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View sickboy's Profile sickboy Flag Deal or Croydon 19 Sep 19 5.55pm Send a Private Message to sickboy Add sickboy as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I wonder if you contravene the forum's rule 14 which includes "14.Do not use The Holmesdale Online's features in a manner that adversely affects the availability of its resources to other users (e.g. excessive shouting [use of all caps] or flooding [continuous posting of repetitive text or topics])."

I wouldn't mind betting that you've spouted on about representatives and not delegates at least fifty times in this thread until most of us are heartily sick of hearing it.

Maybe we can have a vote/referendum on it!

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 19 Sep 19 6.04pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

A YouGov survey shows that there is a majority of the population that shows that they aren't happy with MPs doing their own thing and would prefer a more direct democracy

[Link]

Imagine having a job where your employer pays your wages and you say, 'I'll do what I like'.

No, the people are ultimately sovereign and their wishes can't be divorced from their parliament like this clown pushes.

A certain type of elite needs a certain type of reckoning.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.16pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

It seems that our parliament housing representatives and not delegates is based on a speech that an MP made 250 years ago.

Based on, yes, just as it is based on the Magna Carta. This has though been confirmed many times since, notably by Winston Churchill and only this week in the submissions to our Supreme Court. It could be changed, but that's what we have right now.

The Brexit debacle has shown the population that this style of government is not what the populace want as we want MPs that represent what their voters want and not what the MP feels like doing.

Untrue. It has shown that some people feel that way.

The vast majority of us vote traditionally and in accordance with the party's manifesto and we expect that the MP that we elect will also vote in line with his party's manifesto. If he feels that he can't do that he should resign his seat and occasion a by election, standing as an independent if he so wishes but giving his constituents the chance to either agree with their representative or voting him out

You no more speak for the vast majority than I do! You speak for yourself. Unless and until we change the system Parliament speaks for us. Individual MPs are MPs first and owe their primary allegiance to their local electorate. All of them and not those in the party they happen to belong to. It's their decision as the local representative whether to resign if they find that they and their party no longer match. Parties can leave people just as quickly as people can leave parties. In fact parties change character much more frequently than people.

 


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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Online Flag 19 Sep 19 6.22pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I think it's neither.

It's much more likely that there is now greater public scrutiny of, and less deference to, public figures who in the past were regarded as our betters.

It's all society which has changed.

Are you saying they previously “got away” with the things which now get them suspended? If so that doesn’t speak well of the calibre of those entrusted to decide what’s best for the rest of us.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 19 Sep 19 6.22pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

I can't see Johnson being defeated here but it is unjust.

They are judging by the law, all written down, not our bonkers unwritten constitution.

It seems that 'what did we do last time' seems to be the constitution, but who knows.

Presumably a PM can just suspend a parliament whenever he feels like it.

Imagine how much all this circus is costing, no such justice would be available to you or I, you have to be stinking rich like the government with taxpayer funding, or Soros.

It seems that Johnson may well lose this after all.

What that actually means is unsure, but the principle that the PM can suspend parliamentary scrutiny by prorogation could well be practically over-turned.

Just a 'rigmarole' according to Johnson.


 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.25pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

A YouGov survey shows that there is a majority of the population that shows that they aren't happy with MPs doing their own thing and would prefer a more direct democracy

[Link]

Then all that is needed is for a Parliament to be elected that will change the system. Until then we have what we have.

Good luck with it. I suspect that once the full implications of such a change are identified, and the potential consequences explained that many, if not most, would quickly change their minds.

Right now there is an understandable tiredness with the whole situation and a need to apportion blame onto someone or something. Our system is an easy target and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Actually it isn't. Lurking behind the bushes are those who would like to become quasi dictators. As these could as easily come from the left as from the right we ought always to be careful what we wish for. Simon Jordan wasn't always a prat!

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.29pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Are you saying they previously “got away” with the things which now get them suspended? If so that doesn’t speak well of the calibre of those entrusted to decide what’s best for the rest of us.

From the little I have seen of some of the things that MPs used to get away with without anyone either knowing or being challenged I think that's right. The newspapers used to treat them with much more respect in the past and only attack those they saw as enemies and without TV or social media how would we know?

 


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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 19 Sep 19 6.31pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

It seems that Johnson may well lose this after all.

What that actually means is unsure, but the principle that the PM can suspend parliamentary scrutiny by prorogation could well be practically over-turned.

Just a 'rigmarole' according to Johnson.


I suppose it's a big deal to lefties.
Not really is it.
All it means is that if the government of any colour make a decision going forwards that they can be taken to court if someone doesnt like it.
I think mayor khant should be first in the box with decisions hes made.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Online Flag 19 Sep 19 6.37pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

From the little I have seen of some of the things that MPs used to get away with without anyone either knowing or being challenged I think that's right. The newspapers used to treat them with much more respect in the past and only attack those they saw as enemies and without TV or social media how would we know?

In that case people here are right to question their decency and public spiritedness. It shouldn’t take risk of exposure to ensure correct behaviour.

 

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jeeagles Flag 19 Sep 19 6.39pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Your cynicism is unworthy. Most MPs do a thoroughly decent and public spirited job.

I have a great deal of time for my own local MP, Sarah Newton who has helped me on occasions with problems. I also think Ben Bradshaw in Exeter is a sound guy but there are many more.

Ben Bradshaw is a nice guy.

Although my old uni housemate wrote him a letter once calling him a hypocrite for being homosexual and a godfather.

He was a fat, racist from norfolk who never got a round in and failed his degree.

He voted for UKIP and leave.

People like him make me wish remain won.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.45pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Of course the people are ultimately sovereign. No-one can argue with that fact.

It's how that sovereignty works in a Parliamentary democratic system which is so often misunderstood.

We exercise our sovereignty every time we go to vote in a general election. During that process we transfer it to those we elect to represent us and take decisions on our behalf. We could change that if we wanted, but that's what we have now.

The Parliament that is formed by the 650 representatives can decide to directly consult the people on important issues if they so choose but they cannot, even if they wanted to, avoid their responsibility of taking the final decision. That's just the way it is. When we have such a divided nation and an equally divided Parliament problems are inevitable. Which is why I don't want any more referendums. They mislead people and build expectations that cannot be delivered. I only want GEs and then Parliament to take decisions, hopefully on constitutional issues solely on a free vote, secret ballot basis. MPs should be free of pressure and use only their consciences when making such critical judgements. In my opinion, of course.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 19 Sep 19 6.54pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Well, come 31st of October an expectation, that respects the referendum result in some way, will be delivered.

If it isn't, I expect things to get spicy.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Sep 2019 6.56pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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