The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Stirlingsays  24 May 19 10.25am |
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Johnson for the win. The MPs who don't like it should learn to hold their noses.....they gave us May and before that a lot of them thought Cameron was the bee's knees.....They have some cheek to think they know better.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 24 May 19 11.15am |
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Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. This is May we are talking about. A skid-mark that has, so far, resisted every attempt to be washed away. There could well be a twist or turn to come in this. And yes, I am paranoid but she should, by any conventional measure of British politics, been gone a long, long time ago. If she does depart then it has to be Johnson. Only one who can keep Corbyn out. He won twice in London. He plays well with the punters, having that horrendous 'x' factor nonsense that seems to matter more in politics. Our sort of Trump moment. But I have no confidence in the fop-haired f***er what so ever.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Stirlingsays 24 May 19 11.21am |
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Originally posted by Matov
But I have no confidence in the fop-haired f***er what so ever. True, but at least we know he'll be shagging someone he shouldn't at some stage.....so at least he'll be good for a laugh. And I imagine he'll throw out all this intersectional BS that May has implemented.....that goes pretty much against all of the grass roots. I don't see Corbyn having a hope against Johnson.....a few jokes and a wink and he's toast. The Tories would be mad to overlook him.....Essentially it should be DWTGWH. Do What The Guardian Would Hate. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2019 11.25am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| blackheatheagle Beckenham 24 May 19 11.29am |
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I am honestly curious what BJ can bring when he obviously failed to take the leadership / ownership although he was backed with success of Brexit referendum and proposed nearly nothing meaningful during negotiations? Please don`t say Gove trapped him as it can not be an excuse for a leader profile. BJ, Gove and Andrea are the key persons who is responsible of giving the key to May.
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 Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 May 19 12.34pm |
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I am intrigued to know why anyone thinks it matters who the Tories choose when it's Parliament as a whole who now control the agenda. Being already split down the middle choosing a committed Brexiteer as PM would deepen and widen that split and not enable any kind of resolution. Add to that the fact that whatever is agreed still has to be accepted by the EU. Parliament clearly will not allow a "no-deal" Brexit to be passed and I cannot see the EU being goaded into forcing one through the disruptive tactics of disenchanted British MEPs. I think they will find ways of handling them. May's resignation therefore seems to me to be more likely to create more problems than it solves. As if we didn't have enough already. I suppose there is still a chance that the Tories might regain enough sense to put forward two middle of the road choices to the membership for them to make a final decision and not include a hardliner. A choice between Amber Rudd and Jeremy Hunt makes sense. Then someone could make another attempt to find a path through this mess. Include any hardliner against one of them and the conservative shires would choose the hardliner and the mess gets deeper as a consequence. I think though that it is now looking increasingly likely that Brexit will again have to be delayed until after a GE is held, which raises the spectre of a Corbyn led coalition, which is not a pretty sight to these eyes.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 24 May 19 12.41pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I am intrigued to know why anyone thinks it matters who the Tories choose when it's Parliament as a whole who now control the agenda. Being already split down the middle choosing a committed Brexiteer as PM would deepen and widen that split and not enable any kind of resolution. Add to that the fact that whatever is agreed still has to be accepted by the EU. Parliament clearly will not allow a "no-deal" Brexit to be passed and I cannot see the EU being goaded into forcing one through the disruptive tactics of disenchanted British MEPs. I think they will find ways of handling them. May's resignation therefore seems to me to be more likely to create more problems than it solves. As if we didn't have enough already. I suppose there is still a chance that the Tories might regain enough sense to put forward two middle of the road choices to the membership for them to make a final decision and not include a hardliner. A choice between Amber Rudd and Jeremy Hunt makes sense. Then someone could make another attempt to find a path through this mess. Include any hardliner against one of them and the conservative shires would choose the hardliner and the mess gets deeper as a consequence. I think though that it is now looking increasingly likely that Brexit will again have to be delayed until after a GE is held, which raises the spectre of a Corbyn led coalition, which is not a pretty sight to these eyes. Both 'Remainers', besides Amber Rudd could lose her seat in Hastings and Rye, only having a majority of 346.Conseervative membership is Pro-Brexit and to be presented with 2 'Remainers' would be 'Between 'A rock and a hard place' scenario. Edited by Willo (24 May 2019 12.44pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 May 19 1.03pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
Both 'Remainers', besides Amber Rudd could lose her seat in Hastings and Rye, only having a majority of 346.Conseervative membership is Pro-Brexit and to be presented with 2 'Remainers' would be 'Between 'A rock and a hard place' scenario. Edited by Willo (24 May 2019 12.44pm) I realise all of that but if the Tories choose a committed Brexiteer, as seems likely, then things will only get worse. I know that's what the membership want but they too are, in the main, hardline no-deal Brexiteers. My speculation was whether the Tory MPs would have sufficient foresight not to take that route so as to avoid the decimation that would probably follow it. As in all situations it is the job of the MP's to give their electorate what they need, which is not always what they want.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 24 May 19 1.39pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I realise all of that but if the Tories choose a committed Brexiteer, as seems likely, then things will only get worse. I know that's what the membership want but they too are, in the main, hardline no-deal Brexiteers. My speculation was whether the Tory MPs would have sufficient foresight not to take that route so as to avoid the decimation that would probably follow it. As in all situations it is the job of the MP's to give their electorate what they need, which is not always what they want. When it comes to party elections MPs and members will vote for the person they think is best for the party. I don't recall any conversation like this when Corbyn was running for the leadership. It is simply a matter for the party concerned we will get our chance at the next GE.
One more point |
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| blackheatheagle Beckenham 24 May 19 1.57pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I am intrigued to know why anyone thinks it matters who the Tories choose when it's Parliament as a whole who now control the agenda. Being already split down the middle choosing a committed Brexiteer as PM would deepen and widen that split and not enable any kind of resolution. Add to that the fact that whatever is agreed still has to be accepted by the EU. Parliament clearly will not allow a "no-deal" Brexit to be passed and I cannot see the EU being goaded into forcing one through the disruptive tactics of disenchanted British MEPs. I think they will find ways of handling them. May's resignation therefore seems to me to be more likely to create more problems than it solves. As if we didn't have enough already. I suppose there is still a chance that the Tories might regain enough sense to put forward two middle of the road choices to the membership for them to make a final decision and not include a hardliner. A choice between Amber Rudd and Jeremy Hunt makes sense. Then someone could make another attempt to find a path through this mess. Include any hardliner against one of them and the conservative shires would choose the hardliner and the mess gets deeper as a consequence. I think though that it is now looking increasingly likely that Brexit will again have to be delayed until after a GE is held, which raises the spectre of a Corbyn led coalition, which is not a pretty sight to these eyes. If a Brexiteer is chosen as PM (which should happen in 2016) it will help to test the idea that a Brexiteer PM is capable to deliver Brexit with a concrete plan for UK by avoiding any devastating damage to economy but opening promising gates for trading as promised before referendum. If he / she fails as well, that will probably end with GE. And after GE, If Brexit Party wins with a reasonable majority, there will be no-deal Brexit. If not, there will be no Brexit.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 May 19 2.11pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
When it comes to party elections MPs and members will vote for the person they think is best for the party. I don't recall any conversation like this when Corbyn was running for the leadership. It is simply a matter for the party concerned we will get our chance at the next GE. I think it's more nuanced than that. Some have the vision to see what the consequences are likely to be and vote tactically so as to achieve part of what they want rather than nothing. When Corbyn was elected there were plenty of people who pointed out the potential consequences of dragging Labour to the left, just as there are with the Tories dragging their party to the right. Without appealing to the masses in the middle neither party will ever command a majority for very long. Protest votes tend to evaporate very quickly. I agree though that this all is likely to drag onto a GE is held but whether it gets sorted then is far from sure.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 24 May 19 2.18pm |
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Deep down I think Wisbech is right on the process of the new Tory leadership. It’ll then go: New Tory leader. General election. Labour offers a referendum with remain as an option. We might remain. Tories either don’t or offer one without remain. Somehow hopefully the people will get Parliament to get this through somehow after so long of limited negative effects, and the realisation that most of the scaremongering was pure bollox might get through to even more people.
COYP |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 24 May 19 2.55pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I realise all of that but if the Tories choose a committed Brexiteer, as seems likely, then things will only get worse. I know that's what the membership want but they too are, in the main, hardline no-deal Brexiteers. My speculation was whether the Tory MPs would have sufficient foresight not to take that route so as to avoid the decimation that would probably follow it. As in all situations it is the job of the MP's to give their electorate what they need, which is not always what they want. I admit to being a hardline no-deal Brexiteer so I don't share the view about any long-term decimation that would follow Brexit on WTO rules.I admit there are very many Conservatives I know who are of the same opinion. Edited by Willo (24 May 2019 2.56pm)
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