The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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Pussay Patrol  17 Jan 19 8.21am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I know. It was a mistake which they can correct. If they truly believe, as most do, that we will be better off if we stay in, then they have a duty to correct. Laws can be changed. Acts can be repealed. People and MPs can change their minds. Nothing lasts forever and if it ought to be changed and can be changed then change it must be Nail on the head In my line of work I have to do what's in the best interests of our company and provide value, sometimes that might involve going back on previous agreements or breaking contracts, that's business, I wouldn't just blindly follow a contract if it meant we lost money People who just bang on about trust in democracy, betrayal etc are just blinkered
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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 Badger11  Beckenham 17 Jan 19 8.44am |
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Mrs May has now met with all of the other party leaders apart from Labour. As I said last night Corbyn is now looking like someone who is putting himself before country by setting pre-conditions. When Corbyn met with the terrorists did ask them to stop killing people for the day whilst they talked? Yet he can't bring himself to just go and have a conversation with the PM on the single most important issue that is currently facing this country. He also made a mistake in calling the vote of confidence last night. He must have known that the DUP would back Mrs May. It would have made more sense to hold off until after Mrs May presented Plan B to Parliament. If the DUP and some of the Tory rebels heard something they didn't like there is a possibility that they would have sat on their hands when the vote was called. This morning i have heard a number of Corbyn supporters trying to spin what he said last night and putting the blame on Mrs May but its not working. Unless you are a firm Labour supporter it was obvious what he said and that he wasn't budging. I assume that some in the Labour party will be trying to tell him he must back down because its looks terrible to the nation. As for Mrs May plan B I smell a sell out with postponing Brexit and a 2nd referendum now looking more likely. Edited by Badger11 (17 Jan 2019 8.46am)
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 17 Jan 19 8.54am |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Nail on the head In my line of work I have to do what's in the best interests of our company and provide value, sometimes that might involve going back on previous agreements or breaking contracts, that's business, I wouldn't just blindly follow a contract if it meant we lost money People who just bang on about trust in democracy, betrayal etc are just blinkered The country is not a 9 to 5 business that’ll run for as long as the owner lives or be sold off to someone you’ve no idea what they’ll with it or move it to. A country lasts for millennia. Many generations to come and many (the majority) don’t like what the EU is doing and how it is acting. We’ve never signed up for any of this. Just think about that.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 17 Jan 19 9.06am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Mrs May has now met with all of the other party leaders apart from Labour. As I said last night Corbyn is now looking like someone who is putting himself before country by setting pre-conditions. When Corbyn met with the terrorists did ask them to stop killing people for the day whilst they talked? Yet he can't bring himself to just go and have a conversation with the PM on the single most important issue that is currently facing this country. He also made a mistake in calling the vote of confidence last night. He must have known that the DUP would back Mrs May. It would have made more sense to hold off until after Mrs May presented Plan B to Parliament. If the DUP and some of the Tory rebels heard something they didn't like there is a possibility that they would have sat on their hands when the vote was called. This morning i have heard a number of Corbyn supporters trying to spin what he said last night and putting the blame on Mrs May but its not working. Unless you are a firm Labour supporter it was obvious what he said and that he wasn't budging. I assume that some in the Labour party will be trying to tell him he must back down because its looks terrible to the nation. As for Mrs May plan B I smell a sell out with postponing Brexit and a 2nd referendum now looking more likely. Fully agree on all points and I couldn’t understand the no confidence vote either. Nobody wants to head Brexit and nobody right of centre wants Corbyn and they’re the majority. Corbyn is an oddball and that’s why you get his delusional behaviour that doesn’t consider things logically and strategically and why he really shouldn’t be PM. He’s a backbencher, not a leader, but America voted Trump (although I completely understand why) so it is possible we could end up with a truly incompetent PM before dealing with Brexit if students and protesters influence the country into voting a disaster waiting to happen in Corbyn.
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| Spiderman Horsham 17 Jan 19 9.10am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That it wasn't mentioned in the manifesto doesn't then make it binding! I am not arguing that both Tories and Labour haven't committed to respecting the referendum. They have but, in my opinion, they ought not have done because no referendum has the force of law in the UK. Only Parliaments can make the law and Parliaments can both change and change their mind. Just imagine that in the 2017 GE, that Labour had won more seats than the Tories and, with support from the SNP, formed a Government. It was close! Do you believe that that Parliament would have felt obliged to respect the referendum result? Corbyn would but all of the SNP would not and nor would many Labour members. As an exercise to find out the strength of opinion it might have been justified as it could then have been used as a negotiating tool to wrangle concessions on free movement. You really think the EU would have made concessions on this!! How could they? Surely Freedom of movement is enshrined in EU law
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 17 Jan 19 9.16am |
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Originally posted by npn
Would have agreed with you up until he became leader. Since then he has seemed totally out of his depth. Over the last couple of days he has come across as a total weasel - I have no real idea what his brexit plan is except "better than May", he keeps his mouth shut so he can't shoot himself in the foot, then looks for opportunities. Now he has turned down the chance for talks (despite the SNP et al buying in), I hope all the other parties proceed without him and let him whine about not having a voice later Spot on. Too immature to be leader. Tony Blair was a lot of things but at least he wasn’t an immature embarrassment and debated rather than just objecting without anything constructive, and how does he think dismissing no deal will help us or him negotiate? How does he think going in as a soft puppy is going to be any better than going in as someone who talks the tough talk but as soon as she’s in negotiating she’s following their script and agenda, which is exactly what he’ll end up doing and delivering. In time people will look back and cringe at Corbyn.
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| DANGERCLOSE london 17 Jan 19 9.17am |
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Originally posted by Rubin
Brexit is 'no deal'. Brexit means leaving the EU. Any form of deal that the EU will be willing to offer will result in is leaving in name only. Leave, and then negotiate. It won't be in either parties interests to put tarrifs on trade. After the remain and leave campaigns and debate leading up to the referendum, the government/media/EU cleverly played about with terms, and redefined what everyone understood as Brexit as 'no deal', and we've rerun the initial debate all over again. The EU are s***ting themselves about the prospect of a no deal, and the only reason we're in the diabolical position that we're currently in, is because the negations have been held by a May, a remainer, and a civil service also full of remainers. Edited by Rubin (16 Jan 2019 10.10pm) Agreed
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| Spiderman Horsham 17 Jan 19 9.18am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I don't see Europe as foreign anymore than I see Scotland or Wales as foreign. Evolution applies to everything and our horizons expanding are just part of that. The world has shrunk and we need to adjust to the changed environment or decline. I live in Cornwall and some here think those who live in Devon live in another country. Of course our interests aren't identical. Mine aren't the same as yours. There is though sufficient common ground to make it sensible to act together in many ways without anyone losing their personalities. Your comment hinted at xenophobia. It can be found elsewhere in this thread too. It's not just me that that thinks Brexit will be bad for us. Many, and I would say now it's most of us, do too. I have heard the most fervent anti-Europeans, who just seem to object on principle, say it will take 30 years for the UK to return to our current level. That makes no sense. In today's world 30 years is several lifetimes. I wouldn't be to sure on that.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 17 Jan 19 9.23am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I don't see Europe as foreign anymore than I see Scotland or Wales as foreign. Evolution applies to everything and our horizons expanding are just part of that. The world has shrunk and we need to adjust to the changed environment or decline. I live in Cornwall and some here think those who live in Devon live in another country. Of course our interests aren't identical. Mine aren't the same as yours. There is though sufficient common ground to make it sensible to act together in many ways without anyone losing their personalities. Your comment hinted at xenophobia. It can be found elsewhere in this thread too. It's not just me that that thinks Brexit will be bad for us. Many, and I would say now it's most of us, do too. I have heard the most fervent anti-Europeans, who just seem to object on principle, say it will take 30 years for the UK to return to our current level. That makes no sense. In today's world 30 years is several lifetimes. No it isn’t. If we were a struggling little country then I’d worry.
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| Pussay Patrol 17 Jan 19 9.33am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
No it isn’t. If we were a struggling little country then I’d worry. JRM said 50 years, is 50 years too long? I think it's hard to convince people to suffer 30-50 years of hardship. Our governments only ever plan short term to get reelected so it's complete s*** anyway
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| davenotamonkey 17 Jan 19 10.13am |
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Except it's not "50 years of hardship" is it? Why do you people insist on this hyperbole? He said No deal would boost the economy by £1.1tn: So why are you selectively quoting?
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| steeleye20 Croydon 17 Jan 19 10.28am |
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Speaking in Normandy not long before Britain's parliament voted 432-202 against the proposed divorce deal, the French leader said the British people had been manipulated into voting for something that didn't actually exist. Macron speaking recently. Brexit is an entire distraction from the problems facing the UK, deliberate. An entirely manufactured crisis. Started by Mrs Thatcher after Lawson's failure, it became policy to divert blame to the EU (this is in the cabinet minutes). It was so successful the UK have been living off it ever since, demonising the EU at every turn for its own failures, Why do you always say you must leave at any costs, yet you have no idea what is to follow, it is because you have been brain-washed. Looking back, when I re-visit all the disasters from Suez to Iraq and Libya, I was brain-washed too.
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