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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 26 Jun 19 10.48am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You don't have to go as far back as the seventies either. In 1986 I moved to Newcastle Upon Tyne and the big supermarket that I went to had a choice of cabbage, carrots or swede for vegetables.

When I had lived there for about a year that same supermarket started selling courgettes and when I bought some the checkout cashier didn't know what they were and had to ask me

haha

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 26 Jun 19 10.49am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Haha. Look I think you get my point - we’re doing a pretty good job of ruining everything as a species so it’s ironic that we’re supposed to be the most ‘superior’

What a daft statement.

Humans are the victims of our own success as a species.
We have a finite planet and it was inevitable that our sheer numbers would eventually become our biggest problem.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 Jun 19 11.01am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Haha. Look I think you get my point - we’re doing a pretty good job of ruining everything as a species so it’s ironic that we’re supposed to be the most ‘superior’

Sure I do, just being mischievous.

The implied purpose of existence is gene survival, which in turn requires the struggle of social positioning for success to best propagate your genes....even if some people don't consciously realize.

So, in my view....I doubt that there is a species, that if they gained hegemony over Earth's resources wouldn't end up also gaining a similar bleak assessment.

There is little doubt that continued scientific progress in the hard sciences of physics, chemistry and biology have inherent and eventually probably fatal consequences due to Murphy's law.

Perhaps this self destructive inevitability is a filter and a form of universal law and thus why we haven't detected any signals from highly evolved alien civilizations. I don't believe that personally but it's a possibility.

Access to the resources that enable species level wide-spread destruction need to be ring fenced......How best to achieve that in a realistic manner?....that's the question.

I certainly think species eugenics is required.....if if were possible to enable resistance to gamma radiation and the varied toxins that are most fatal and contagious (though we already do that on a limited scale).....but I'm venturing into sci fi here and also any mention of 'eugenics' gets you labelled with the 'nazi' tag because basic lies are easier to spread about ideological foes than complicated truths.

Even though if this species is ever going to venture out into the stars and survive long term....resistance to the various high energy cell destroying radiations are essential.


Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2019 11.58am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 26 Jun 19 11.06am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Was that an aborted attempt at poetry? Also ‘superior’ mammal may be technically true but in reality it’s questionable

Not really as abort is in the meaning.
I put a very brief synopsis of how it actually is.
We as humans in our air breathing environment are the superior species.
End of.
Cruelty to animals is not acceptable and that does include halal.
That though is cultural and has been for eons.
I dont agree with it but it's difficult not to come into contact with it.
What exactly do you do with the billions of living animals we breed to eat if we all went veggie.
Umm
Yup kill me.
Very animal loving!

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 Jun 19 11.39am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I’m not entirely sure what class has to do with it. You can be working class and still want to eat decent meat. Similarly you can be working class and be affluent, to counter balance the implied reason for raising it in this context.

Of course you can, anyone who works is 'working class'. However, you know I'm talking on the cultural level.

Also, you know what class has to do with it.....wonger.

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

There is a reason expensive stuff is expensive, most of the time. My point is, much like Primark, Cocaine and a whole variety of things, there is often a massive ethical and in some cases health negative consequence to ridiculously cheap things. The old adage ‘too good to be true’ still holds water. Unless you’re on the poverty line there’s no reason to throw ethics and reason out the window.

A simple glance at Maslow's pyramid tells us that the less resources you have access to the less refined your concerns are likely to be.

In other words....if you're skint and worrying about paying the rent and energy bills....the quality of meat you are shoving down your neck takes a decidedly secondary position.


Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Of course life expectancy being low in the US isn’t about Chicken. That point wasn’t made. The general danger is it’s mission creep - lower standards in one area (resulting in increased profit) and soon enough we’ll be back in the 70s. And Lets not be too romantic about the 70s, which was a terrible decade, the food offerings were basic, diets were atrocious and most people’s idea of exotic food was either fish and chips or sprayable cheese.

There are always valid points about profiteering that works against the public interest...which is why we have regulation. The question is where should that regulation be set at....it's not an area I know much about.

The 70s was a let down compared to the 60s....Some hairdressers must have gone out of business....things marginally improved in the early to mid eighties before crashing down into our continuing spiral of cultural western decline.....but god knows I waffle about that enough as it is.

I like fish and chips....come on....you must eat basic stuff all the time! When was the last time you had beans on toast?


Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Cheap food can and is still of high quality. It just depends what you’re eating - fruit, veg, pulses, non processed items, don’t have to be expensive to be decent. But things like meat are a different story. It’s also the point that you simply don’t need to eat vast quantities of the s*** stuff. Eat less and better quality.

Also re. Top tier food - maybe at a commercial level but it’s always been available. It’s just more available now as people’s attitudes have changed and the market has cashed in.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (26 Jun 2019 10.16am)

I share your goal of a general idea that eating healthier is the better idea. I'm not of the view that cheap can be quality....not unless you're restricting yourself to a vegan type diet....and people need to feed families.

I'm also with the position of wanting an end to intensive farming both in the animal and land sense. Plenty of us are aware of how those in future generations will regard intensive farming.....However, without it humanity would still be hovering in the low millions.

Come the day when science allows us better methods we will transition. However this in of itself also has a human cost that would have to be carefully and fairly transitioned and handled......huh!...who am I kidding there.

We know that technologically and economically society isn't there yet to enable this vision on the kind of wider scales that many of us would like.....with us all eating quality nutrition.

Automation will get us there and it will be here faster than we realise...but we live in the here and now.....and for now, for better or worse, McDonald's isn't in danger.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2019 11.42am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 26 Jun 19 12.45pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What a daft statement.

Humans are the victims of our own success as a species.
We have a finite planet and it was inevitable that our sheer numbers would eventually become our biggest problem.

Not really. If we were as 'superior' and intelligent then we would be able to see past our own navels and work within our means.

Also again with the overpopulation angle – in contrast to your constant doomsday negativity population is forecast to top out at a controllable number before levelling or even declining. It is not an infinite upswing.

Paul R. Ehrlich was incorrect – and relying on thesis from the 70s is madness.

 


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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 26 Jun 19 1.03pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I share your goal of a general idea that eating healthier is the better idea. I'm not of the view that cheap can be quality....not unless you're restricting yourself to a vegan type diet....and people need to feed families.

I'm also with the position of wanting an end to intensive farming both in the animal and land sense. Plenty of us are aware of how those in future generations will regard intensive farming.....However, without it humanity would still be hovering in the low millions.

Come the day when science allows us better methods we will transition. However this in of itself also has a human cost that would have to be carefully and fairly transitioned and handled......huh!...who am I kidding there.

We know that technologically and economically society isn't there yet to enable this vision on the kind of wider scales that many of us would like.....with us all eating quality nutrition.

Automation will get us there and it will be here faster than we realise...but we live in the here and now.....and for now, for better or worse, McDonald's isn't in danger.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2019 11.42am)

Yes maslows pyramid – my point was that there is no biological need to eat meat every day regardless of income, so eat less and spend the money saved on better meat.

Depends what you regard as basic. I regard basic as 'basic ingredients' like vegetables, rice etc. Not cheap processed or high fat/salt stuff. If by basic you mean things like brans on toast and fish and chips? Incredibly rarely. I couldn't tell you the last time I ate beans on toast. Fish and chips, possibly in Lewes last year. It was that long ago. The only time I eat stuff like that is when you're ring fenced at events or, frankly, completely smashed at a stag weekend.

Eating well is not expensive – the basics (in my terminology) can be obtained freely and relatively cheaply. The difference is convenience vs. effort. And that's where the issues are.

Intensive farming is a massive issue. We'll probably be eating a combination of synthesised and natural food in a hundred years – food will always need to be mass produced and pace and scale so the issue has to be solved somehow. Also that approach is much more efficient than having live animals in the food chain. And efficiency means profit.

Agree on automation. McDonalds will always be here – will simply pivot depending on what the latest synthetic yet indistinguidables burger trends appear over the next few decades.

Anyway, BREXIT THREAD

However I'd like to point out this is the sort of debate that should flow from someone brining up chlorinated chicken, rather than just posting links and balling out the same old lazy flatfooted rhetoric.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 26 Jun 19 1.45pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Not really. If we were as 'superior' and intelligent then we would be able to see past our own navels and work within our means.

Also again with the overpopulation angle – in contrast to your constant doomsday negativity population is forecast to top out at a controllable number before levelling or even declining. It is not an infinite upswing.

Paul R. Ehrlich was incorrect – and relying on thesis from the 70s is madness.

Sigh.

The population will level out at around 20 billion In around 200 years. Not really good news.

Mankind has only known about the potential global effects of its advance for a few decades. Even with this knowledge, it's not like you can just press a button and fix it. There are many considerations in the real world.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 Jun 19 4.38pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Sigh.

The population will level out at around 20 billion In around 200 years. Not really good news.

Mankind has only known about the potential global effects of its advance for a few decades. Even with this knowledge, it's not like you can just press a button and fix it. There are many considerations in the real world.

People rightly worry about the middle east, Iran being the latest 'spin the wheel'. We worry about China's expansion and territory grabs far into the South China Sea. We worry about North Korea and a host of other potential flash points.

However population expansion is the elephant in the room....the human success story that is rarely raised.

It's a significant if indirect factor towards many of these problems.

We need the political will instead of technology to solve this particular problem....and unfortunately I don't see democracies managing to sell a one child policy.

And to be frank.....it isn't Europeans who need it.....They need the opposite policy.


Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2019 4.40pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 26 Jun 19 5.28pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

People rightly worry about the middle east, Iran being the latest 'spin the wheel'. We worry about China's expansion and territory grabs far into the South China Sea. We worry about North Korea and a host of other potential flash points.

However population expansion is the elephant in the room....the human success story that is rarely raised.

It's a significant if indirect factor towards many of these problems.

We need the political will instead of technology to solve this particular problem....and unfortunately I don't see democracies managing to sell a one child policy.

And to be frank.....it isn't Europeans who need it.....They need the opposite policy.


Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2019 4.40pm)

Precisely.

It is the root cause of almost every global problem.

We should sterilise people who have already had two children in Asia and Africa.

Also, If we had any sense in the West, we would allow people in third world country populations to die from natural causes, but instead we seek to kill off mosquitoes and send aid to places where the environment cannot sustain existing populations.
Of course, it would be considered callous and uncaring not to help but let's see how our ethics hold out when they are trying to avoid war, pestilence and global warming by coming over here and draining our country dry as well.

It has already begun.

We should take drastic action now to avoid the impending human disaster to come.

I await our fairy tale friends to come on and tell me that this disaster won't happen.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (26 Jun 2019 5.31pm)

 

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ChrisGC Flag Wantage 27 Jun 19 9.36am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Precisely.

It is the root cause of almost every global problem.

We should sterilise people who have already had two children in Asia and Africa.

Also, If we had any sense in the West, we would allow people in third world country populations to die from natural causes, but instead we seek to kill off mosquitoes and send aid to places where the environment cannot sustain existing populations.
Of course, it would be considered callous and uncaring not to help but let's see how our ethics hold out when they are trying to avoid war, pestilence and global warming by coming over here and draining our country dry as well.

It has already begun.

We should take drastic action now to avoid the impending human disaster to come.

I await our fairy tale friends to come on and tell me that this disaster won't happen.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (26 Jun 2019 5.31pm)

Sterilisation is a bit strong. History shoes that's a short road to mass termination.

Stop foreign aid, leave the middle East to work itself out, heavily tax chairty going abroad and implement a sensible immigration policy (including deportation of all non-citizens) and hey presto, the problem takes care of itself.


 

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View johnno42000's Profile johnno42000 Flag 27 Jun 19 10.05am Send a Private Message to johnno42000 Add johnno42000 as a friend

Logan's Run showed how to sort things out

jl.jpg Attachment: jl.jpg (58.51Kb)

 


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