investing for the future - is trying to repay debts that were created when actuarial reviews showed they didn't anywhere near have coverage. And that includes for example the big accountancy houses - if they got it wrong what hope other businesses. Now it's too late to do anything about that but we can at least acknowledge that there is a generation that effectively retired too early and stop featherbedding them. This is a class divide thing. Those further down the chain probably didn't retire too early, if they worked manually they may have struggled to keep working. Those at the top of the chain have ended up taking the money and running to the sun despite having many years more work left in them. And by the way unless you are at least 88 you can't have fought in the Second World War, there is nothing special about the generation of recently-retired people that are holding so much of the country's wealth. Firstly who said I fought in the war???? I was born during the latter part of WW2 and am 72 yrs old. As a child I and thousands of other kids were lucky to get an orange and an apple in a Christmas stocking....Because e they were hard to get on rationing. I started work at 15 years old and travelled by train from Coulsdon South station to charring cross station every day in the rush hour. The job I had meant I had to do it but I did not complain. I agree some pensioners do not need some of the benefits they get like Ex pats who live in Spain should not get winter fuel allowance. As for a bus pass I never use it as I have my own car and prefer to travel that way due to health reasons. I only wish that people would sit back and think before they slag of the older generation..... As they themselves will be old and will understand more than they do now. Well said. My mum and dad had to leave school at 14 and go to work. They didn't have central heating until both were in their forties nor a washing machine. I remember having a mangle ffs My mum now lives prudently mortgage free in a small flat and probably manages to have about �100 a month left over after all the bills and cost of living. Puts a fiver in each of the grandkids bank account and the rest goes on clothes and a day trip here and there. These Tory tits are going after her it looks like. W@nkers. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 05 Oct 15 11.17am

Quote susmik at 05 Oct 2015 11.09am

Quote Mapletree at 05 Oct 2015 10.56am

You are choosing to miss the point.

Now it's too late to do anything about that but we can at least acknowledge that there is a generation that effectively retired too early and stop featherbedding them.

Well said. My mum and dad had to leave school at 14 and go to work. They didn't have central heating until both were in their forties nor a washing machine. I remember having a mangle ffs

My mum now lives prudently mortgage free in a small flat and probably manages to have about �100 a month left over after all the bills and cost of living. Puts a fiver in each of the grandkids bank account and the rest goes on clothes and a day trip here and there. These Tory tits are going after her it looks like. W@nkers.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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silvertop Portishead 05 Oct 15 11.18am
Quote Catfish at 05 Oct 2015 9.05am It appears to be OK to means test pensioners for benefits but also OK to tax them on their property "wealth" whether or not they have the ability to pay. The Tories look set to take on that Lib Dem idea which will mean a person who has an expensive house but little income will be forced to sell up. Good. One elderly lady/man living in a 5 bed house with families trying to get on the market but out priced because of the lack of supply. If it means they sensibly downsize I approve. For the benefit of any doubt, you can flush that sentimental tripe about a house they have lived in all their lives, inheritance for their kids etc. In terms of familiarity, I am aware this will be a shock; however, one more family getting a family house outweighs that point. And as to inheritance, if they had any regard for their kids, they would give them their house.
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silvertop

Portishead 05 Oct 15 11.18am

Quote Catfish at 05 Oct 2015 9.05am

It appears to be OK to means test pensioners for benefits but also OK to tax them on their property "wealth" whether or not they have the ability to pay. The Tories look set to take on that Lib Dem idea which will mean a person who has an expensive house but little income will be forced to sell up.

Good. One elderly lady/man living in a 5 bed house with families trying to get on the market but out priced because of the lack of supply.

If it means they sensibly downsize I approve. For the benefit of any doubt, you can flush that sentimental tripe about a house they have lived in all their lives, inheritance for their kids etc. In terms of familiarity, I am aware this will be a shock; however, one more family getting a family house outweighs that point. And as to inheritance, if they had any regard for their kids, they would give them their house.

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Hoof Hearted 05 Oct 15 11.21am
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Oct 2015 11.17am Quote susmik at 05 Oct 2015 11.09am Quote Mapletree at 05 Oct 2015 10.56am You are choosing to miss the point. Final salary pension schemes have emasculated many august organisations. Unfortunately businesses didn't react quickly enough, I remember specifically telling the CEO of a FTSE 100 company to deal with it and he refused - burying his head in the sand. So now big business - instead of investing for the future - is trying to repay debts that were created when actuarial reviews showed they didn't anywhere near have coverage. And that includes for example the big accountancy houses - if they got it wrong what hope other businesses. Now it's too late to do anything about that but we can at least acknowledge that there is a generation that effectively retired too early and stop featherbedding them. This is a class divide thing. Those further down the chain probably didn't retire too early, if they worked manually they may have struggled to keep working. Those at the top of the chain have ended up taking the money and running to the sun despite having many years more work left in them. And by the way unless you are at least 88 you can't have fought in the Second World War, there is nothing special about the generation of recently-retired people that are holding so much of the country's wealth. Firstly who said I fought in the war???? I was born during the latter part of WW2 and am 72 yrs old. As a child I and thousands of other kids were lucky to get an orange and an apple in a Christmas stocking....Because e they were hard to get on rationing. I started work at 15 years old and travelled by train from Coulsdon South station to charring cross station every day in the rush hour. The job I had meant I had to do it but I did not complain. I agree some pensioners do not need some of the benefits they get like Ex pats who live in Spain should not get winter fuel allowance. As for a bus pass I never use it as I have my own car and prefer to travel that way due to health reasons. I only wish that people would sit back and think before they slag of the older generation..... As they themselves will be old and will understand more than they do now. Well said. My mum and dad had to leave school at 14 and go to work. They didn't have central heating until both were in their forties nor a washing machine. I remember having a mangle ffs My mum now lives prudently mortgage free in a small flat and probably manages to have about �100 a month left over after all the bills and cost of living. Puts a fiver in each of the grandkids bank account and the rest goes on clothes and a day trip here and there. These Tory tits are going after her it looks like. W@nkers. I like the sound of your mum Kermy. Let's hope common sense prevails... but it doesn't help anyone's cause when people start blithely bad mouthing all pensioners as being a bunch of unworthy fat cats.
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Hoof Hearted 05 Oct 15 11.21am

Quote Kermit8 at 05 Oct 2015 11.17am

Quote susmik at 05 Oct 2015 11.09am

Quote Mapletree at 05 Oct 2015 10.56am

You are choosing to miss the point.

Now it's too late to do anything about that but we can at least acknowledge that there is a generation that effectively retired too early and stop featherbedding them.

Well said. My mum and dad had to leave school at 14 and go to work. They didn't have central heating until both were in their forties nor a washing machine. I remember having a mangle ffs

I like the sound of your mum Kermy.

Let's hope common sense prevails... but it doesn't help anyone's cause when people start blithely bad mouthing all pensioners as being a bunch of unworthy fat cats.

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