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Kermit8 Hevon 22 Nov 15 2.43pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 2.06pm [Link] Just seen this article which goes to the heart of the debate regarding the hypocrisy related to this subject. He's an interesting character that Nick Cohen chap and so nearly gets it right in the article but, as in the past, he 'jumps the shark' with base emotion occasionally overriding the truth to get his point across. For example, he was pro the Iraq War and condemned the march against it and blackened the protesters saying they were just opposing the overthrow of a murderous dictator. He said this to slag off the elements of the left he finds nauseating. 1)The march included people from all walks and all political divides so he was barking up the wrong tree there. 2)It (the protest) was more against the future mess that was going to be visited upon the region and the fact that the neo-cons had lied to associate the country with 9/11 whilst ignoring the fact that 19 of hijackers were Saudi. He is a man with an opinion, and he is not anywhere near wrong, but he is too impatient and quite loose with some facts in order to prove himself right. In short, he let's himself down for such a clever chap. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 22 Nov 15 2.43pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 2.06pm

[Link]

Just seen this article which goes to the heart of the debate regarding the hypocrisy related to this subject.

He's an interesting character that Nick Cohen chap and so nearly gets it right in the article but, as in the past, he 'jumps the shark' with base emotion occasionally overriding the truth to get his point across.

For example, he was pro the Iraq War and condemned the march against it and blackened the protesters saying they were just opposing the overthrow of a murderous dictator. He said this to slag off the elements of the left he finds nauseating.

1)The march included people from all walks and all political divides so he was barking up the wrong tree there.

2)It (the protest) was more against the future mess that was going to be visited upon the region and the fact that the neo-cons had lied to associate the country with 9/11 whilst ignoring the fact that 19 of hijackers were Saudi.

He is a man with an opinion, and he is not anywhere near wrong, but he is too impatient and quite loose with some facts in order to prove himself right. In short, he let's himself down for such a clever chap.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 15 3.01pm
Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 2.43pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 2.06pm [Link] Just seen this article which goes to the heart of the debate regarding the hypocrisy related to this subject. He's an interesting character that Nick Cohen chap and so nearly gets it right in the article but, as in the past, he 'jumps the shark' with base emotion occasionally overriding the truth to get his point across. For example, he was pro the Iraq War and condemned the march against it and blackened the protesters saying they were just opposing the overthrow of a murderous dictator. He said this to slag off the elements of the left he finds nauseating. 1)The march included people from all walks and all political divides so he was barking up the wrong tree there. 2)It (the protest) was more against the future mess that was going to be visited upon the region and the fact that the neo-cons had lied to associate the country with 9/11 whilst ignoring the fact that 19 of hijackers were Saudi. He is a man with an opinion, and he is not anywhere near wrong, but he is too impatient and quite loose with some facts in order to prove himself right. In short, he let's himself down for such a clever chap. You're playing a little loose yourself here Kermy. While it's true that objections to the wars came from all sides. It was even remotely even was it? A minority of right wingers had an issue with war while many on the left did and pretty much most liberals. So there it isn't unreasonable to highlight that opposition was generally from the left of politics. I would say your second point goes against my memory of those events. I remember a lot of idiots saying the word 'oil' every three seconds.....Despite America never having a shortage....Also look at where their energy policies have gone.....Idiots then, idiots now. The government of Saud....with all their serious failings did not support the people behind the 9/11 attacks. Afghanistan did and harboured them.....It's a non point. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 15 3.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 2.43pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 2.06pm

[Link]

Just seen this article which goes to the heart of the debate regarding the hypocrisy related to this subject.

1)The march included people from all walks and all political divides so he was barking up the wrong tree there.

You're playing a little loose yourself here Kermy.

While it's true that objections to the wars came from all sides. It was even remotely even was it? A minority of right wingers had an issue with war while many on the left did and pretty much most liberals.

So there it isn't unreasonable to highlight that opposition was generally from the left of politics.

I would say your second point goes against my memory of those events. I remember a lot of idiots saying the word 'oil' every three seconds.....Despite America never having a shortage....Also look at where their energy policies have gone.....Idiots then, idiots now.

The government of Saud....with all their serious failings did not support the people behind the 9/11 attacks. Afghanistan did and harboured them.....It's a non point.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Kermit8 Hevon 22 Nov 15 3.12pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 3.01pm Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 2.43pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 2.06pm [Link] Just seen this article which goes to the heart of the debate regarding the hypocrisy related to this subject. He's an interesting character that Nick Cohen chap and so nearly gets it right in the article but, as in the past, he 'jumps the shark' with base emotion occasionally overriding the truth to get his point across. For example, he was pro the Iraq War and condemned the march against it and blackened the protesters saying they were just opposing the overthrow of a murderous dictator. He said this to slag off the elements of the left he finds nauseating. 1)The march included people from all walks and all political divides so he was barking up the wrong tree there. 2)It (the protest) was more against the future mess that was going to be visited upon the region and the fact that the neo-cons had lied to associate the country with 9/11 whilst ignoring the fact that 19 of hijackers were Saudi. He is a man with an opinion, and he is not anywhere near wrong, but he is too impatient and quite loose with some facts in order to prove himself right. In short, he let's himself down for such a clever chap. You're playing a little loose yourself here Kermy. While it's true that objections to the wars came from all sides. It was even remotely even was it? A minority of right wingers had an issue with war while many on the left did and pretty much most liberals. So there it isn't unreasonable to highlight that opposition was generally from the left of politics. I would say your second point goes against my memory of those events. I remember a lot of idiots saying the word 'oil' every three seconds.....Despite America never having a shortage....Also look at where their energy policies have gone.....Idiots then, idiots now. The government of Saud....with all their serious failings did not support the people behind the 9/11 attacks. Afghanistan did and harboured them.....It's a non point. That wasn't my point. I was saying he was besmirching their actual reason for being there. Nobody thought Saddam wasn't worthy of being deposed. It was the method that was contentious. Saudi Government had/have turned a blind eye to the terrorists over the decades and to the saudi private funds helping them. They both adhere to more extreme versions of Sunni Islam. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 22 Nov 15 3.12pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 3.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 2.43pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 2.06pm

[Link]

Just seen this article which goes to the heart of the debate regarding the hypocrisy related to this subject.

1)The march included people from all walks and all political divides so he was barking up the wrong tree there.

You're playing a little loose yourself here Kermy.

So there it isn't unreasonable to highlight that opposition was generally from the left of politics.

I would say your second point goes against my memory of those events. I remember a lot of idiots saying the word 'oil' every three seconds.....Despite America never having a shortage....Also look at where their energy policies have gone.....Idiots then, idiots now.

The government of Saud....with all their serious failings did not support the people behind the 9/11 attacks. Afghanistan did and harboured them.....It's a non point.

That wasn't my point. I was saying he was besmirching their actual reason for being there. Nobody thought Saddam wasn't worthy of being deposed. It was the method that was contentious.

Saudi Government had/have turned a blind eye to the terrorists over the decades and to the saudi private funds helping them. They both adhere to more extreme versions of Sunni Islam.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 15 3.36pm
Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 3.12pm That wasn't my point. I was saying he was besmirching their actual reason for being there. Nobody thought Saddam wasn't worthy of being deposed. It was the method that was contentious. It's true though Kermy that without the war Saddam or one of his sons would be running Iraq now....Killing Kurds and opponents in their thousands year on year...With no prospect of change. Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 3.12pm Saudi Government had/have turned a blind eye to the terrorists over the decades and to the saudi private funds helping them. They both adhere to more extreme versions of Sunni Islam. I'd agree with you here......It is a problem and they have played a game that's hurt us and even rebounded on them. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2015 6.48pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 15 3.36pm

Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 3.12pm

That wasn't my point. I was saying he was besmirching their actual reason for being there. Nobody thought Saddam wasn't worthy of being deposed. It was the method that was contentious.

It's true though Kermy that without the war Saddam or one of his sons would be running Iraq now....Killing Kurds and opponents in their thousands year on year...With no prospect of change.

Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 3.12pm

Saudi Government had/have turned a blind eye to the terrorists over the decades and to the saudi private funds helping them. They both adhere to more extreme versions of Sunni Islam.

I'd agree with you here......It is a problem and they have played a game that's hurt us and even rebounded on them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2015 6.48pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Nov 15 3.48pm
I'm going off the point really but I was in trouble today for saying: 'I don't remember people singing 'God Save the Queen' after the London bombings of the IRA campaigns'. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Nov 15 3.48pm

I'm going off the point really but I was in trouble today for saying: 'I don't remember people singing 'God Save the Queen' after the London bombings of the IRA campaigns'.

Red and Blue Army!

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Kermit8 Hevon 22 Nov 15 3.53pm
Quote ASCPFC at 22 Nov 2015 3.48pm I'm going off the point really but I was in trouble today for saying: 'I don't remember people singing 'God Save the Queen' after the London bombings of the IRA campaigns'. We weren't so sensitive and pc in those days. Just got on with things. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 22 Nov 15 3.53pm

Quote ASCPFC at 22 Nov 2015 3.48pm

I'm going off the point really but I was in trouble today for saying: 'I don't remember people singing 'God Save the Queen' after the London bombings of the IRA campaigns'.

We weren't so sensitive and pc in those days. Just got on with things.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Nov 15 5.02pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site. Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it. I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were. A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run. While I agree that the state must protect itself from the feckless and those who hate it or wish to abuse it...collectively not a small number....It's also true that we need to tend to our own....Good, bad or indifferent. You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home. The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Nov 15 5.02pm

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Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm

Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site.

Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it.

I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were.

A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run.

While I agree that the state must protect itself from the feckless and those who hate it or wish to abuse it...collectively not a small number....It's also true that we need to tend to our own....Good, bad or indifferent.

You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home.

The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Nov 15 5.28pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site. Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it. I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were. A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run. While I agree that the state must protect itself from the feckless and those who hate it or wish to abuse it...collectively not a small number....It's also true that we need to tend to our own....Good, bad or indifferent. You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home. The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions. Oh dear.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Nov 15 5.28pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm

Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site.

Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it.

I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were.

A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run.

You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home.

The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions.

Oh dear.

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Kermit8 Hevon 22 Nov 15 5.37pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site. Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it. I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were. A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run. While I agree that the state must protect itself from the feckless and those who hate it or wish to abuse it...collectively not a small number....It's also true that we need to tend to our own....Good, bad or indifferent. You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home. The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions. oh, dear x 2 Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 22 Nov 15 5.37pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm

Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site.

Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it.

I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were.

A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run.

You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home.

The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions.

oh, dear x 2

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Nov 15 6.10pm
Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 5.37pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site. Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it. I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were. A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run. While I agree that the state must protect itself from the feckless and those who hate it or wish to abuse it...collectively not a small number....It's also true that we need to tend to our own....Good, bad or indifferent. You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home. The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions. oh, dear x 2 How surprising that you should "Oh dear" me. I have dared to be honest.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Nov 15 6.10pm

Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 5.37pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm

Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site.

Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it.

I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were.

A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run.

You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home.

The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions.

oh, dear x 2

How surprising that you should "Oh dear" me.

I have dared to be honest.

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lankygit Lincoln 22 Nov 15 6.18pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 6.10pm Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 5.37pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site. Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it. I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were. A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run. While I agree that the state must protect itself from the feckless and those who hate it or wish to abuse it...collectively not a small number....It's also true that we need to tend to our own....Good, bad or indifferent. You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home. The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions. oh, dear x 2 How surprising that you should "Oh dear" me. I have dared to be honest. Conjecture is not fact. What is honest about your post is that you probably believe it to be both true and prominent. Is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour? [Link]
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lankygit

Lincoln 22 Nov 15 6.18pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 6.10pm

Quote Kermit8 at 22 Nov 2015 5.37pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 22 Nov 2015 2.24pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 1.43pm

Poverty is relative. All of us are poor to someone I'm sure. Too much self righteous bleeding heart whining on this site.

Everything is relative, especially when you wish to dismiss it.

I'm not in poverty. But I come from a family who were.

A government isn't just for the successes in society. That was how the Victoria era was run.

You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home.

The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions.

oh, dear x 2

How surprising that you should "Oh dear" me.

I have dared to be honest.

Conjecture is not fact. What is honest about your post is that you probably believe it to be both true and prominent.

Is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour? [Link]

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 15 6.44pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home. The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions. You can't compare Victorian poverty with current levels no that's right but the reason for this is that attitudes changed due to the sheer terrible injustice of it. But time breeds indifference. I've noticed that the 'I'm alright Jack, not my problem' movement have gained more strength as the decades passed. Don't get me wrong....The feckless are still feckless and wasters and fifth columnists create division and resentment.....I suppose I don't believe that closing the door on these problems is an answer. I believe that a better family is one that looks to sort its own problems out.....And a nation is nothing if not an extension of that That's what I believe anyway....For what's its worth. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2015 6.45pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 15 6.44pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 22 Nov 2015 5.02pm

You cannot compare Victorian poverty with current levels. That is the point. People who visit food banks are probably lighting a fag on the way and visiting the off license on the way home.

The other day there was outrage because it was suggested that the hard up should cancel their paid TV subscriptions.

You can't compare Victorian poverty with current levels no that's right but the reason for this is that attitudes changed due to the sheer terrible injustice of it.

But time breeds indifference.
I've noticed that the 'I'm alright Jack, not my problem' movement have gained more strength as the decades passed.

Don't get me wrong....The feckless are still feckless and wasters and fifth columnists create division and resentment.....I suppose I don't believe that closing the door on these problems is an answer.

I believe that a better family is one that looks to sort its own problems out.....And a nation is nothing if not an extension of that

That's what I believe anyway....For what's its worth.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2015 6.45pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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